Ireland

[Elliott]

Apologies if there is already a thread on this Coast to Coast expansion scenario, but I couldn't find it using the forum's search function.

I've seen posts saying this map is really easy, and to be fair, it looked like it would be, but in playing it, I have come across a bug of some sort.

I initially noticed that the game's briefing asks you to haul wool and grain, but the journal talks about hauling clothing and alcohol! I went into the editor and saw that the actual cargo to be hauled according to the event screen are the clothing and alcohol, so I edited the briefing to reflect this, changing absolutely nothing else, and then saved over the original Ireland map.

I started again, started hauling the clothing and alcohol... and noticed a problem. It is not correctly counting the haulage! I moved one cargo of clothing and it counted it up, but then by the end of the first year, I had moved apparently 0. I also moved one alcohol in this time and it didn't count. Furthermore, into the new year, when I moved 2 more clothing, it said I had moved 1 clothing and 3 alcohol!

What's going on? Am I being affected by the AI player perhaps? Or has my little edit somehow screwed things up? Has the fact that I bought a textile mill at the start of the game caused some problem?

[Moggie]

I've come across the same bug. Being a lazy **stard I didn't open the map in the editor and moved to the next scenario instead.

[Hawk]

You're probably getting a taste of how RT3 counts. If you haul less than a full load, the game rounds that load off to the nearest full number. If you hauled 4 tenths of a load, the game rounds that off to 0. If you haul 6 tenths of a load it rounds it off to 1.

You might be interested in trying the Ireland map here in the archives. Steve (Mobious) Lorenz did some adjusting on the default scenario and it's available here.

I'd also be careful about making changes to a map, then overwriting the existing map. For one, if the change doesn't work you have to remember what you changed.
Also, if you start overwriting a map with changes, the coloring on the map will start to degrade.
Any time you make changes to a map it's always best to save it with a new name. Even if it's just adding a 1, 2, 3, etc after the original name.

[Blackhawk]

You're probably getting a taste of how RT3 counts. If you haul less than a full load, the game rounds that load off to the nearest full number. If you hauled 4 tenths of a load, the game rounds that off to 0. If you haul 6 tenths of a load it rounds it off to 1.

Are you sure about that? I thought the game counted the tenths and never rounded up, only down. When you bring in only a half load, the ledger will still show 0, even though it was .6 or greater since a train won't haul less than .6 of a cargo. If I brought in .8 or 80% of a load multiple times it would show 0 [actually 0.8], 1 [1.6], 2 [2.4], 3 [3.2], 4 [4.0], 4 [4.8].

[Hawk]

You might be right BH. I was just going by memory and I should know better than that.

[Elliott]

You're probably getting a taste of how RT3 counts. If you haul less than a full load, the game rounds that load off to the nearest full number. If you hauled 4 tenths of a load, the game rounds that off to 0. If you haul 6 tenths of a load it rounds it off to 1.

You might be interested in trying the Ireland map here in the archives. Steve (Mobious) Lorenz did some adjusting on the default scenario and it's available here.

I'd also be careful about making changes to a map, then overwriting the existing map. For one, if the change doesn't work you have to remember what you changed.
Also, if you start overwriting a map with changes, the coloring on the map will start to degrade.
Any time you make changes to a map it's always best to save it with a new name. Even if it's just adding a 1, 2, 3, etc after the original name.

Well I didn't think you COULD haul 4/10 of a load, because the game wouldn't take it. Maybe I'll have a look at Mobious' map then. Seems a shame that most of the Coast to Coast Expansion maps contain catalogues of errors.

I thought it would be okay, because ALL i did was change the briefing, and as far as I am aware, nothing is linked to that right? So I couldn't see how I could mess anything up...

Are you sure about that? I thought the game counted the tenths and never rounded up, only down. When you bring in only a half load, the ledger will still show 0, even though it was .6 or greater since a train won't haul less than .6 of a cargo. If I brought in .8 or 80% of a load multiple times it would show 0 [actually 0.8], 1 [1.6], 2 [2.4], 3 [3.2], 4 [4.0], 4 [4.8].

Thanks for that explanation Blackhawk, but that still doesn't explain why it counted 1 cargo, then it disappeared back to 0!

[Blackhawk]

You might be right BH. I was just going by memory and I should know better than that.

I think it's just TM which displays 0.1-0.5 as 0 and 0.6-1.0 load as 1 in the industry recipe requirements. Most other things count the tenths behind the scenes. Although lately my experience is largely only with TM so maybe I am incorrect.

Thanks for that explanation Blackhawk, but that still doesn't explain why it counted 1 cargo, then it disappeared back to 0!

Well I decided I'd take a look at the map. There are very few events. I forgot how few events were in some of the original RT3 maps and the expansion pack maps. I would go back into the editor and change the Status event, to only test against the on screen company, and on screen player only. And maybe even change it to not test against territories.

Most likely it was showing the AI company's results rather than your own.

[Elliott]

You might be right BH. I was just going by memory and I should know better than that.

I think it's just TM which displays 0.1-0.5 as 0 and 0.6-1.0 load as 1 in the industry recipe requirements. Most other things count the tenths behind the scenes. Although lately my experience is largely only with TM so maybe I am incorrect.

Thanks for that explanation Blackhawk, but that still doesn't explain why it counted 1 cargo, then it disappeared back to 0!

Well I decided I'd take a look at the map. There are very few events. I forgot how few events were in some of the original RT3 maps and the expansion pack maps. I would go back into the editor and change the Status event, to only test against the on screen company, and on screen player only. And maybe even change it to not test against territories.

Most likely it was showing the AI company's results rather than your own.

Thanks, I'll try that and let you know how I get on!

[Elliott]

Reporting back to say that did the trick! I actually forgot to not test against territories, but it worked just testing against on screen company and player.

Annoyingly, the game doesn't test for medals until the end of the game, so by the time that came swinging around, I had double the industry profits and quadruple the clothes and alcohol haulage. But gave me an excuse to build loads of track while I waited I suppose.

Thanks for your help Blackhawk!

[MisterHinton]

Blackhawk is entirely right, but I don't think RT3 is doing a "rounding calculation" per se; I'm thinking it's just a display truncation of the integer (0.9= 0. 3.2=3.) Somewhat nerve-wracking in some scenarios- like waiting for that 2 grain to kick-in the 75 grand in the Trans-Siberian, for example. It would be great for Trainmaster if Ned could figure out a fractional display code overwriting a display integer reading "0", but unfortunately, I suspect it would be a l-o-t of work.

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for your help Blackhawk!

No problem Elliott, glad I could help.

Blackhawk is entirely right, but I don't think RT3 is doing a "rounding calculation" per se; I'm thinking it's just a display truncation of the integer (0.9= 0. 3.2=3.)

For the purposes of TM's industry display it does round up or down. But for the purposes of haulage counts/displays yes it's a truncation in the display, but it still remembers the exact amount of cargo.

My biggest issue with only displaying the integer is in haulage goals where time is of the essence and you don't know if you can let the train leave with just 50% of that load, or 70% of the load, or if you need a full load.

I think Ned looked at trying to find a way for the numbers to appear with decimal points, but it was hard coded into the game so there would be no easy fix for it. So indeed it would require a lot of work.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Elliot,

I ran into the same problem as most players, especially when we are new to the game, that Blackhawk, Hawk, etc are basically correct with the numbers system used in RT3. It came to me as a surprise with a scenario which had a "haul" requirement, missing the quota by """1""". Believe it was the NS Corridor. Anyway, since then I use a "backup" useage, especially near the quota being filled, to "add" 1 commodity ""more"" than what I need to fill the quota.

While making a haul during the game, I will check the Game Status, to see the total number of which is being credited, and then to periodically checking the commodity which is enroute. Just put the game on pause, and use the cursor/pointer to the "cars" being hauled. It will indicate the % in each. If the is less than .5, in a consisst of say 5 loads, as a back up for the rest of the game, I will increase the consists to 6 loads, so that I don't have to micromange it for a time, and watching the total in the Game Status. It is all part of the game and strategy. Good Luck.

[Loco65]

Hello, for me it's just the opposite. I'm receiving credits while not hauling cargo.
I started with a Brewery and 2 stations and no trains in first year but I connected to the other railroad. In 7 years both cloth and alcohol requirements were met with only 4 trains running !!

However I'm having troubles with Industry profits. My businesses are generating huge profits but I only get credit for a mere 5-10% of total profit. How come ? Buying all shares does not seem to help.
Total industry profit 'till 1873 $ 7,137,000 but game status only show $ 464,818. Very dissappointing.
I have version 1.05 installed, my OS is Windows 10

I hope you can give me some pointers.

Totally addicted again.

[Gumboots]

I can't remember all the details, but I do remember this scenario is buggy. For instance, the cargoes the briefing tells you to haul aren't the same cargoes that are coded into the event for setting the medals. Even if you meet the targets shown in the briefing, you still won't get a win.

With the industry thing, are you sure you're not looking at the industry revenue, and comparing that with profits in the ledger? Each industry has a bottom line that shows profit, and it's always a lot less than revenue.

[Loco65]

Thanks Gumboots,
well uh, I'm an accountant and money is my thing.

At the end of 1883 I have an accumulated profit from Industry of almost $ 23.000k (Income Statement). My first brewery has revenues of $24.000k with a profit of $ 7.400k alone (Brewery popup). Still briefing shows only $ 1.447k in total.
If only I had my notes from 10 years ago. I know there was something special about this scenario but I cannot remember what. I have started to buy as many industry buildings as I can, but profits do not seem to rise accordingly. I keep fiddling and trying. Hopefully I can find out what can trigger profits to rise.

A train addict.

[Gumboots]

Hmm. All I remember about this one is that it was buggy, so I ignored it in favour of other scenarios. Earlier in the thread Hawk mentions that somebody did make a debugged version for the site's map archive. Perhaps try that one instead.

TBH about half of the Coast to Coast Expansion stuff seems to have been rushed out the door with insufficient oversight.

[RulerofRails]

Loco65, Welcome! As someone who understands compounded growth and ROI, I am interested in how you strategize spending money in the game.

I took a quick minute to load this one up. I have a version dated April 22, 2004. Two things:
--- You aren't receiving a medal because the gold medal is only checking if you fulfilled the conditions at the end of the game.
--- The event that sets up the last page of the ledger (status page) is showing the info for the AI company instead of yours.
These bugs have been mentioned before, just thought I would let you know what was happening in the game's events. The game's events have limits, but within these limits a "bug" of this type is a human error in the setup of said event.

As Gumboots suggested, the easy thing to do is to download the fixed version and play that. There is also a slight increase in difficulty with new restrictions of "no industry building" and "no unconnected track."

[Loco65]

Thanks Gumboots and RulerofRails.
Today I succeeded Ireland with a gold medal with buggy verison. Total Industry Profit was $ 50 mln at the end playing on hard. After I have finished all maps I will start on expert. Also I will create an account to download the maps made by others. This game really got me hooked again after all these years.

Mostly I start with some industries that generate ROI of 15% or more like dairy farms, oil wells, cattle ranches and fruit orchards. That will generate enough cash to connect to competitor and then I will let him do the work and I collect the money. If I have to haul specific cargo I start doing so at 2nd or 3rd year.
Sometimes I build aTextile Mill (Alternate USA), dairy processor or brewery (Ireland) if that will genrate more cash to expand rapidly.

Greetings from another railroad tycoon.

[Hawk]

Logs/Lumber is generally another good investment. I include logs because sometimes logging camps will disappear if you don't own them.

[RulerofRails]

Loco65, I would recommend skipping the Poptop maps in favor of the ones made by fans. I would especially recommend those made by Oilcan. He understands how to setup a nice map economy like no other. This gives a smooth playing enviroment where new industries that sprout make more sense and seeding of all resources to specific regions and cities is far better than in the original PopTop maps.

As a guesstimate he has 20+ maps in the archives meaning that you will need an account. If you want a taste first, try this beta (viewtopic.php?p=39581#p39581) that he re-worked before it disappears (the final version is in the archives, so the attachment could disappear any day now). Even though it's a beta, it plays just fine.