Hawk & Badger Railroad Forum

I came up with this idea but I don't know if it could be done. I thought of a new industry...

Anthracite>>>>>>>>>>>Breakers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Coal

2 Anthracite= 1 Coal

Anthacite coal is harder then the soft (bituminous) coal that's mined in western Pa and West Virginia and out west. Since the anthracite is harder it needed to be ship to a "breaker" first so the anthracite could be seperated from the rock. These breaker were maned by young boys called "Breaker Boys".

The idea is to have a new cargo anthracite that comes from a mine building and must be shipped to the breaker building before it can be shipped out as coal.

Can this be done?

Yes it can be in two ways.

1) You would need to make a new cargo for the game and designate it into either an existing car type or create a new car type for it. Then you would need to create a breaker industry.

2) The other way you could do it, is create an industry called a "breaker" that simply turns one coal into two coals, and limit how many it can process that way. Then you would just use some clever scripting or what not. This way you don't need an "anthracite" entryin cargo or cars.

I would suggest number two, it'd be easier to work with and less modding on part of the person downloading your level to play. Trust me, I've been really looking at the same thing with my own map, ultimately I'm trying to keep stuff in the game people will re-use.

Actually, the anthracite mine would use the regular coal mine. The coal car would be the same too. The only thing that would have to be made is the breaker itself. It would be 2 anthracite = to 1 coal. The set price would be a little lower then regular coal. Hummm, I'm gonna have to look into this.

I thought I read somewhere that extra cargo could be made...I think it was in the 1.6 patch.

Well you could "use" the regular mine, when I say "make" an industry that means you at least are re-"programming" a BCA and BTY file. That's required to add any industry to the game. You could skip re-skinning and not bother with altering 3dp files, but you'd still need to make:

1) Anthracite mine industry that generates "anthracite" the cargo (BCA, BTY)
2) Breaker industry that transformers anthracite into coal (BCA, BTY)
3) Cargo entry for anthracite (I think it's two files)
4) Designate a cargo car to carry the anthracite in game (I think that is also two files)

Versus
1) Make a breaker industry that transformers one coal into 2 coal. (BCA, BTY)

Really it's your choice, any can work, it just depends on how much work you want to do. Think of it like this, technicalities aside we are doing our best to simulate something; the first option simulates the entire process including the name, the second choice is shorter but only simulates the activity of the action you are simulating, without naming it that way.

I've created a breaker for you from the lumber mill. Same stats, except it's 1 coal for 2 coal.

http://healthyinsanity.com/railroad/

Wow, thanks! I don't know if a lumber mill is the best thing to use. The map I would use them on would have a lumber industry share some of the same area as coal...It might get confusing.

I ask this question...Has anybody ever added a new building to the game? If so, how would it be done?

Well it could easily be swapped for another building if you know BTY files, I just grabbed the most convincing at the moment. I was originally going for a bauxite mine I forget why I swapped... but changing it is easy.

For your question do you mean adding a building by adding a new 3dp file? That's what I'm talking to WP&P about. We can add new locos that way so I don't see why not buildings...

I was wondering. I don't know of any custom buildings, unless they made some for the 1.6 patch. I'd sure like to know how to make buildings for the game...I got lots of ideas.

Nope, no custom buildings, we had the same idea at roughly the same time. If I can figure it out or if someone helps me I'll wind up making an original building for the Shipyard industry...

But if you have an industry building that turns 2 coal into 1 coal, wouldn't the product coal sit there and be re-input, resulting in a never-ending cycle of diminishing coal? Except for the profit that is made by the industry itself, this seems to be self-defeating, as it would probably be more profitable to ship the coal to a city or steel mill, unless the demand at the Breaker was higher than either of these.

It seems to work, try it out. Start a mostly blank map in the editor, take the manual placement of building tool and just go WHAM with houses, put up a couple of breakers between some coal mines and run a route. See what happens.

coruscate wrote:Well it could easily be swapped for another building if you know BTY files, I just grabbed the most convincing at the moment. I was originally going for a bauxite mine I forget why I swapped... but changing it is easy.

For your question do you mean adding a building by adding a new 3dp file? That's what I'm talking to WP&P about. We can add new locos that way so I don't see why not buildings...

To be clear, I haven't been creating new .3DP files "ex-nihilo"; rather, I'm taking a .3DP file that is as close as I can get it, then adjusting its shape in critical areas via laborious hex editing, and saving as something new. This would be the case with buildings too, for the most part; imagine the building shapes in themselves, as if they were just painted solid grey, and look for the building shape that is best for your new purposes. Certain portions can be subtracted from this shape just by making them invisible within the skin file (alpha channel), but if you wanted to, say, make the roof pitch steeper then you'd need to hex-edit the .3DP file, to find the points that define the ridgeline of the roof, and then make their Z-values greater (taller). You're saving this as a new file with its own unique name, but you've only really massaged a few points. To create the whole thing new from the ground up is really too difficult to do just in the hex editor; you need a 3D modeling tool / environment, and we still have no conversion tool to go from such an environment back into the .3DP file format.

Also, note that only certain kinds of transformation are feasible using the hex editor; relocation, such as moving wheels forward or back, just involves changing y-values, adding or subtracting the same amount to all Y-values. Simple addition and subtraction is what I am talking about. You can't do higher-order stuff, such as to scale a model up by 20%... this involves a lot of math to calculate new X, Y, and Z coordinates for every point in the model. You can add and remove points to the model, but doing so means also defining new faces to connect to those points, and mapping the skin file onto those faces, and it all becomes more work than it is worth; instead, try to just move the points that are already in the file.

A building like a Lumber Mill can be used to represent a lot of things... in terms of shape, it's just a long low building with a sloped roof. Skin it right, and you'll never recognize the Lumber Mill it used to be. Add in a simple change in roof pitch as mentioned above, and it could look vastly different.

So shrinking the pier is not an option?

I noticed something when I was working with the skinning software they included... they specifically mentioned 3d Studio Max. Does anyone have that and have they tried opening the 3dp files with it?

Wolverine@MSU wrote:But if you have an industry building that turns 2 coal into 1 coal, wouldn't the product coal sit there and be re-input, resulting in a never-ending cycle of diminishing coal? Except for the profit that is made by the industry itself, this seems to be self-defeating, as it would probably be more profitable to ship the coal to a city or steel mill, unless the demand at the Breaker was higher than either of these.

That's why I was thinking it should be a new cargo. It would have to take 2 anthracite loads to equal 1 load of coal. Or 2 anthracite loads equal to 1 antracite coal load. Anthracite coal had a different demand the regular coal because it burned hotter. Much anthractie ended up at steel mills and used for home heating.

Here is a couple other ideas I had...

Retail-see below
Vegtables to Retail
Tobacco to Smoke Factory to Retail
Produce-same as before but add Retail
Containers- Ports to Warehouse that changes it to Goods then to Retail
Before mentioned Anthracite to Breakers to coal
Other cargos such as Clothes, Tires, Toys ect to Retail
Trailers-Retail to Warehouse

Retail-see below

I don't follow?

Vegtables to Retail

Like a supermarket? That would be easy, the Tavern or Restaurant could be turned into a grocery store that demands a small amount of milk, cheese, produce and meat.

Tobacco to Smoke Factory to Retail

Might be possible in Ned's version of the game, he's adding hemp I do believe. We can just... you know... use our imagination.

Containers- Ports to Warehouse that changes it to Goods then to Retail

I don't follow?

Other cargos such as Clothes, Tires, Toys ect to Retail

That would be my mall mod, I think?

Trailers-Retail to Warehouse

?

if I'm correct...and I'n not sure that I am...RRT3 has a retail store. This store could be set up to demand certain products. It would start out as Mom and Pop store and then turn into malls in later years.

Containers and Trailers... Containers are the railroad future. The containers show up at a port (if it can be setup). The train then takes them to warehouses (if can be setup). The warehouse then turn into goods.

Ports>>>>>>>>>>>Container>>>>>>>>>>Warehouse>>>>>>>>>>Goods A little complex but neat!

MrScott2007 wrote:if I'm correct...and I'n not sure that I am...RRT3 has a retail store. This store could be set up to demand certain products. It would start out as Mom and Pop store and then turn into malls in later years.

It could but then you'd be artificially spiking demand in every city since it is a support building that automatically appears. What you are discussing is best done with a separate building. It could be made from the same skin if you REALLY wanted to, but I would not suggest it. I discovered that the modern concept of malls was something that came into existence in 1950 which is why my mall industry doesn't start until 1950, and it has a strong demand right out of the starting gate. The in-game retail building is based on a 1930 main street store front facade. Not too many malls take that look.

Containers and Trailers... Containers are the railroad future. The containers show up at a port (if it can be setup). The train then takes them to warehouses (if can be setup). The warehouse then turn into goods.

That can be set up. You'd have to add a cargo entry in the system and the two files that make up the car. Then you can just have the port produce the cargo and have the warehouse transform the cargo. "Easy." Have you tried looking through the editing documents Hawk has posted in his extras section? It's not quite user friendly but if you get it you can start to get a better idea of what you can and can't do. Quite a bit is possible.

coruscate wrote:Have you tried looking through the editing documents Hawk has posted in his extras section?

I'll take a look at it, I might be able to figure it out. If I can figure out how to use Gmax for Trainz, I should be able to figure RRT3 out.

I see that building have 2 files to them, .BTY & .BCA.

My first question is what opens those kind of files and what kind of files are these?