Trans Siberian Railway

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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Hawk
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Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

The following text is a compilation of what was salvaged from the old Gathering Forum. It contains postings from several different people.
Thanks goes out to Wolverine for putting this all together.

Hawk


Trans-Siberian Railway
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The history and events in building the world's longest continuous railroad.
You absolutely need the CtC upgrade to play this map.
Well, after 8 months of work this is ready to go wide beta.
H&P Map Archive
(updated site so there is more bandwidth too.)
http://216.219.140.128/RT2/MapArchive/
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Just downloaded it. I've been waiting for this.
I thought you might decide not to fool with it, after the minor update.
I'll get back to ya'.
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It seems from the manager events that you think that fuel costs are modified percentually. This is not true. Fuel consumption is ranked by levels. So if you take any engine and reduce the fuel cost with -15, then the fuel consumption become as low as it can get (Outstanding).
Otherwise, good job.
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wrote: Fuel consumption is ranked by levels.

I didn't know that. I had assumed it was % like in RRT2 where I borrowed the manager skills.
Fixed now.
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Good. BTW, Great Northern has the same problem and in addition the a-Manager 12 event in GN should be status not monthly.
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I tested the differences in fuel use levels and I can't tell if there's any difference at all. I skipped on fuel usage skill and use better engine maintenance as a replacement in all the manager maps.
BTW, Prince of Steel also has managers now.
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The map a.s. is imo very good and I enjoyed playing it without technological thinking.
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Must be the way I'm trying to do this map.
Can never get the first connection in the 5yr limit. If I go industry first, the pittance they make spurs no ability to expand ahead of demand. The connection route just dies a quick death; doesn't seem to be enough money in it.
I am curious why the 2ndRR you control has no "access rights" anywhere. You can't build track with it; buy industries with it; so why is it included at all?
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The Ussurian branch opens up June 1891, when the czarevich dedicates the RR in Vladivostok.
I don't want to give too many hints but you can buy two lumber mills or even a steel mill with the original money.
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Wooot!
I'll have to look more closely. I have tried building a lumber mill; the money is good, just not enough to spark a "boom" within the company
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I realized that the editor text could also be wrong and it doesn't change fuel consumption by levels even if it says levels. I have seen both it used as levels (saw one instance where the event claimed that 2 levels = 25%) and as percent in TopPop maps.
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You are right they are levels. They rate usage such as 'Good', 'Average' and 'Poor'. But I did some testing by setting it to a certain level and running trains between two cities. Looking at the effect on engine fuel costs over several years and I could not see any difference other than small random fluctuations. I was hoping to see a 5% or 10% or something difference so to gauge its value. There are many other things to offer for a management skill so I just passed on fuel usage.
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I really like the map, and can only start out on easy, but twice I've got up to about 1905 and get a dialog box stating that I had fulfilled the goals for the bronze, but I hadn't yet (trains were on the way, but deliveries not made)(I also get the pop-up from the Czar re the 2 loads of troops to Vlad), and another box gives me a set of goals for the silver(which extend for about 7 years or so). Then at the end of the year I get a message that I failed to meet the goals(which if I read the scenario correct give me to the end of 07 if it was talking about the bronze?) Anyone else have a similar problem? {Game ends of course and I can't play any further 'cause it doesn't give out track sections}
Thanks.
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Thanks for the reporty nyc. I looked at the map to see what was going on. It had two problems.
I used a variable for two different things so you got credit for the goal loads even if they didn't arrive. Also found the lose -no bronze event was set to all players so one of the AI's triggered this. Not you.
These are fixed now in Beta 2.
Hint - You don't have to start laying track at Moscow. If Perm has steel you might want to start the line there and ship steel to Chelyabinsk to reduce the cost of track before connecting to Moscow.
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Took your advice Mobius.
Bought (instead of building) the lumber mill, shipped lumber to Chelyabinsk; got the connection to Moscow!!!
Then I went broke
I'm improving at least...
Will have to download Beta MII
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Looks like another very well done map Mobius! It took some doing but I finally made the first goal, connection from Moscow to Chelyabinsk on expert. I just happend to get lucky and find two saw mills cheap the first year before they really started producing. I can't wait to play the final version, keep up the great work Mobius!
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I tried running two more games on easy(which enables me to get to 1907); in one the barracks in Moscow disappeared about 1905(couldn't win that one). In the second, which I saved in about 1905, I had made the connection to Vlad about a year or so earlier, had some troops at Vlad that I sent to Moscow and had a bunch of trains waiting in Moscow to go to Vlad with exclusive troop(single car) loads. Finally got one on its way but when it got to Vlad it didn't get counted(at least not in the ledger) I didn't check it out but the toop production in Moscow seems to be very slow. (Oh, and I do have the station covering the barracks).
Still a great map.
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I don't know why they weren't counted in the ledger. Maybe there is some sort of delay in reporting. I know the showed up when I was testing. Weapons counting seemed kind of slow though.
But to insure there are troops in Moscow I'm building barracks in the next version.
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You replied before I could say oops.
I was carrying a partial loads of troops (60% full ), so thats why they didn't register.
But someone has to explain this to me. I sat on top of Moscow and watched the station figures. The toop figure started at 0% in Nov and went up to 60% a few months before the next Nov, then quickly pops to 100% that Nov, then drops to 40% and loads a car with 60% Does the game do this stuff all the time?
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Just want to know if this is working as inteneded.
Built a tunnel out of Irkutsk to connect to a small village and it collapsed
Next year, built another tunnel and it collapsed
The following year we saddled up the yaks to go over the mountains and the rails washed out; well this IS cheaper ; rebuilt the rails and they washed out again.
Is this supposed to drop the hint that this is not the way to go?
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Yes, its working as intended. That's a very dangerous mountain area.
A safer route can be found.
Trans-Siberian Travelogue
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Very nice map.
I am curious why there are no Weapon Factories to be built; doesn't seem to be enough weapons coming out of Moscow to make the requirement...but then I guess if I had made the connection earlier i would have had more time
Troops also seem a little thin.
Great map for sitting back and building! I tend to continue long after my failed attempts just connecting and building
Nice job Mobius!
PS. I feel a lil bad about my ignorance of this epic bit of RR lore; I have an aunt; born in Russia and raised in Harbin where her father was one of the Russian engineers building the RR
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If you could build them then you could just build one outside Vladivostok and run burn track to Moscow.
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The official release of this map, version 1.0 is effective.
This map works best with the 1.05 patch.
This is a real tough map so getting just bronze is no shame. The difficult part is rounding up enough troops for the goal. The new changes hopefully will supply enough in time.
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If you start over by Chelyabinsk, then do you ignore the "haul grain to the Export Link" request from the Czar? (By the way, the request says to haul to either of the two Export Links, but I can only see one, south of Moscow. Is there another somewhere?)
I've been tearing my hair out over this one too, for the past two weeks! I'm playing on Expert, so there's no way to make a rail-based start in the first year; there just isn't enough cargo to ship. Even if there is a steel mill at Perm, after a couple of runs to and from Chelyabinsk, the well dries up and you can't make any money to expand the rail line eastward.
I've got 5 different starting scenarios saved, each with a different distribution of starting resources/industries, and have tried them all with different strategies, but the Industry first way seems to do the best in all of them. The problem is, if you don't use up your yearly versts of track by the end of the year, you lose them. It would be nice if the unused track from one year carried over to the next year. Since it doesn't, you have to start your Moscow-Chelyabinsk connection well enough in advance of the time limit in order to make it (I got screwed on this one a few times before I caught on).
I like the idea of Managers, but I would like to see the option of "No Manager" in every choice. Sometimes I don't want (or need) a Manager and would like the option to "Just say No". When I do want a Manager, it's hard to know which one to choose because I can't go back to the Ledger and look at the books to see which would be the best for my company. Would it be possible to display things like Overhead, Engine Maintainance etc., or other things in the dialog? If not, then perhaps a month ahead of time, have a dialog announcing which Managers will be available the next month, to give a chance to look at the books?
It's a great map Mobius, and has captured my exclusive attention for quite a while. I'll probably be at it until I beat it. As with other "problems", I'm like a dog with a bone, and keep gnawing away despite the fact that there are other things to do with my time that would be more productive (a fact which is constanly being reinforced by She Who Must Be Obeyed.)
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Oh, I removed one of the export links. It was around a port down by the Sea of Azoz. Since most players ignore the haul grain request I used the territory to make Korea. Grain sales is not something to be distracted with for the first 6 years.
I usually start near Perm. Buy lumber mills. You can build at the end of the year. I usually go into industry for the first 2 years and 11 months. Then build track Dec. of year 3. That way you will get to build in years 4 and 5. The next year build before May. That gets you 4 years of builds in 5 and half years.
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That's kind of the way I've been playing it, except usually start a line from Moscow to Nizhty (or however you spell it) in Dec 88. Will have to restart and try the Perm-Chelyabinsk line to see which is more profitable for the first couple of years.
By the way, have you (Mobius) ever won Gold on Expert in this map? If the author can't do it it's probably next to impossible for the rest of us.
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Actually, I haven't won gold. Silver once. There are 5 possible silver goals and 5 possible gold goals. I randomly got the gold goal that isn't RR based but based on Czar approval (I shift-E to see what flags were set). So I changed the map events after that to give the player with that goal a chance to go for another challenge. But since that happens in 1915 and the map ends in 1918 you don't have much time to complete it.
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I finally made bronze on medium
The scenario is very interesting. What I dont like however is that it took me about 10 restarts of the game to be able to start with enough resources: possibility to buy a steel plant at Perm. I was never in a situation to be able to buy 2 lumber mills. One is usually possible but this is not enough for a reasonable start and to be able to connect Moscow in may 1891.
Could something be done to have a more consistent level of resources to start?
I also found that the number of steel loads and lumber loads transported to Chelyabinsk are not counted at the begin of the game. Later some seem to get counted.
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Alright I am definitly missing something in this scenario. I just wandered over to my sister company and started setting them up...all well and good but when I got back I was horrified to find out that my trains had kittens (or was it my kittens had had trains?). Anyway I left a rail line that was running a respectible 5 trains and came back 8 months later to find that the crazy AI had bought another freaking 9 trains...now I know why it goes broke...theres not enough cargo to support that many trains on this route. Also the AI is utterly fixated with 8 car trains and I can't fathom why.
Anyway can some one explain to me what the solution is to this crazed AI problem - am I doomed to have the AI wreck my rail line when ever I go to look in on its sister company?
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I think if you read the line of posts here you will realize that you never let time run when the main RR is not under your control.
The AI changes everything.
For some hints on play check the advice at the bottom of the page:
http://www.exdx.net/RT3/page24.html
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Nor should I allow the AI to have any money. I have to wonder a bit why this was not all done with just a single company. Alternitivly I got the impression from the Jagged Allience map that there was some way to limit the AIs ability to build track or do anything while one was away - though maybe that stopped the AI from doing anything new until the company was merged.
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I made a small change in this map. The second small RR now has no money to pay dividends until it officially starts. So lets the player just concentrate on the main RR until then. Version 1.3b
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ALL RIGHT
THIS ONE'S NEXT
Been waiting a long time to have a system WORTHY enough to play this one Mobius. Going to download this weekend. Just read this thread and now going to search the net on TSRR history.
From the looks of things, I'm going to be busy. I never was an industry magnet. Never did figure buying an industry that took 10 years to pay ROI was going to help when you need cashflow NOW. Maybe I'll hone my industry skills (what little I have).
Comments on AIs are interesting. I was surprised in my AZRR map they did a GREAT job of making money, at least down in the SP. Sounds like TSRR works the opposite.
So Mo - Where's the best place to get the most updated version?
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Here's the best one I found.
http://www.transsib.ru/Eng/city.htm
The industry purchased now will not pay off for 5-10 years in total. But the bankers notice your revenue is strong and give you a good credit rate so you can borrow a lot more.
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Well, guess it was bound to happen someday - - -
MY NEW MACHINE CRASHED TO DESKTOP
Had just rode a weapon train to Vlad and was catching the coffee (yea COFFEE, not TEA) back to Moscow. Then the Boxers destroyed all bridges in Manchuria. At first was not worried because I by-passed Manchuria completely - - - or so I thought.
While at a service tower, checked the train list. One could not reach station! Don't have the city name, but it starts with a B I think and it's the one way north of Vlad when you can turn west to head for a couple of cities that start with an S and Chita.
Anyway, the bridge there was blown up and when I rebuilt it, so did the game, CTDT. It was getting late and did not feel like analysis at that hour. Still, was a long perfect run while it lasted.
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Restarted again last night. Tried to figure what was going on at crash. Remember: March 1901 - 29 trains - just bought 29 P8s in global replace - economy goes Normal - took over Manchuria - Boxers blow bridge - build new bridge - - - CRASH!!!
Reload 1: March 1901 - 29 trains - took over Manchuria - economy goes Normal - *** NO BRIDGE ATTACK??? *** - bought about 15 P8s, one at a time - CRASH!!!
Reload 2: Same as first crash except DID NOT buy P8s - now July - bought ONE P8 (testing water/sand usage on long haul compared to Camelback) - now August - wife yelling - same result as a crash, almost?
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get yourself a decent pc
Seriously now: did you apply all latest patches on your new pc (ie: 1.05 after CtC)? Because there were problems with the game crashing to desktop on the dates the new trains become available in 1.04.
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I used the original disk, loaded what was it, 1.04?, then upgraded to C2C 1.05. Played Republic of Germany for Silver (if I recall), but don't remember if any new trains were used in that.
I think you may have hit it PJay. Perhaps I jumped a patch.
URRRGGGGGGG - NOW I KNOW. There's another reason I'll email you about when I get home. You get three quesses and the first two don't count.
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The map crashes on me too. I've never completed the game where I haven't had 1 crash. Average is 3. Autosave every 6 mos. will save most of your moves.
Probably because of too many events.
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There seems to be an exponential relationship between the number of events and the time it takes to produce a relatively error free map. Perhaps if we pool our data some math wiz can work out the relationship.
Warming Trend - 23 events, 3 days
Greening the Red Planet - 40 events, 5 days
Canada Bound - 87 events, 330 days, and a few changes are still needed
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Don't worry, I don't think it was your map, at least the problem I was having. Fixed that. Don't want to give away any secrets, so email (not PM) me.
On another matter, I was REAL PISSED when my trains delivered globs of "tea" to Moscow and THEY DID NOT GET LOGGED. Main reason seemed to be since you built Moscow in such a satanic manner on both sides of the river and BLOCKED, I thought I would be smart and build TWO stations, Moscow North and Moscow South.
I learned too late you made "Moscow District" so small, neither staition was inside it Didn't do any good to go to the editor and expand it. My last train load got there before 1907, but I guess because it was loaded BEFORE I changed the district boundary, I LOST.
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did get gold in this, so the event works.
Now that somebody did it I can tell one way for gold.
His gold path was through Switzerland and Paris.
If you put enough money in your Swiss bank and run for the border when the Bolsheviks come you can make a nice retirement living in Paris selling Faberge eggs.
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I was runnig this (again) and got to the Czar request to double track the RR for the gold(within 7 years). Only even though I was delivering steel and lumber to Chelyabinsk and Vladivastok like crazy the yearly buildable track versts remained at 225. When the seven years were up it denied me the gold but gave me the bronze.
Is it supposed to work this way?
This really is the best map, but very frustrating. Got the trip to Paris once selling eggs, on medium.
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Oh, you know, I may have made the bonus track expire after the RR is complete. That may be a flaw for this particular goal. I'll look at the map.
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Excellent Map!!!
After finding what works I finally had all the goals met but realized I had not started enough troop trains early enough. I cashed out on time with the last required loads about 4 cities out.
This is probably the best RT3 scenario out and I wish there were more like it.
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Very nice map.
After some trial and error managed to get gold on normal
andy-rails
Hobo
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Re: Trans-Siberian Railway Unread post

Great map! Quite complicated in events, very very interesting and good..congratulations to the author!
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Re: Trans-Siberian Railway Unread post

Is this scenario available for download?
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Hawk
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Re: Trans-Siberian Railway Unread post

Optimizer wrote:Is this scenario available for download?
Yes, in the Asia section.
Hawk
herocrafter

Re: Trans-Siberian Railway Unread post

There is a file: Khilkov.PK4 in the zip that I'm not sure where to put. Although not directly mentioned in the included readme there is mention of a portrait include. I take it thats the file but I don't know where to put it **!!!**
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Although I completed all the base requirements with 2 and a half years to spare, It still reaches 1907 and gives me a loss. Any hints, please?

Edit: I tried it on 1.6, trying it on 1.5 now
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Gumboots
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

It should work on either version. 1.05 maps will play on 1.06, but they are often a bit easier than intended on 1.06.

I haven't played this map myself, but I notice in the blurb at the start of this thread that some of the territories are apparently a bit on the small side.

As you sure all your stations for required cargoes were inside the territory limits? That's a fairly common mistake for people to make on maps that have haulage targets.
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

That element I've understood, when wondered why my tea (coffee) deliveries did not count to Moscow-South, loaded a save, built Moscow-North, re-targeted the trains - target reached easily. Troops were a bother, but reached with two years to spare, the log confirmed that. Weapons - effortlessly. Company was debt-free for some time now. Book value was about 50 mln. Railroads were united, doh. I can upload my save, if you'd like, I'd really love to complete this awesome scenario.
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Gumboots
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

I'll take a look at a copy of the map I have stashed, and see if I can spot anything.
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Thank you, I'd love to know what is going on before trying again on 1.05. By the way, when you revert to 1.05, the 1.06 saves aren't visible, I guess that is WAD.
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Gumboots
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

1.06 games won't work in 1.05. You can play a 1.05 map in 1.06, but you can't play a 1.06 map in 1.05.
If you start playing a 1.05 map in 1.06, it will be saved as 1.06, so no go with the save in 1.05.
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Gotcha, any luck with the map? Again, I have a few 1.06 saves I can provide...
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Gumboots
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

I've just checked out the readme.txt that comes with the map.
Gold and Silver goals are randomized and it may not be possible to always win them.
It also says this:
*WARNING* Goals will only work under the CtC patch updates.
Do you have the Coast to Coast Expansion installed?
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Yes, Coast to Coast is installed, and no Silver or Gold Goals ever appeared. Even Bronze does not activate, even though the goals are reached.
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Gumboots
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Sounds like the "randomised" goals the readme talks about. If no goals have come up, you might just have a play that is impossible to win.
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Randomized should mean a goal should appear, but none did. I've read the whole previous aggregated post, and that is the way it should seem to be. The only thing that ever popped up were 2 troops to Vlad, which I achieved, and an offer to embezzle a $1 mil of my personal cash to the Swiss bank. None of that changed the outcome, at 1907 I get a loss, even though original goals were fulfilled for Bronze. Either there is an error in the map, or we are missing something. Have you tried to play the map through? The start is a bit harsh, but after that everything seems to fall into place.
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Yes, it should mean that, but apparently it doesn't, since no goals came up for you. The readme does say the game is not always winnable, so combined with the lack of goals for you that implies a fault in the event logic.

I haven't tried to play the map, and if there is likely to be a fault in the event logic I would be checking that before attempting to play it. It's pointless playing bugged maps without checking for obvious errors first.

I'll take a look over the weekend.
Gareth_Bryne
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

I took a look through the scenario builder, the trigger event seems fine. Is there a way to check the trigger components within a saved game?
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Yes. You can shift into the editor from a game (Shift+E, with game paused) and then check under "Event Debugging". That will show how many times each event has triggered, although on maps with a lot of events they run off the page so not all of them are visible. On this map it only shows the list as far down as "CJ War Warning", so it's no good for figuring out what is wrong with the medals.

The basic medal events (G-Gold Win, etc) are a no-brainer, but this thing is going to be difficult to debug due to the complexity of the events that the medal events rely on. My suspicion is that it has been checked for some combinations of random events, but not checked for all possibilities, so that there are some combinations which screw things up.

So figuring it out would require going through the entire events list, noting all events which can affect game goals, working out how many possible permutations/combinations there are of those events (break out the factorials from high school maths) and then checking all of the permutations/combinations to see if anything is obviously wrong with one or more of them.

One thing I did note is that the basic Gold event has no year declared, which is odd. I assume the scenario end year must be declared somewhere, but I haven't got that far yet.
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Re: Trans Siberian Railway Unread post

Just starting to go through things from the top (may not get far this morning).

"x-Game Factors" and "x-Game Factors 2" look like they could have been combined into one event.
Not sure why it's using two events here, but it doesn't really matter.

"x-Random seed" does absolutely nothing, and appears to be a deprecated leftover from beta testing (yay extra crud!).

"x-Start Track" sets CV4 to 300 for Company ID=1 (this probably has some effect on game goals).

"x-Take Port" simply sets a port building to the Swiss Bank company.
"x-Russia Nyet" denies access to Russia for Company ID=1.
"x-Manchu Da" sets allow access to Manchuria for Company ID=3, and gives it all track and buildings in Manchuria.
"x-China Da" sets allow access to China for Company ID=3.
"x-Korea Nyet" denies access to Korea for Company ID=1, 2 or 3.

"x-Year Clock Set" sets TV4 to a value of 5 for Russia (and at the moment I have no idea what that is going to do).

These seem to be all of the events run at the start of the scenario.
"x-Year Time Set" sets TV4 for Russia to 16 at the end of May, 1891 (no idea why, but it's probably evil).
"x-Year Click" subtracts 1 from TV4 for Russia at the end of every year, but only if TV1 < 10 (this is sure to be evil).
Oh joy! Here are another group of events run at the start of the scenario.

x-Random1 GV1 sets GV1 to 1 if Random 1 to 100 > 80.
x-Random2 GV1 sets GV1 to 2 if Random 1 to 100 < 25 AND GV1 = 0.
x-Random3 GV1 sets GV1 to 3 if Random 1 to 100 > 66 AND GV1 = 0.
x-Random4 GV1 sets GV1 to 4 if Random 1 to 100 < 50 AND GV1 = 0.

x-Random1 GV2 sets GV2 to 1 if Random 1 to 100 < 20.
x-Random2 GV2 sets GV2 to 2 if Random 1 to 100 > 75 AND GV2 = 0.
x-Random3 GV2 sets GV2 to 3 if Random 1 to 100 < 33 AND GV2 = 0.
x-Random4 GV2 sets GV2 to 4 if Random 1 to 100 > 50 AND GV2 = 0.

I think this really is the last of them, but I'm not putting money on it.
All of these are bound to affect medal events, and just these events by themselves allow for eight different outcomes.
I think it is going to take a lot longer than the weekend to analyse all of this. I have other things I need to do over the weekend too. If you are keen to see how this thing is supposed to work and why it isn't working for you, perhaps you could do a similar list for at least some of the remaining events to speed things up.
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