Hawk & Badger Railroad Forum

First off thanks to Orange46 for the scenario which was great fun.

When I first read the requirements for this I thought it was going to be fairly easy as, after all, it's just a matter of shipping some fruit to New York, isn't it?
Well, yes it is, but there's more to it than that. There's also the aluminium (which I could never spell!)
First off, you have the entire USA to play with, and the only fruit (well produce) is on the west coast and the aluminium, well we don't know where that is, as bauxite, and the Aluminium mill/s have yet to appear.
The main problem on this map is going to be money as you can't buy any industry, and you can't build them, so literally you have to find and connect anything, and everything you want. Then, when you have done that, Orange46, has put a sting in the tail that I won't spoil but will drive you

Anyway, I started of in Nashville for the simple reason that it had a decent industry that I could supply. From there it was 'just' a matter of expanding outwards, in all directions, to build up enough revenue to do anything. Very quickly it became obvious that Hotels would be the cash cow of this scenario and so it was especially as they are one of the few buildings you can actually build.

I made the connection to New York in good time, and then set out going for the produce, which was a bit tricky as the 'sting' had set in by then, so building through the mountings was rather hit and miss as I couldn't spend all my cash at once (you'll find out why!) but I got there, and on the way picked up a couple of bauxite mines which would be handy once the aluminium (told you I couldn't spell it) mills turned up.

I grabbed me a gold in 1955 several years before the deadline so that was good.

One of the things I really liked about this was that, as each medal condition was met, you were given the chance to claim that medal, or to continue which I think I'll be 'borrowing' for a future scenario of my own.

Hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did.

Every time I tested this scenario, I started in NY, but kept thinking that I should try the midwest as there's so many large cities with express there. Thanks for testing that option for me (Nashville is close enough - it's only 5 hours from Chicago) and a big thank you for writing a review. If only one person enjoys a scenario, I feel that it was worth the effort to clean up what otherwise would have been something quick and dirty for my own enjoyment.

Orange46 wrote:Every time I tested this scenario, I started in NY, but kept thinking that I should try the midwest as there's so many large cities with express there. Thanks for testing that option for me (Nashville is close enough - it's only 5 hours from Chicago) and a big thank you for writing a review. If only one person enjoys a scenario, I feel that it was worth the effort to clean up what otherwise would have been something quick and dirty for my own enjoyment.

It's my standard practice in A-to-B scenarios to, before I start, work out the route I will eventually use, and then look, along that route, for the best (ie most profitable) place to start, as that gives you the option to grew (usefully) in two directions rather than one, if you start at either A or B.
Admittedly Nashville, was slightly off that route, but, was the only place with an industry I could feed but proved to be a really good hub by the end.

I've given this an initial try and realised I'd played it before - or at least one where taxes suddenly came in and meant you never had enough money - especially as no borowing etc. Can't recall its name but this one plays very similiarly. Got bronze very quickly and silver too - I'd three trains taking bauxite to the nearest aluminium factory and finally got my train load off (fruit completed long before). Took years but who cared gold was only matter of time. BUT as it finally arrived a reccession came in - lasted some 5 years by which time I was some $8m in the red and had had 4 train crashes which I couldn't replace so when I stopped I was $13m in the red - and was now well below Silver value. All this seems very familiar. It's also very boring as all you can do is sit and watch your trains run (slowly) and wait for the next crash.

Will try again sometime and try to avoid the main mistakes I made which were that the huge gradients in the west meant that none of the trains could haul profitably so must take longer and build tunnels. Also as soon as fruit / aluminium arrive change the trains to run in the NY area where they'll be more profitable. Anyway there's lots of other new scenarios I have to try but will return sometime.

For myself, as Edbangor, I initiate my play at a location at which I can expand both directions. Maybe that is the reason I don't make a great Tycoon, as I don't usually get involved with industry, "unless" it is part of the medal goals. Same with the stocks.

But Orange46, I started from CHI, which would be the fringe of the Midwest. I did fairly well and expanded rapidly both directions before the tax requirements took place. After that it was that of expanding on a 1 - 2 - 3 system, with a safety buffer of revenue. 1-track. 2-depot and 3-engine. Biggest problem was naturally getting over the Rocky and Sierra MTs. Started with passage to SLC, but changed, as a route thru Boise was closer to required commodities.

Didn't pay attention to the requirement ""briefing"" with the Aluminum, in partial hauls, until I hauled the Produce of 7 in 1 haul. Got me to thinking, as I had not received any acknowledgement on the 12 already hauled to NYC. But I had a lot of time left, and finished getting the GOLD by 1956.

I did run into a "snag". Now I didn't pay too much attention in this scenario, as I have had problem in some scenarios, not to change the routing, as then you can either lose partial or all of you revenue in the haul. SO, I watch this, and will only change a routing when a train is ""unloading"".

Now the "snag" I found, but maybe not """all"""of the time, BUT sometimes, even in other scenarios played, an engine will not stop for water/sand and maybe maintainence when necessary, and even to the point of "MT" gauge indicators. SO, when I detect this problem, I include a "stop" for these amenities. OH, they stop alright, BUT if those gauges show the necessity to get refilled prior to my intended stop, the engine goes right thru the prior amenities, and will only stop at the amenites selected.

Hope that makes sense to you. And as I just like to play, I rarely find a scenario boring but not saying that I don't, as then I push the "very fast" indicator to get to a level of which is either a requirement, or medal requirement.

Now I was only playing in the Medium level, so there is always a difference in the upper levels to the method to play. But I did not get many "crashes" for the 4 dozen trains in operation. Maybe 2-3, although I did have a couple with the F3s in less than 14 years.

Being that I don't usually play with the "stock market", and don't usually get too much involved with the "industries to purchase", all I had to do with the scenario is ""play"". Although there was its challenges, and I liked it very much. A lot of time goes into the creation of these scenarios, and I not only congratuale Orange46 for this one, but all the creators in their endeavors to show us some of their imagination.

Ray of Sunshine

If Service Towers or Maintenance Facilities are placed too close to rail junctions, they aren't recognized by locos in need of service. It's usually in only one direction though, so when the loco passes in the other direction it will get serviced. To prevent this, don't build track branches close to facilities (I think the minimum distance is 4 track pieces, but I keep it more just to be safe), and don't build facilities too close to track junctions. As for locos only stopping when a stop is specified on the route, that's a bug in the game, which is why I always build enough facilities to service all my trains. Sometimes I forget, and if I notice a loco that has run out of water/sand/oil, I'll build the needed facilities somewhere on the route. The only time I use scheduled stops is when average speed is a goal, and in that case I use facilities on spurs next to the stations where empty trains go to get serviced.

Ray of Sunshine wrote:I did run into a "snag". Now I didn't pay too much attention in this scenario, as I have had problem in some scenarios, not to change the routing, as then you can either lose partial or all of you revenue in the haul. SO, I watch this, and will only change a routing when a train is ""unloading"".

Now the "snag" I found, but maybe not """all"""of the time, BUT sometimes, even in other scenarios played, an engine will not stop for water/sand and maybe maintainence when necessary, and even to the point of "MT" gauge indicators. SO, when I detect this problem, I include a "stop" for these amenities. OH, they stop alright, BUT if those gauges show the necessity to get refilled prior to my intended stop, the engine goes right thru the prior amenities, and will only stop at the amenites selected.


Ray of Sunshine

I don't know if the above problems have changed in 1.06, but cargo values always go to zero if you add or delete any destination while loading. Otherwise, they only change if you change the train's next destination, and it seems to always be to an amount that is less than what it would have been had you originally selected that destination. If I have to change a destination, I sometimes reload at the next station if already under way, otherwise I dump the cargo and reload. The latter does not work for express.

I noticed the bypassing service problem sometime earlier this year. I have also run into another problem with trains getting lost. fortunately, that only happens if I double track over a running train while not on pause.

Wolverine, I'm currently playing a scenario where in my first try, not one train crashed despite horrendous breakdown chances - that is, not until a steam engine event happened. Then my two oldest diesels promptly crashed (a month apart) and I went bankrupt and couldn't recover. I thought that the event triggered the crashes. But, it didn't. I was just lucky for a long time. I know this because in my second attempt, I have reached the same point, but I had already lost at least two engines to crashes and have survived as I learned the hard way some things not to do. My scenarios are not meant for all, but I do try to end them before the point where it gets boring. But, like Ray of Sunshine, I do like to run the trains, perhaps longer than most.

Orange46

Your indication of "losing" a train reminded me of some similar 'glitch". Now I don't know if I have run into this with RRT3, but with RRT2, that if an engine is either setting at a depot "waiting or being loaded", and I construct a double track thru that point, that the engine just sits there. At least until I change the consists.

Now with RRT3, I don't believe that I have "lost " any in the way you mentioned, but I have found that any double track laid, will initiate any trains involved, to stop.

Okay. As typing the above, the memory came back, that it was in the RRT2, in which the engine came into contact with the ""end"" of the double track being laid, that it would "reverse" itself, and head back to the last depot designated, and thereby lose the revenue. It could be corrected, but then as is mentioned in your post, that the revenue to the intended destination, would be decreased.

As for engine longevity. I try to use a gradual scale. Earliest engines = 5 years. and gradually us a 5 year increment for each new level as the engines become available. There are times I have to consider the old over the new, considering the terrain. Their climbing rate over the speed. Compensation can be used in either case, by using double tracks, especially on a steeper than level grade. Just like to play and leave the technology to you creators.

Ray of Sunshine

I just started this one last night, predictably beginning on the east coast.

I've built up a healthy passenger and mail business, but it's the 4th year and it's not healthy enough to traverse those west coast mountains.

A general RT3 questions. Does the ecomomy "seed" differently each time you start a game? At the start of the game, I looked all over the map for 2 to 3 star cities to place my first tracks, but couldn't find even one. So, if I quite this game and started over, is there a chance of getting larger cities?

I could "win" the game given a lot of time, but what's the best way to jump start a game so large revenues are rolling in fast and early?

Despite my lack of tycooning skills, I am enjoying the scenario!

BC

The economy generally seeds about the same each time a new game is started, although variations occur in the cities and regions. This scenario is meant to take a long time, so restarting only makes sense if you are going bankrupt.

Beancounter wrote: A general RT3 questions. Does the ecomomy "seed" differently each time you start a game? At the start of the game, I looked all over the map for 2 to 3 star cities to place my first tracks, but couldn't find even one. So, if I quite this game and started over, is there a chance of getting larger cities?
BC

The size of the cities at the start of the scenario is set in the editor, at least as far as population (houses) goes. The only thing that would change if you reset the game would be any industries depending on how they are weighted in the editor for those cities/regions and then only if the edior has a lot of different ones in that to pick from for that city.

Richard - I noticed in your sig. that you're now running 1.06 in Vista. Congratulations, but the thanks shouldn't go to me. It should go to Ned and DevHyfes.

Edbangor and Orange46 -

Thanks for your replies!

I have scenario specific question.

For some reason, I am not ale to purchase businesses. I've clicked on a number of places and none of them have an offering price.

Was this intended, or am I missing something?

Thanks,

BC

Hawk: yes, but without your site and diligence, I would not have known about the fix.

Beancounter: If you can't do it, it's not allowed.

Orange46 wrote:
Beancounter: If you can't do it, it's not allowed.

Yea, thanks, I figured as much, but I wanted to be sure because I don't recall seeing a readme with a list of restrictions, or in the scenario summary.

BC

Not all scenarios tell you what has been changed. I generally let players figure it out for themselves, since my scenarios are usually meant to be difficult while providing something unexpected. At the same time, the scenarios are also meant to be not so hard that you can't get gold by straight foward game play, although that doesn't mean that sometimes the initial random start won't produce an unusually difficult or impossible map. As another designer noted, I usually set my victory condition for gold to be at a level just beyond what I achieved on the penultimate playtest. For this scenario, I actually made it easier by adding 5 years to the time limit. I really want the player to run those lovely unit pacific fruit express trains.

I just finished the scenario, or rather it just finished me....

I achieved silver on medium difficulty but kept on playing. Getting 7 loads of fruit wasn't too hard, but as others have mentioned, I never seemed to be able to generate enough cash to go over the mountains to the bauxite factories.

So, I decided to build up my existing lines and used a lot of funds, then the recession hit and I started loosing cash, and have been in the red for about three years.

It's already the 1960's or 1970's so I don't think I'll make gold. I'm going to start over at this point

hey

what is the minimum year any of you folks got gold on an expert level?

-ishay

On the first try I got to Gold in expert on 1941, when I started from NY and always built connected track.

I am pretty sure you can gold earlier ..

In this scenario, I built to the north of Salt Lake City and tunnelled one line north for the aluminum and sent another line over hills over dales and the dusty trails to Sacramento. (I was in the field artillery - sorry for that.)