RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution

Discussion of Pop Top's last release of RRT.
Silverback
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

ostlandr wrote:Just to confuse everybody, I am currenly running the 1.06 patch in Vista Home Premium on the family laptop, an Acer Aspire 5570Z (5570-2067).

In contrast, RRT3 will not run at all on the new Vista desktop (Compaq Presario.) Tried every possible combination of version and compatibility setting, lots of patches, etc. No good.

I can't explain it, but it just works on the laptop. No crash to desktop issues, either- although it has a minimize to desktop issue at random times. :roll:

what video cards or integrated graphics type (and video driver versions) do these computers use? I'm interested in knowing what card/driver combinations work with Vista and RT3 patches 1.05 or greater and which don't and also which versions of vista (32 bit / 64 bit, home basic home premium etc.)

Also other hardware may have a bearing - if someone can get RT3 working on vista its not vista itself where the problem is but in the hardware or drivers being used or in RT3 itself. In fact if patches up to 1.03 work and 1.05 and above don't RT3 itself is the likely problem.
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ostlandr
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

The Compaq Presario SR5130NX desktop (AMD Athlon dual core, 1 gig RAM) has the NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE, the Vista drivers for which seem to be completely incompatble with RRT3- the game crashes at the title screen. Have tried every update, beta video driver, Vista hotfix, etc. available, but nothing works.

The Acer laptop (Intel Pentium dual core, 1 gig RAM) has an Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950. That seems to love RRT3. Will try to remember to look up the driver version. It ran RRT3 fine "out of the box" and automatic updates haven't killed it yet.


Silverback wrote:
ostlandr wrote:Just to confuse everybody, I am currenly running the 1.06 patch in Vista Home Premium on the family laptop, an Acer Aspire 5570Z (5570-2067).

In contrast, RRT3 will not run at all on the new Vista desktop (Compaq Presario.) Tried every possible combination of version and compatibility setting, lots of patches, etc. No good.

I can't explain it, but it just works on the laptop. No crash to desktop issues, either- although it has a minimize to desktop issue at random times. :roll:

what video cards or integrated graphics type (and video driver versions) do these computers use? I'm interested in knowing what card/driver combinations work with Vista and RT3 patches 1.05 or greater and which don't and also which versions of vista (32 bit / 64 bit, home basic home premium etc.)

Also other hardware may have a bearing - if someone can get RT3 working on vista its not vista itself where the problem is but in the hardware or drivers being used or in RT3 itself. In fact if patches up to 1.03 work and 1.05 and above don't RT3 itself is the likely problem.
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Orange46
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Silverback wrote:
ostlandr wrote: In fact if patches up to 1.03 work and 1.05 and above don't RT3 itself is the likely problem.
This makes a lot of sense to me.

I tried loading CtC as noted earlier, but I think that I had essentially done this a few months ago, as it seemed that all (most?) of the files already existed on my pc. I had purged and reloaded RT3 so many times that eventually I think that I just left the files in place and changed the exe. I still have 1.05 and 1.06 exe's in my file, but the 1.04 beta is the one that's linked to my desktop icon.

However, now I've developed a new problem, although others have noted it elsewhere. I tried to test a new (and very interesting) scenario developed using CtC and the scenario crashed on the first try after 1 month, and on several subsequent attempts at the end of the 1st year. Others have been able to play the new scenario and an earlier scenario developed in the same environment by the same author is playable on my pc. So, even though I can play some CtC stuff, it looks like I can't play everything devolped using CtC.
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Thawed Out
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

I have been pretty much of the opinion that the new crappy drivers that nVidia has been putting out are the primary reason that RRT3 doesn't work, or maybe it's the backward compatibility issues with DX10. I think that some of the graphical fixes that came in v1.05patch aren't able to work with the either the new drivers or with DX10 (Windows Vista ships with DX10, not DX9, and RRT3 was origially written for DX8.x). I know that there have been a lot of backward compatibility issues with DX10 in other games, and MS warned before the release of DX10 that they were not designing it for backwards compatibility, rather DX10 was going to be a new evolution to the DX series. And of course, in their infinite wisdom, MS refuses to fix that issue (and continues to alienate many people in the process). And of course, nVidia is responding mostly to the "hacker" crowd that has been improving their drivers for some years, and in the process have created a support problem for nVidia due to people installing these un-official drivers and then complaining to nVidia when they don't work right, hence now the inability to modify nVidia's inbuilt game profiles without the nHancer utility. I had originally thought that the problem was with the fixes introduced with the 1.05 patch, but I am thinking more that they are on the driver or D10 side of things (and daily I'm thinking more DX10) My current machine is running a BFG Tech 8500GT gpu, and as long as I stick with the 1.04 beta, then everything works well enough, I can use all of the CtC content and all of the new engines and rolling stock mods, but 1.06 is still out of my reach :(

btw... does anyone happen to know how to unpack the .pk4 files? I remember there used to be a utility out there somewhere, but I have been unable to locate it, and discovered that Doom3 uses the same file extension, but tried using Dragon on the RT3 files and it didn't work. I really want to do some skinning... I've been getting tired of doing airplanes for FS2004 and FSX, and want to give these a try, especially the modern locos (we really need some Amtrak AMDs and FP45s, and some SP, D&RGW, BNSF and UP paints for the GP7 and GP35 Doubles.)
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ostlandr
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

DirectX 10 is IMHO usless bloatware. Last I knew there still weren't any games designed to take advantage of it's alleged new features, and it kills lots of older games so that folks like me who foolishly upgraded to a Vista PC are SOL.
Thawed Out wrote:I have been pretty much of the opinion that the new crappy drivers that nVidia has been putting out are the primary reason that RRT3 doesn't work, or maybe it's the backward compatibility issues with DX10. I think that some of the graphical fixes that came in v1.05patch aren't able to work with the either the new drivers or with DX10 (Windows Vista ships with DX10, not DX9, and RRT3 was origially written for DX8.x). I know that there have been a lot of backward compatibility issues with DX10 in other games, and MS warned before the release of DX10 that they were not designing it for backwards compatibility, rather DX10 was going to be a new evolution to the DX series. And of course, in their infinite wisdom, MS refuses to fix that issue (and continues to alienate many people in the process). And of course, nVidia is responding mostly to the "hacker" crowd that has been improving their drivers for some years, and in the process have created a support problem for nVidia due to people installing these un-official drivers and then complaining to nVidia when they don't work right, hence now the inability to modify nVidia's inbuilt game profiles without the nHancer utility. I had originally thought that the problem was with the fixes introduced with the 1.05 patch, but I am thinking more that they are on the driver or D10 side of things (and daily I'm thinking more DX10) My current machine is running a BFG Tech 8500GT gpu, and as long as I stick with the 1.04 beta, then everything works well enough, I can use all of the CtC content and all of the new engines and rolling stock mods, but 1.06 is still out of my reach :(

btw... does anyone happen to know how to unpack the .pk4 files? I remember there used to be a utility out there somewhere, but I have been unable to locate it, and discovered that Doom3 uses the same file extension, but tried using Dragon on the RT3 files and it didn't work. I really want to do some skinning... I've been getting tired of doing airplanes for FS2004 and FSX, and want to give these a try, especially the modern locos (we really need some Amtrak AMDs and FP45s, and some SP, D&RGW, BNSF and UP paints for the GP7 and GP35 Doubles.)
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

DX10 games:

Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures

Alan Wake

Assassin's Creed (PC)

BioShock

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway

Call of Juarez

Chrome 2

Company of Heroes with 1.7 patch

Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts

Crysis

Dragon Age

EVE Online with patch Q2 2008

Far Cry 2

Fallout 3

Flight Simulator X: Acceleration

Flight Simulator X: Adrenaline

FPS Creator X10

Half-Life 2: Episode Two

Half-Life 2: Episode Three

Gears of War - No actual DX10 features, only difference is Anti-Aliasing is enabled.

Guild Wars 2

Hellgate: London

Lord Of The Rings Online: Shadows Of Angmar

Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

Portal

PT Boats: Knights of the sea

Splinter Cell: Conviction

Starcraft II

Stargate Worlds

Team Fortress 2

THEY

Universe at War: Earth Assault

Unreal Tournament 3

Warhound

World in Conflict


I'd recommend cross posting this here.

Or, barring that, read this, then, if you can, do it ;-)

Czar "Vista's a weird one" Mohab.
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ostlandr
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

I stand happily corrected!

As to Dual Boot with XP:

"Zathros not understand. But, Zathros do. Zathros good at doings, not good at understandings."
Czar Mohab wrote:DX10 games:

Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures

Alan Wake

Assassin's Creed (PC)

BioShock

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway

Call of Juarez

Chrome 2

Company of Heroes with 1.7 patch

Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts

Crysis

Dragon Age

EVE Online with patch Q2 2008

Far Cry 2

Fallout 3

Flight Simulator X: Acceleration

Flight Simulator X: Adrenaline

FPS Creator X10

Half-Life 2: Episode Two

Half-Life 2: Episode Three

Gears of War - No actual DX10 features, only difference is Anti-Aliasing is enabled.

Guild Wars 2

Hellgate: London

Lord Of The Rings Online: Shadows Of Angmar

Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

Portal

PT Boats: Knights of the sea

Splinter Cell: Conviction

Starcraft II

Stargate Worlds

Team Fortress 2

THEY

Universe at War: Earth Assault

Unreal Tournament 3

Warhound

World in Conflict


I'd recommend cross posting this here.

Or, barring that, read this, then, if you can, do it ;-)

Czar "Vista's a weird one" Mohab.
Watch this space for Equus Ferrius Corporation's website! Soon to build biomass fueled steam locomotives, and lease a short line. We're going for it!
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Digging up bones here. :mrgreen:

I do recall reading somewhere that someone was successful in patching RRT3 on a Vista machine by first deleting (or moving - preferably) the RRT3.exe file before installing the patches.
Since I don't run Vista I can't say for sure whether this works or not.
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

!!! Just came across this page !!!!

didn't read through this whole thread, but will do so in the evening

http://kb.gametap.cust-serv.com/gametap ... type=match

I couldn't check it out yet, because I don't have the PC with Vista yet...

but might help
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Well, that link won't work for me because I won't allow their cookies. If I have to allow their cookies just to view the page, then I don't trust their cookies so I won't allow them. ;-)
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

:-D

anyway, on my search for compatible and non-compatible (as well as so-so compatible :-) ) software I came across this (last sentence being interesting!)

Railroad Tycoon 3 with v1.05 patch and Coast to Coast Expansion - crashes as soon as the main menu loads with no explanation. I've tried all compatibility modes with no success; I've tried RT3's batch files that load its safe modes/windowed/no sound modes without success. Intro video plays but that's it. On Vista 64-bit, AMD Athlon X2 4200+, GeForce 7600GT.
!!!!!!!!!I also experienced this problem running vista 32 bit until I disabled Windows Defender, while not the ideal solution it should allow the game to run problem free. !!!!!!!!!!!!



EDIT: here's another link....some solutions, some work for some, some don't work for some.... :-?
http://www.ntcompatible.com/Railroad_Ty ... 13397.html
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Thawed Out wrote:btw, if you are considering Vista... STAY AWAY from Home Basic... spend the extra $$$ on Home Premium or better.. Basic is a real pain in the behind to manage files in....
*!*!*! (smack))))

just purchased a new Dell notebook (hasn't arrived yet) and...well, I didn't consider Vista...it comes with the notebook as a trojan horse !*00*! !*th_dwn*! (*!grr!*)
so I really didn't want to spend ANY more money on that I&$$!?/+'* Vista...hell, there are at least 6 (or is it 8?) Versions of that operating system!! !*th_dwn*! !*th_dwn*!

considering downgrading to my old XP again, but then there are a few features which won't work WITHOUT Vista ....double !*th_dwn*! !*th_dwn*!
seems like purchasing a new *graphics-adventure opearting system game* forces you to buy a new computer due to crazy system requirements and, buying a new computer, in turn, requires to get a new operating system :evil:
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Thank you HighVoltage!!!!

Did a clean install of RRT3 on the desktop off the CD, then installed the 1.04 beta patch from gamershell, ran it in compatibility mode for Windows 98/ME (disable visual themes) with the " -s9" switch, and it works! Never seen RRT3 with the graphics set all the way up before- it's gorgeous!

Gonna play around with adding user content if I can. Wish me luck!

HighVoltage wrote:!!! Just came across this page !!!!

didn't read through this whole thread, but will do so in the evening

http://kb.gametap.cust-serv.com/gametap ... type=match

I couldn't check it out yet, because I don't have the PC with Vista yet...

but might help
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

congrats :-D ::!**! !*th_up*!


np. I just posted the links there ;-) not knowing if the tips there would lead to success or not - but anyway, glad it did for you, so I hope it will do for me as well :mrgreen:



EDIT to above:
lucky me DID purchase the Vista Home PREMIUM edition with the notebook, as this was the lowest version that was offered with it :mrgreen: hip hip ::!**!

OH, WAIT.... it is STILL Vista (smack)))) (smack)))) |--0 :mrgreen:
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Hawk wrote:I do recall reading somewhere that someone was successful in patching RRT3 on a Vista machine by first deleting (or moving - preferably) the RRT3.exe file before installing the patches.
this is mainly the thing with installing the C2C to a ghost directory and then move and overwrite everything BUT the RT3.exe file.... isn't it?! :?:

btw 1.04 beta works fine for me here including all C2C addons :-)
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

HighVoltage wrote:this is mainly the thing with installing the C2C to a ghost directory and then move and overwrite everything BUT the RT3.exe file.... isn't it?! :?:
Not from what I understood when I read it. The poster was saying he moved the RT3.exe file from the main directory before installing any patches.
It seems the problem with Vista has to do with overwriting existing exe files. Apparently it doesn't like doing that. So - by moving the existing RT3.exe file out of the main RRT3 directory, the patch doesn't have to overwrite the existing exe so presumably the patched exe will then work.

I would strongly caution against deleting the existing exe file though, in case you have to revert back to it. Simply move it to another location on your hard drive.
I can't test this because I don't run Vista but I am curious if this works or not.

This trick supposedly works with the 1.05 and 1.06 patches.
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

ah, I see...will try it out



btw tried this solution
http://www.gametap.com/forums/thread.js ... 0&tstart=0 as well as this thread: http://www.gametap.com/forums/thread.js ... 751&#11751
(see also http://kb.gametap.cust-serv.com/gametap ... type=match )
but even the downloadlinks for these 2 files didn't work ... anymore

but from what I get this is another special release / software support type of thing like that one from Steam or whatever it's called...
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

That release from Steam, or whatever it's called, doesn't come with the Map Builder and it's heavily modified and it seems you can't install the 1.05 or the 1.06 patch on it in any system, although I believe it comes with a modified version of the C to C expansion.
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

HOOOORRRRRAAAYYYYYYYY ::!**! ::!**! ::!**!

I've finally nailed it!

running 1.06 on Vista Home Premium 32 bit + nVidia card (8700M GT SLI) now!!!



did a blank install of RT3,
then a ghost install of Coast to Coast and moved these files into the RT3 folder afterwards,
did the same with the 1.06 patch: ghost install into a directory where the original 1.05 was located in, copied these files into the RT3 folder again
and finally started the game with the 1.04 beta exe file!

I went into the editor, and all additional buildings like the ore mine and so on were there!
On the start menu screen it EVEN SAYS 1.06 beta patch (NOTE: before it always said 1.04 beta patch!!!)
(please also note that I installed the final 1.06 release downloaded from this palced today - file was "setup06.exe" with 24.780KB!)

No special settings like Compatibility mode or anything like that (disabling desktop themes...) used

this said, I didn't test every feature of the 1.06 if its working correctly - but the fact that they are displayed in the game is VERY GOOD!


::!**!
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Re: RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution Unread post

Vista's "Trusted Computing" strikes again. Specifically the 'sealed storage' and probably the 'memory curtaining' aspects of the TC model.

Older or otherwise non-standard (according to Microsoft programming rules/guidelines) updates or patches may not work because the operating system might protect the .exe or .dll files involved in an update. Even if the update goes through successfully, if certain criteria isn't met, Vista will go back and replace the updated protected files (like program executables and DLLs) with whatever version it was caching at the time (the most prior version in most cases). That's not a 100% accurate statement, but it's true for most instances where this issue occurs and good enough for a topic post that isn't intended to be a white paper on Vista's security and end-user so-called "Trusted Computing" model.

That's why the solution involved retaining a copy of the updated versions of the .exe files and manually copying them back in -again - after patching. I'd be willing to bet that the prior crashes/symptoms were exactly like what you'd get if you tried to run CtC + v1.05 data files with a 1.03 or older RT3.exe file on any system, not just Vista. And if another person re-copies the files in at the 'wrong' time, Vista will over-write the change - again. So timing comes into play when trying that method. One additional 'trick' if this doesn't work is to logoff or even just power off, right after you copy the file by hand. But that's not a very elegant way of doing things.

Trusted Computing, protected file caching, and "virtualization" of protected folders (essentially presenting a decoy) of program and system folders are all potentially beneficial from a system security and stability perspective - but my biggest gripe is that if you don't know the ins/outs of Vista you've given up control of your computer and the programs and data that exist on your computer (literally, with no exaggeration). It's a slippery slope though. The days where your data is assumed private are long gone, whether you run Vista now or wait until some other operating system comes along, Trusted Computing is de-facto part of what computing is and will be for the mainstream end-user.

[Edited: I found the editor in my Steam install. In the game's "Extras" menu just as described in the .PDF copy of the manual. I loaded up a Spain.TGA heightmap and flew around with the camera. Looks awesome! There's also a skinning, portrait, and logo creation 'suite' of utilities and batch programs.]
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