Hawk & Badger Railroad Forum

In order to build ports and warehouses in a scenario there are certain things that need to be done first. Usually this is done by the scenario creator but can be done by the player.

The most important thing is to have the 'UnOfficial 1.06 Patch' installed or this won't work.

In the editor it's first advisable to name the port/warehouse ( Grandma Ruth for this tip and milo for implementing it in the 1.06 patch). This will help you find the port/warehouse with the recipe you want.
NOTE: The proper naming convention is colon name percent sign 1 (:Name %1)
Then you need to make sure it's added in the 'Industry (Overall)' list.
Then it will be available to build in the scenario.

In the editor, it mentions not putting supply and demand above 4 units a year for any one commodity, I think. It says something about not being good for the economy. Is that true? What really happens if we set the supply or demand of something high, like 8-12 a year? I have a very large map (1024 x 840) and I have 3 cities set on the edges, far from most commercial centers, and I want to put in wearhouses that have a high demand for certain cargoes. I want the demand so high because shipping will take a long time, and I want to ship a lot of certain things. What is the thinking on this. Wearhouse and port economics seems fickle and tricky to me.

I have often used 8 or more supply at a port. On a smaller map with short hauls it can affect the economy but if you have only one port or warehouse doing this, is not that big a problem.

Wooly, see the thread about Crystal Cotton and download that map. It has three warehouses on the edge of the map. There seems to be a problem with having demand that high, that I noticed. The demand is so high the freight travels on its own and there isnt enough freight at the terminal for you to haul.

Adding on to this thread about ports and warehouses....

Others may already know this, but it took some experimenting for me find this out: overland cargo (the black rail cars) on a map cannot move across a lake or ocean to a demand site (like a factory) UNLESS there is a port available on BOTH sides of the water body. Cargo will not make any movement into a lakle or ocean without a port - regardless of the demand. With a port on just one side of the waterbody, cargo will drift into the water body but not go too far - even though the factory demanding the cargo is just a few pixels away on the other side of the lake. It takes two ports - one on each side of the ocean or lake.

Water borne cargo will not come ashore anywhere except at a port. Cargo will float right past the shadow of a factory on a shoreline in a stream towards a port. Once ashore via the port, it will then travel back down the land to the factory.

And...it doesn't matter what cargo the port is supplying or demanding, ANY cargo type will move through it and across a lake/ocean to another port in response to a demand. The port can be set to supply bauxite and demand cheese, for example, yet livestock, logs, wool, milk and all other cargo types will move through the port into the water and towards another port which also supplies bauxite and demands cheese. Any port recipe will do to get cargo into and out of the water.

The only difference I can find between an ocean and a lake is that the ocean is ALWAYS at sea level (0 elevation), yet a lake can be at sea level up to the highest elevation on the map. Otherwise, a lake and an ocean seem to behave the same - especially towards overland cargo flow.

Thanks Oilcan. I hadn't realised that - it's absolutely fascinating and useful to know.

Overland cargo (the black rail cars) on a map cannot move across a lake or ocean to a demand site (like a factory) UNLESS there is a port available on BOTH sides of the water body ... It takes two ports - one on each side of the ocean or lake. OILCAN

I have been playing around with Port/Warehouse recipes. As far as anyone knows, will cargo leaving a port, travel to more than one port?

Also: Does this look like overkill? OR

I almost forgot, how does the maximum annual production effect/affect the recipe?

99CarsUNTRAINED: I'll probably tell you more than you wanted to know...

99CarsUNTRAINED wrote:I have been playing around with Port/Warehouse recipes. As far as anyone knows, will cargo leaving a port, travel to more than one port?

Yes - but not often. Cargo of the same type travels to the closest and strongest demand. For example, wool travels to the closest textile mill. If the closest demand is across a sea, the cargo (wool) will travel out of its way to a port, cross the sea to another port and then resume its path to the demand (textile mill).

If there is not a close and strong demand, cargo may scatter into several paths. For example, coal may travel into a sea from one port but scatter to several other ports to satisfy the demands of houses near each port. This will change when a strong demand appears on the map, then the coal will travel to the closest port to the strong demand.

Also: Does this look like overkill?

Without knowing the 'story' of the game you are making, it is hard to say if the mix of cargos for the warehouse or port is overkill. The amount of cargo being supplied at one warehouse/port would be about what a farm or mine would supply in a year (2-3 per year). The amount of steel and cheese demanded is less than a factory would produce (3-8 per year). You have to balance this with the production of other goods on the map. If in a test run, you feel the warehouses/ports are putting out too much cargo or not creating a strong enough demand, then adjust your numbers.

I almost forgot, how does the maximum annual production effect/affect the recipe?

The maximum annual production only affects the exchange of oil for diesel. You have set it up for one diesel to be supplied with each oil delivered to the warehouse or port. The maxium annual production puts a top limit on how many times this exchange can take place: 4 in your case. If your trains deliver 5 or more loads of oil, only 4 diesels will be produced.

There is more.......a warehouse (or port) turns into a small factory when the demand/supply exchange option is used. The warehouse/port can, but may not, produce up to four units of diesel each year by itself, with no oil ever brought to the warehouse/port for exchange. There is a formula buried somewhere in the game code which determines how many, if any, of the four units of diesel will be produced by the port/warehouse each year.

There is one more twist to this as well. This is why the exchange option is complicated – so many twists. If the price of oil bottoms out and there is no demand at the port/warehouse, then oil will not be exchanged for diesel. The port/warehouse will not accept oil until the price and demand recovers.

So, there are three things to keep in mind when you set up an exchange option:
1. The port/warehouse may produce its own supply
2. The supply from the port/warehouse is counted with train loads towards the annual maximum allowed.
3. There has to be a demand for the supply for an exchange to work.

See, I told you this would be more than you wanted to know.

OilCan wrote:See, I told you this would be more than you wanted to know.

On the contrary, your in depth explanations are much appreciated. I am tweaking the "Alternate USA" scenario by adding AI players and broadening the scope of the economy.

Thanks for the assist.

Hello,

referring to the first post.

I tried what Hawk show there.

Nothing comes out!!!

I re-installed patch 1.06.

Still nothing.

what can be wrong????

Update on the naming convention...

: New York displays as New York
:%1 of New York displays as Port of New York
: New York %1 displays as New York Port

Or if it is a Warehouse, the %1 will return the word Warehouse.

I will try.

will let you know if it works, with my version.

Hawk wrote:In order to build ports and warehouses in a scenario there are certain things that need to be done first. Usually this is done by the scenario creator but can be done by the player.

The most important thing is to have the 'UnOfficial 1.06 Patch' installed or this won't work.

In the editor it's first advisable to name the port/warehouse ( Grandma Ruth for this tip and milo for implementing it in the 1.06 patch). This will help you find the port/warehouse with the recipe you want.

Maybe you all knew this already, but there is a way to add a port, using a specific recipe, in version 1.05. It's not as nice, and not as flexible, but it works. I found this out because I had a whole load of goods stuck in a "corner" of the ocean at the mouth of River Thames while playing the New Beginnings scenario: bug being discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=5&p=41145#p41145.

So I thought, hey, if I put a Port there maybe the goods will sort themselves out? And sure enough, placing the port works, with a recipe of my choice. I don't know whether it'll allow the goods milling about in the ocean to land, but - staying on the topic of this thread - here's how you do it:

1. Create your port recipe, just as Hawk describes. If you're on 1.05, don't worry about the naming convention (which is, I'm sure, important in 1.06 to make it appear on the Industry list). Just note where it appears, in order, in the list of port recipes. I thought this map needed a bit more Uranium and Iron, so my new recipe appears at no.7 out of 12:
Note that while I did use the recommended naming convention, in 1.05 this does you no good. The port does not appear on the Industry (Overall) list, which is a disadvantage compared to 1.06. It means that you can't set this kind of port to appear automatically in certain regions: you can only build it explicitly, either as a scenario designer at the start of your scenario, or (like me) in the middle of a game, to make RRT3 more fun and/or work around the games' many bugs... .

So how do you place this port, with this particular recipe?

2. Back in the Editor Map, look through the list of buildings available to you to build. Right at the end is a list of ports:
They don't tell you anything about what recipe they use, and there are - count'em - 11. 11? There were 12 in the port recipes list! What's going on? Scrolling up, I found another Port sitting in some kind of area of localised rational alphabetical order:
So, counting down from the first one, I selected the 6th Port in the long list at the end (1+6=7), and voila, here's my Uranium port:
(On the order of buildings in the lsit, YMMV, especially given the number of different buildings you might have installed).

Port and warehouse recipe generator
The attached spreadsheet creates recipes with equal probabilities for each commodity. However, for some situations like my South Balkan map, I use another variant that favors specific commodities. These commodities are placed on the top of the list and in place of plain randomisation I use the product RAND()*RAND() so that they have more chances of appearing in the lists. Some could also be completely ruled out and thus omitted from the list altogether, it's up to each individual scenario.
Automatic recalculation must be off and only be done when pressing (F9)

Interesting excercise in spreadsheet usage. However, you do know right that port/warehouse exchanges work just like at a regular industry? The output cargo price needs to be greater than the input cargo price. For example Isotopes -> Iron or Textile -> Waste are practically useless. The facility will run at a loss and make only a tiny amount of product each year (conversion volume is dependent on profitability).

When you put more than one conversion/exchange into one port/warehouse, the one that is more profitable will be favored. When I first read your post and the term "equal" I thought that you have caluclated conversion/exchange possibilities with near identical profitability. . . . However, oversupply of one type will probably still give that conversion/exchange preference, so it's difficult to recommend this usage for anybody but experienced map builders.

Yup. Unprofitable conversions simply don't convert, or not to usable amounts. It's a common beginner's mistake with ports and warehouses.

There's also the point that although the conversions listed may theoretically have equal probabilities in some situations, they are influenced by local cargo supply and demand. So the theory may go out the window in practice, due to what the prices for input and output cargos actually are in that situation. In practice you have to test ports and warehouses in specific circumstances to make sure they are acting the way you want them to.