Hawk & Badger Railroad Forum

Personally I don't think the 800k goal for limited content is unreasonable, if you consider that Train Fever went for less money but turned out to be a crappy result. The 800k sounds to me like exactly what it is said to be: what it will realistically cost to get the job done to a high and satisfying standard. The team that has been assembled certainly has the background and experience to do the job. A realistic estimate should be reassuring rather than worrying.

But yes, some more eye candy would probably help with marketing the concept, assuming they have the time and income to build the required eye candy before getting more funding.

I agree the website header art does look a bit cartoonish. Something more photorealistic may help people's perception of the game. The cartoonish look sort of gives the feeling that it's just going to be a toy for kids, instead of a really awesome toy for big kids. In other words, if the header art is "serious" then people may take the project more seriously.

Onto the game time.
what is the the earliest possible 'Year-0' game-year?. will it be 1829 like in RT3 (the year Liverpool & Manchester Raiway inagurated) ? or in the year the first colliery railroad appears anywhere in England? (around 1810s I think) or in the year that draft animals are the only prime movers? (like Swansea & Mumbles Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swansea_a ... es_Railway)?

What will the earliest locomotive be? is it Pennydarren? Stephenson's 'pre-rockets'? The Rocket? or the Planet? or Grasshopper vertical boiler engine?

Now I'm looking like a bit of an idiot. After me saying the "realistic" costing should be reassuring, they have gone and changed it on the KS page. When the KS page first went live there was a graphic showing a horizontal progression from 800k to 1.3m, to 1.8m, to a final stage of 2.3 million. The 1.3 million stage was defined as "full release", which I presumed to mean "all game functionality done, with extra content to come later".

The original graphic has now been replaced with one that shows a vertical progression from 800k to 950k to 1.3m to a final stage at 1.8 million. This new graphic makes it clear that game functionality won't be all done until the $1.8 million stage, and apparently all the extra content (including Euro stuff) will now be done by the same stage. So in the space of a few days since the KS launch, the asking price for finished functionality appears to have gone up by half a million bucks, while the asking price for all the extra content appears to have come down by half a million bucks.

This gives the impression that the original proposal was not at all accurately costed, despite the claims made at the time, and that numbers are just being pulled out of a hat. I don't doubt the ability of the team to do the required coding and artwork, and I don't doubt their desire to do the right thing, but the costing and roadmap should have been thoroughly sorted before going public. Honestly, chopping and changing like this is not a good look.

For those that haven't been looking at the kickstarter page, they added an update with a short video of a train going around a turn. The video has no sound, but you can hear they were messaged on steam while recording the video.

I looked but I didn't see that video.

Try this link: http://kck.st/1JOX9RH

That link worked.
I guess I'm just old fashioned. To me the graphics are too much for a strategy game. Game play will have to be sacrificed for that level of detail. Wait and see. Otherwise you would need a super computer to play it.
I think even RT3 sacrificed some game play elements for pretty eye candy.

Nah. RT3 was coded to run on first gen Pentiums with 256 kB of RAM. Any halfway decent modern box can run it without even trying. You won't have to sacrifice gameplay to get better graphics.

Better graphics is a relative term.
One man's trash is another man's gold.

Ya' know, I really think I should stay out of this discussion, since I won't be buying or playing Rails & Riches anyway. I'll turn this over to those interested.

Well, if you want RT3 to look rougher it's really easy to drop the top LOD from the models.

Viconius, I looked at the video of the train. I realize that it is a very early preview, but it reminded me a little too much of Railroads! I have read many comments about that game crashing (literally as well) and burning. May I suggest that you consider addressing how your game will be different. Perhaps that game is what many of the younger gamers will use as their point of reference. Maybe some of those who were disappointed by that game would also get on board.

Don't know if you have already, but youtubers who have played RT3 in the past may be worth approaching at some stage. Don't know any myself, but an idea to help you get more coverage.

A guy that goes by the name of quill18 on You Tube is probably the best known. He has some great videos.
He's sent a lot of people to this site.

RulerofRails wrote:Viconius, I looked at the video of the train. I realize that it is a very early preview, but it reminded me a little too much of Railroads! I have read many comments about that game crashing (literally as well) and burning. May I suggest that you consider addressing how your game will be different. Perhaps that game is what many of the younger gamers will use as their point of reference. Maybe some of those who were disappointed by that game would also get on board.

Don't know if you have already, but youtubers who have played RT3 in the past may be worth approaching at some stage. Don't know any myself, but an idea to help you get more coverage.

yes it looks much like Sid Meier's Railroads . more works are needed to make differences and this includes different bridges, trestles and viaduct choices like RT3 (with TWO different STEEL BRIDGES and concrete bridges, one is cast at sight made for High Speed Trains.. like this one)




And also this one seen in Lampang province. Thailand.


http://img.kapook.com/image/Travel_1/X10113443-107.jpg
^ The famous Tha Chompoo bridge in Lampang. this 'historic site' renovation appears to follow the PRR Horseshoe curve pattern.

And don't forget about 'wye bridges' like this one

Hawk wrote:A guy that goes by the name of quill18 on You Tube is probably the best known. He has some great videos.
He's sent a lot of people to this site.

I can't agree more with Hawk on this !
I have myself streamed a few hours of RT3 but I don't have quill18's audience ^^

What's your YouTube username? Same as here?

One of the comments from the Kickstarter page:

IF this doesn't end up taking off, what are your plans for the future? I think it's fair to say that a lot of people want this even if they're not aware it exists yet.

I think the last sentence is probably true. Getting enough publicity to raise the necessary cash is going to be critical. IF the cash can be raised and the game built to a high standard, I can see it being popular. Lots of kids (of all ages) love trains.

That's probably true. They seemed to have been in a rush to get the kickstarter out there and going before developing the PR for it. Guess there's always a second chance with another KS campaign after more PR is out there. They still don't have the forums on their own page up.

If an old game like Elite can get some funding and put out Elite Dangerous, I would think there has to be funding out there somewhere for a railroad game.

Ok, so they've called the Kickstarter off just a minute ago, and are going to look at other avenues. Makes sense, given the way things were going.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/co ... ts/1262699

I like how they're still determined to get the thing running by hook or by crook. I'll defo be following their progress.

I'm already thinking that by the time they get this game ready for public access I should have several good loco models stashed in Blender. No reason why they couldn't be used for R&R too, if the export problem can be sorted.

Hey guys, been a little while. We're still doing work as we can while trying to find other funding for Rails & Riches. Darrin continues to add new things to our proof of concept... it isn't a demo still. It's all encouraging while the finance is still discouraging.

KS was clearly not a success, but on the upside we learned a few things which are not as obvious until you've done the deed, so to speak. If we approach KS for another go, it will be with a different mind set and not just more time or more things to see. I do really appreciate the comments here, pro and con; as well as specific thoughts and suggestions. One of the few places I think I could have expected to get such feedback. Thanks!

With that in mind, I'm still confident doing this game would be a good thing and should be done. In fact, probably more so than when we started. So, again the failure to connect with the KS still resulted in knowledge and confidence. I'm sure some of you here will understand, it's an old person thing!

Hopefully, I'll be able to come back here some day and say it's a GO! Till then, thanks again for you support guys.

I wish you guys all the luck in the world Franz.

Keep us informed.