sao miguel

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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brunom
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sao miguel Unread post

While the Haiti map was on beta time, I spent some free time playing around with another project (it was supposed to be a small project at start but it turned out to be an average size map)... :lol:

I threw in some paint buckets and some random ideas for events, but I don't really know what to think of this map - if you folks would be kind enough to give it a try (as usual) and share your thoughts on it. {,0,} Your views are always greatly appreciated.

cheers
B
RayofSunshine
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Well Bronum,
This is an easy going scenario, at least in the Medium level. I am enjoying it. BUT, I have run into some problems. *!*!*!

A minor English of the requirement you indicate the task to connect to Ribeira Granda """and/or"""" Provoacao. That would indicate that a player would only have to make the connection to """either""" destination, of which the actual programming requires connection to both destinations. Just a minor correction by dropping the "or".

Now in the case of another task, it is stated that connections connections be made to Sete Cidades ""and"" Loga Compaida. So the English is correct, but I was unable to get the bonus, as the "Game Status" keeps showing that "they are not cnn to the coast."

Here is the playing data. Loga Compaida which had "loga" was initiated early to cnn with Furmac which had the "lumber mill". Furmac was then cnn to Provoacao, as it had a "toy factory". Provoacao was later cnn to Ponta Delgada as part of another task.

Early in the play, the city of Feteira was cnn to Ponta Delgada, so was the closest in intiating making the cnn to Sete Cidadea. So I don't know the reason for the bonus to not be accomplished. **!!!**

My English might be better than yours, but my spelling is not that great, as I am having some eye vision problems, and gets difficult to read the small print. And my fingers don't always click on the correct keys either. The problem of getting old. LOL

I have another problem with the goals, but will wait until I get some info on what might be the problem with those indicated previous.

As I don't prefer mountainous terrain scenario, I really like the easy flow of the terrain in this scenario. Also the tasks are some talent of imagination to make the playing of interest. :salute:


Then at
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Thanks for testing Ray,

I take it that RRT3 has become a mix of pleasure and pain for you these days, with the sight problems and everything ;-)

Your comments are really welcome and they point out some problems I haven't detected before.
Ray of Sunshine wrote:Well Brunom,
This is an easy going scenario, at least in the Medium level. I am enjoying it. BUT, I have run into some problems. *!*!*!
It is supposed to be an easy scenario mostly, sort of an introduction to mountainous railroading, since the game offers a mix of plains and mountains (some trully steep!)
Ray of Sunshine wrote: A minor English of the requirement you indicate the task to connect to Ribeira Granda """and/or"""" Provoacao. That would indicate that a player would only have to make the connection to """either""" destination, of which the actual programming requires connection to both destinations. Just a minor correction by dropping the "or".
That sentence appears if 1. neither of those cities are connected, or if 2. one of them isn't connected... using "and/or" means either of these possibilities. If I leave just "or", it implies that one of them IS connected, which may still seem inaccurate to the player.
Ray of Sunshine wrote: is stated that connections connections be made to Sete Cidades ""and"" Loga Compaida. So the English is correct, but I was unable to get the bonus, as the "Game Status" keeps showing that "they are not cnn to the coast."
My bad, poor programming, "coast" territory isn't defined - I will change that.
Ray of Sunshine wrote: Here is the playing data. Loga Compaida which had "loga" was initiated early to cnn with Furmac which had the "lumber mill". Furmac was then cnn to Provoacao, as it had a "toy factory". Provoacao was later cnn to Ponta Delgada as part of another task.

Early in the play, the city of Feteira was cnn to Ponta Delgada, so was the closest in intiating making the cnn to Sete Cidadea. So I don't know the reason for the bonus to not be accomplished. **!!!**
If you ever accomplish connecting to Sete Cidades, without using an expensive tunnel into the crater, share the image.. eheh (not all tasks are easy to accomplish). I just realized I didn't set the "build only connected tracks" condition. Looking at how you tried to solve that task, maybe it's better to turn it on for the revised version.

I think that the target values for milk and cheese hauling is what will be the major factor to define the scenario as easy/difficult. So, once you play the whole 35 years, let me know your stats on that, please.

cheers
B
RayofSunshine
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

No Brunom,

Since there are engines with good climability, I will lay track "over" an obstacle, rather that they expense of not only constructing a tunnel, but its maintenance thereafter. And there are very good inclines "up and into" the crater to Sete Cidades. Will reconstruct the access with a tunnel to see if that will correct ""my"" problem.
Never thought about using a tunnel.

Now for another indicator, of which is that of "steel". Iron is programmed for 1880. The Steel Mill in 1895. Beng a small island, there probably no iron mines. Lots of coal in the ports, so I experimented with building a steel mill, and just to haul coal, to see if that might just trigger a "minimal" amount of steel. That didn't work So the question?
Is there some programming reason for this being a "bonus" to get rails reduced in cost? Like maybe, iron at some date to pop up in one of the ports as imported? Otherwise I don't see the reason or purpose of the bonus.

Yes, the "cheese" is the difficult bonus. The difficulty is that of hauling the "milk" to the ports, OR, hauling the milk to the "Dairy Processor". Both of which are at Ponta Delgada area.

Well not as much of a difficulty as the hauling of steel, considering that there isn't any.
LOL

Seeing that I like to "play" , this is a good entertainment scenario, with some tasks to make it of interest. :salute:
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Hawk
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

I had a look in the editor and while iron is checked in the overall industry list, I couldn't find any cities, ports, or regions that included iron in their recipe.
Looks like he just forgot to give iron some place to be. ;-)

The event debugging screen also shows that iron is checked but no cities/regions have iron assigned to them.
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

I just downloaded my own scenario, to check if you guys had the same version as I have. And you do...

Iron and Steel Mill are programmed to pop up at a specific time, not as part of cities or agricultural regions. Iron deposits will be discovered during game play (independent from player action) - it's the last event in the list if you want to take a peek.

I have to be honest: In my (few, as I wasn't/ still am not / so sure about this scenario) attempts, I always ignored the "connect sete cidades and lagoa comprida". This is also because original map had craters even less accessible and I tweaked the terrain a little further just before releasing this for trials. That's why the mis-programming in that check passed unnoticed (it will not be alright with a tunnel I reckon),

EDIT: I went over to review the "craters" condition. It triggers only when the first passengers arrive at the crater... what needs to be clarified are the references to the task, so that the player knows he/she needs to offload one truck of tourists in there.. 8-)
EDIT 2: The task is well presented and specifies what needs to be done i think (see below), it was the ledger message that needed re-writing
Game Message wrote: As before, every decade brings a new goal, which is not compulsory for game victory but brings bonuses (or penalties if missed).

The third and final one is:
Take the railroad to the magnificent volcanic craters of Lagoa Comprida and Sete Cidades.
As soon as passengers have arrived in both of them, there is a $3M cash bonus (of which, 500k are for yourself) to be delivered, and passenger traffic in the island will increase.
[

Many thanks, keep your input coming, it's hugely appreciated
cheers
B
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Hawk
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Are you sure you're looking at the same map as I am, the one in the first post?
The reason I ask is because I've been through all of the events and saw nothing about iron.

I'd also like to point out that the 5 steel events all have the same conditions and effects. Also - the Three Ports Not Done and the Three Ports Done events have the same effects, meaning if you connect the 3 ports you still get fined $200K.

Am I missing something? The last event in the list is the lose event, with the 5 steel events right above it.
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Hi

Definitely not the same version as I have - I compared file sizes to see if it was the same one, but the difference was probably too small to go noticed..

be right back (with the proper version, I will take the chance and correct the problems spotted in the meanwhile)...

B
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Hawk
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

The one I have is 1.43 MB (1,508,625 bytes). ;-)
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

.. hmm, I can't remember doing it, but I'm not surprised if I changed the posted file some time after uploading it... it wouldn't be the first time, but nevermind - here's the latest version, revised as of 2 mins ago.

*!*!*!
B

PS: Looking at the map again, it is a dreadful paint job and i SHALL redo it from scratch after beta - it's a promise!

EDIT: I also gave the map a quick overall "slight smoothing" just before packaging the zip to go - in honor of Ray, the "no-mountains-man". :-D

EDIT 2: Darn! I forgot to delete the effect of the "3 ports connected" again - as to avoid another upload/download, please delete the effect on that event or just accept that for this beta version you will be fined one time more than you should.

******* ATTACHMENT REMOVED *********
Last edited by brunom on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hawk
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Definitely a different version than the first zip. ^**lylgh
(BTW! I deleted that file in the first post. ;-) )

I noticed you didn't fix three ports done event in this version, as mentioned in a previous post of mine.
If you connect it looks like it still will fine the $200K
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Hawk
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

I've been playing this map for a little bit and I've noticed that when you haul lumber, the more you haul the more expensive stations get.
Me thinks that's a bit backwards? :mrgreen:
Clipboard04.jpg
Here's my status page, and I haven't really been trying, just now having hooked up cheese to Povoacao. I'm playing on medium level and built one motel in Ponta Delgada, which is currently making about 46K a year, and I have $0 debt and own 100,000 shares of stock compared to 176,000 owned by others.
I should add: PNW goals have never been one of my strong points. *!*!*!
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RayofSunshine
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Well Brunom,
My playing was done with the previous version, so that is some of the problems which I have had.
I tried a few experiments, and found that "any" tunnel to Sete Cadadas will trigger the completed task. Just depends on how much a player want s to invest. Also of concern is the type of engine to navigate the incline. Shorty tunnel of $1632K has inclines to 14, which basically the P8 should be used. The least is $3632K tunnel has a lessor incline and the S3 is adequate. I did use the more expensive tunnel, but found that it was consuming a considerable amount of maintenance of revenue. My error.

My "cheese" fell short, until I realized that Ponta Delgada was close to the port demanding milk, so the milk basically got taken away from the Processor. At that point I switched the routing of milk into the vicinity of the Farms, and build a Processor, which at least gave me some cheese production.

My stock was drastically on margin, and the economy in the last 1/2 dozen years gradually went down hill ending with a Depression, and a loss of all stock.

The previous threads explains the reason for the lack of "steel". I even tried to built a steel mill, and hoping that running coal, that it might just '''trigger'' some result. NAY.

All being the case, although I did not see any mention of medals, I ended up just "walking down the track" at the final date.

Here are some of the results:
cheese: 16
milk" 112
PNW -$17.6K
Steel 0
Lumber: 116 = 11% reduction for depot purchase
Oil: 242 = 11% reduction in engine mainenance.

But now that I know some of my mistakes, I hope to do better with the new version.
And interested to see what you plan for the "color" of the terrain. There were some fairly steep inclines in the terrain, but I manage to use more track and take the easiest slopes to help lessn the stress and speed for the engines. :salute:
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Sugus
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Gave it (Sao Miguel 76 beta) a try on medium this afternoon, fulfilled any additional tasks and ended as shown below:
Sao Miguel 76 - beta.jpg
As mentioned by Hawk, things are going to be more expensive than cheaper.
Also, for the player it would be nice to know about the exact conditions for bronze, silver and gold.
After 35 years I was simply informed to be a loser. ^**lylgh
Ok, a short inspection by means of the editior discovered the secret: there are no events related to medals at all ... :-?

Nevertheless, playing this beta was fun. Go on brunom and complete it! !*th_up*!
There's no business like RT business ...
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Back from a getaway weekend..

Glad to see you guys found the scenario interesting enough, Sugus, Ray and Hawk. How did you find the terrain? I messed up a height map in photoshop and then, when I "molded" it a bit in the editor, I started to find it "awkwardly interesting".. what about you?

As for your issues/concerns:
- the 3 ports event is now corrected
- stations price (as well as maintenance, track cost, etc) is affected by the annual inflation and not only by the haulage bonuses - if you benefit from a lot of years with good to excellent economy, prices will soar.
- victory conditions are to be defined, depending on how well the players do.. that's why I left them open and waited for the results of your tests..

Will now set/program victory goals, and repaint the land. (any suggestions?)

I'm rubbish at playing towards pnw, so I need your views on understanding how hard/easy the goals are.
BRONZE:
50 cheese, 50 milk, 20M in PNW ... or .... over 150 milk, 20 PNW
SILVER:
75 cheese, 150 milk, 30M in PNW ... or .... over 300 milk, 30 PNW
GOLD:
150 cheese, 250 milk, 40M in PNW ... or .... over 500 milk, 40 PNW

new version will be posted in a couple of days hopefully
c ya
B
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Alright.. as promised, here is the release candidate for the scenario. Everything is coded in now, including your beloved victory events, Sugus.

Please post your reviews. !$th_u$!
(on scenario difficulty, programming errors, painting, strategies, etc)

B
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

5 downloads, 2 weeks later and no reviews/remarks ???

How unusual... I would risk to say you found this scenario a poor one.

I take it nobody found it interesting enough to write a proper review on it.

But, as the creator, I can't stop wondering if this is really poor quality (and I had doubts from start) or if, otherwise, this is flawless and, albeit not exciting, is ready for publishing.

Cheers
B
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Sugus
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Ok - I started to play the "final" version yesterday. Unfortunately, there is still the strange effect: the more oil, lumber etc. you haul the more go things being more expensive than cheaper. :oops: The yearly events, which additionally (increase or) decrease things based on the current economy, could be the reason for that. From my point of view, the penalties by RT3 itself are hard enough. :-D

Couldn't fulfill the second task, because - due to my stupid way of playing - I ran into the situation, that the yearly income was smaller than $200k. So, the company cash became red and more red.

Nevertheless, it's a map of my taste! !*th_up*! Means: I'll give it a further try at another day, of course.
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brunom
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

In some of my tests I have crashed and burned in the same brick wall you did, Sugus.. that yearly $200k is a heavy blow if one isn't expecting it. But it is quite doable, on a second attempt.

Anyhow, glad you liked it. And thank you for the quick reply. !*th_up*!

I have another scenario ready to put up for beta and didn't want to open a thread without getting my own "closure" on this one.

Hawk: are you there? I know you're always there... following Sugus thumbs up on the scenario, I guess I call this a done deal and move on - will you (if you like / if you would be kind enough) move this map to the proper archive. {,0,}

Thank you so much!
And make sure you check the next thread - this next scenario is far better and one I am proud of.

B
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Sugus
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Re: another map: island of sao miguel Unread post

Knowing - as a beta tester :-D - about the intermediate and final goals, I started a new try today ("on another day" ^**lylgh ). Ignoring any suggestions, I connencted Porta Delgada and Povocacao first (hmmm "first"), which approximately gave me the 700 miles of the first task to fulfill. Fine. Now - within the next step - I connected Prados and Riberia Grande: second task fulfilled! Thereafter, it was time to look for milk and cheese. And exactely this I'm doing now ...

But, I'm going to sleep now ... hmmm, tomorrow (or at least at next weekend), brunom: I'll enter those craters and will do the job!

Once more: a great map! !**yaaa
There's no business like RT business ...
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