Yellowstone - Beta

[OilCan]

Premise of this game is if Yellowstone had never become a national park. Objective is to haul passengers and make industry revenue.

This is a 1.05 version game. No extras needed.

I would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative. The Gold medal may seem high, but it is doable.

Note: The beta version was removed and final version submitted for posting.

[Sugus]

Wow! An interesting an unusual map!

First bought the destillery in Gardiner and connected Gardiner to Mammoth Hot Springs (greetings from Nez Perez!) as well as Jardin and Tower Junction. 1978 I reached Canyon and built the "Falls Loop", also connected Norris in 1979 and Madison in 1982. Unfortunately, that was it.

Had 5 M debts at this point, and the meanwhile nine trains were not profitable enough to let me do anything more. So, being always some K red there was no chance to even accept the industry offer and I further only could enjoy my trains (by means of the camera).

Finally, I was informed in January 1889 to be a loser! (The miserable result: 6 cities, 97 / 45 passengers and $3.144.031 LTD industry profit.) Hmmm - thought the scenario would end in 1899.

Ok, was my first try - but I think, the map is a possibly too tough one.

[OilCan]

Oops. The ending date should be 1898 not 89. I'll make note of that correction.

The KEY thing about this yellowstone game is NOT to build track during the winter. Track and station costs are 50% more than normal from November to March. That's because about everything is covered in snow. DO build track during June, July and August when track / station costs are 25/30% less than normal. If you can do most of your track expansion in these three summer months, you will save lots of money.

The first year (elapsed years = 0), the winter track costs do not apply. They are normal costs for the first year.

During the winter, spend time scouting out industry, buying industry and upgrading industry.

The other key thing is not to overlook the little town of Jardin which is right beside Gardiner. A short rail line to Jardin tends to be profitable.

[brunom]

I gave it a go yesterday. Decided to start with a lumber mill in Tower Junction. Built a spiked line to 2 different logging stations and used a Consolidation to bring logs down to the valley. Was working, even if profit was slow.. eventually, connected to a third log station (always in summer), and bought the three.

Profit was stable and I had no bonds standing, hence suitable credit rating. Waited for the right time, paused and in one go (around the 6th summer) I took a whole bunch of bonds, connected Tower Junction to Gardiner and Jardin, with 2 wood bridges and 1 tunnel.. bought 2 more locos, one for express service another for cargo along the valley.

This might sound good, but I got sacked less than 12 months after. On problem was that the logs rolled downwards to the mill without waiting in the stations nxt to them, greatly reducing my income. But I got to admit that the main culprit was my over-borrowing. Still, the board was so cruel!! I stayed long enough to see that the company was making profit the season after, while I tried a second company (obviously, without success).

At this point, I left that first attempt. I've been dividing my play-time between all the maps in beta and the map I just published in this forum, which is a beta as well, so I didn't go back to yellowstone yet. However, the map looks good and I will soon give it another go - this time, a little less bold (i.e. stupid) about living on credit.

thumbs up!
B

[OilCan]

One problem was that the logs rolled downwards to the mill without waiting in the stations nxt to them, greatly reducing my income.

I've noticed this effect in other games and I have a personal rule not to build supply stations if the raw resources are within a short distance of the mill/factory. What's a short distance? Well, that depends on the terrain and experience. I prefer to build a mill/factory in a city, within the cache of the city station, but I will readily place it out in the countryside if I can place it in middle of a cluster of raw resouces -- then I build track to it.

Consider these tactics for the Yellowstone game. Invest in an industry at the start, one that will start making money right away or soon after. Connect to Jardin. Buy cheap engines. Later on connect to Mammoth. Then make a push to Canyon and complete the falls loop. Now, you should be financially ready to invest in more industry or expand your track. Credit ratings should be low enough to allow several bonds.

Pay attention to little 'settlements' of 3-4 houses scattered in places across the map. Connect these to your main line with a station. These little settlements can become valuable cargo sources/demands.

Set your dividends to nearly zero. You're the only player on the map so take advantage of issuing stock. Try to issue right before your stock splits to take advantage of high share prices. Buy personal stock if you have the cash to push the share price even higher before issuing stock. Take time to ice fish in Yellowstone Lake.

[Hawk]

I've been messing with this one and what I've seen is that Jardin is a good stop if the seeding is good. Out of 15 times loading this map I only got two seedings where there was an industry in Jardin.
The problem was then that there were only about 4 or 5 iron mines.

My latest attempt has 10 iron mines but no industry in Jardin. Needless to say Jardin is not proving to be a worth while whistle stop.

[Hawk]

Well, after play testing a map I realized that the iron offer isn't worth building track up to the iron mines, so I'm starting with a new approach.

BTW! After 5 years of having two trains dedicated to 8 iron from Tower Junction to Gardiner, I never did notice the 50k pay out, and there was quite a few that hauled the 8 iron.

[OilCan]

LIfe's about choices and sometimes the choices in RT3 games aren't worth the effort. However, I meant for the iron (and later coal) options to be worth it - but not to Gardiner. You make more money choosing to ship them to a more central steel plant. There is a remote chance that an iron mine will appear near Gardiner and then the option is worth it.

It also depends on how the iron mines are seeded. It is sometimes easier to get to them from Canyon rather than from Tower Junction.

Are you shipping to the original train station at Gardiner or a new one? I ask because there is a small territory beneath the original Gardiner station which counts the loads. Do the load counts show up correctly on the ledger? Also, at the very end of the year, there should be a game message which says that you were rewarded $500K for the iron (this will only stay on the screen for about 10 seconds, but pressing M should bring it back into view). I tested and tested the iorn and coal counts and it worked for me. I will test them again before releasing a final map.

[Hawk]

I am, or was (I'm working on a new start right now, but I have the saved game of the iron effort), running from the existing depot in Gardiner.
I never did see anything pop up on the screen about delivering the iron, but I know at least a couple of the 5 years I had to have made the mark since I was running a dedicated iron train set to 8 minimum.
I'll go back to the saved game and make sure.

This time I'm in April 1885, 12 years and 4 months in and I have no bonds out (I just finished paying off about 6), I've got 635K cash, 9 trains and track laid to Jardin, Mammoth Hot Springs and Grayling (I bought the lumber mill there at the start and a meat packing plant there later on). The Grayling trains are a cash cow when they hit the station. Four run between Graling and Gardiner and two run between Grayling and Mammoth Hot Springs.
I only have 5 industries at this point: Lumber Mill, Meat Packing Plant and 3 Dairy Farms, all profitable - so far. My IP right now is a paltry 3mil.
48 loads of pax. 24 from Gardiner.

I'm getting ready to head over to Canyon and see what I can pull out of the woods there.

Not looking good for the home team.

Here's my track plan.

Yellowstone.jpg (76.99 KiB) Viewed 8361 times

I really like this map, in particular the terrain. I like a good mountain challenge. I tend to not burn track on a map like this.

[OilCan]

As you know, when building a map one tries to anticpate how other players would start the game and how they would progress through the game. I never really gave it much of a chance that someone would connect Mammoth and Grayling at the start of the game - or else I would have smoothed that route some more. But it seems to have worked well for you!

I had a thought this morning that maybe I should add a few tiny towns (they would have to be fictional) to the map in order to break up some of the longer connections. It would also help in passenger loads as well as the overall economy of the map. There are "settlements" scattered around the map but they are not 'cities' so they will never develp any industry.

[Hawk]

The steepest grade on that run is 5 and that's only about 5 sections of track. The rest is mainly 2 and 3 with some 4 thrown in.
It was a challenge!

[Hawk]

I went back to the saved iron game and I did see the message (I had to put it on very slow to see it because it was hidden behind the yearly book pop-up) and it seems I did get the 500k, although it doesn't show up in the ledger, but it did add it to the company cash.

I was looking for a regular pop-up message and not a game message. Plus I was looking for the message as soon as I delivered the iron, only to find out it doesn't show the message until the end of the year.
Normally I don't pay any attention to those messages so in this map I'm probably missing a lot of messages.

One thing I am curious about. Since there's no PNW involved in this scenario, why does the player get the bonus for passenger hauling and not the company.
Typically if there's no PNW involved in a scenario I don't pay any attention to the player or the stock market, other than to issue stock to try to help reduce my credit rating before I want to issue bonds.
Personally I would rather the company get the bonus. That's the only place the money can be used.

Oh yea! That donation to keep the preservationists at bay: it would be nice to have the option to not donate. Even the smallest choice can hurt if you're not ready for it.

[OilCan]

Hawk:
Good question about the PNW. I know some folks like to play towards building their PNW and company ownership regardless if it is a game goal or not -- the quest of becoming a tycoon. So, I built a little of that into the game. After thinking about it, it does make sense to funnel all the passenger bonus money towards the company, not the player. I'll change that.

And, I'll add a very low amount to contribute to fight off the preservationists. You made a good point.

And, I've decided to change most of the little 'settlements' into bonafide cities, but small cities. This will help passenger count as well as break up the long routes.

I'm curious to how you fared in passenger count and industry revenue at the end of your game.

[Hawk]

I'm curious to how you fared in passenger count and industry revenue at the end of your game.

I actually haven't finished a game yet. I'm still at April - '85.

We had some friends from out of state come in for the weekend and I didn't spend much time on the computer. Mostly out historic site seeing.

[Hawk]

Well, as I suspected I flopped at pax hauling.
I did notice most, if not all the passenger events seem to offer higher pax fare. Maybe you could change one or two to more pax traffic.

I did fall for the tour rail out of Old Faithful. Dastardly. Simply evil.

Yellowstone2.jpg (36.66 KiB) Viewed 6600 times

One question, just out of curiosity; Is it at all possible for the preservationists to ever win the cause? Maybe 1 in a thousand?

[OilCan]

Thanks for testing it Hawk.

Believe it or not, but the passenger production is dampened down by 50%!! My first runs at the game were ending up with enormous passenger count loads just 10 years into the game. I kept reducing the passenger production and finally settled with 50%. I did not want to do anything to increase it any more.

The poor preservationists are doomed to always lose - and I say this with tongue in cheek because I am one. I thought about giving them a chance to win, but I figured I would make some players made at me for allowing them to invest several hours of play and lose it with no warning.

The easiest way to win this game is to trash Yellowstone. I made this game as a reminder of why we have national parks: some places, especially special places, should always be saved from ourselves.

[Hawk]

That's interesting!

I've been playing this map with respect to Yellowstone. Maybe that's why I can't get anywhere.

I would like to add one more - uhm? - observation - comment?
I like the Nez Perez event (I actually - unknowingly - avoided a lot of that in one game). I like the Old Faithful tour event (Broke me from suckin' eggs. ).
I think they fit the scenario as a plausible realism.
Maybe blocking off certain territories completely, instead of the consequences currently applied when laying rail, might make for a little less frustrating experience.

[brunom]

That's interesting!
Maybe blocking off certain territories completely, instead of the consequences currently applied when laying rail, might make for a little less frustrating experience.

Frustrating indeed..
I have been very limited on play time, so I still count just two shamefully failed attempts at the scenario. I already shared the first one. In the second one I went with a as-much-track-as-possible policy only to waste a lot of money in those "soft ground" pits and to be sacked without second thoughts.

B

[Wolverine@MSU]

Finished this one in 1895. I was worried about making the PAX quota as the '90s approached, so I started running lots of Express-only trains with high-priority, keeping a close eye on where PAX were, and where they wanted to go. I restarted once, after I read more carefully and discovered that rail/station building costs were greatly reduced in the summer months. I did opt for the snowplow the second time around, and bit on the Iron-hauling (but not coal-hauling) bonus; don't know if it was worth it in the end though. Never bit on the "hunts", being the tree-hugger that I am.

One question I have (in general): Do negative profits from an industry cut into the overall LTD industry profit? A lot of my paper mills started out as big money makers, but then started going into the red. At one point I started dumping them, assuming that they would count against LTD Industry profit. Was that the right thing to do?

Got "burned" by the hot-springs a couple of times and had to go back and reroute some track, but fortunately, I had saved the game right before building, so I didn't actually lose anything (is this "cheating"?. Sometimes it was hard to tell exactly where the hot springs were until after building the rails). In the last third of the game I was making really good money due to the high price gradients between supplers and demanders, so I double-railed almost half of my tracks, which undoubtably helped in keeping the PAX moving. One exploit I used on a few occasions was to issue more than $5 M in bonds. No real penalty for it; just had to pay them down before taking out more. Perhaps a severe penalty would discourage borrowing too much (why the limit anyway?)

All in all a very nice scenario. I didn't notice any bugs in the events. About the only thing I would change would be to shorten the length of track leading away from Gardiner so that there's room to put service facilities closer to the station (I actually went into the Editor and bulldozed those few track pieces at the start of the game, which was "cheating" for sure). Amounts and distribution of resources was excellent (at least in my seeding) so I see no need to change them. I give this one

[OilCan]

Maybe blocking off certain territories completely, instead of the consequences currently applied when laying rail, might make for a little less frustrating experience.

I'm guessing that you mean the hot springs areas in which you lose any track built in them?