Express D'Orient

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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Orange46
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Express D'Orient Unread post

So far,this looks like a great scenario for micromanagers. I'm still in my 2nd try (1st only lasted 5 years), but I found a serious error. I wondered why I did not see a message or something about the express speed being increased, so after several years I broke down and checked the program and saw that the condition says start year, as opposed to game year. We'll continue on, but those low speed penalties are adding up. Earlier, when i failed to water up one of my engines, I lost two years of speed at the 20 mph rate,plus other years including 2 more at the start of 25 mph so at this point I am probably way behind what is needed for gold money wise - but, hey, I just got 15 years of speed despite the above.

On try 1 I gave up due to having on line services and noticing that I was making less money than if I had just bought 2 dairy farms at the start. For try 3, when I finally fail on this try, I have to decide how long to stay with building industries. On this try, I did not look too hard to see if there was something better than 2 dairies, and I bought no further industries, other than a hotel and restaurant. I built track as soon as I got enough cash and credit to build from Viennato 2 cities. Then, all services were built off line, and despite that, I start getting into speed trouble when espress consists go over 4. I think that next time more acceleration will be purchased, as I have no long express runs. If I created direct service, however, then I would either have to discontinue express to in between stops or have the locals getting sidetracked by the direct runs. Hmm, then I would still want acceleration.
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EPH
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I originally intended to set up the locomotive customizations so that you could turn them on and off at will, but I decided the 5-year plan was better for the custom player.

I have found Consolidations work wll with express loads in the beginning. Once the S-3 comes along, shift your expresses to it and load no more than five cars or so. I don't think you'll need to micromanage your engines - at least, I haven't, and doing away with the micro-managing of the original was certainly a design goal.

All of the penalities for not running express, for building industry for too long, or for not meeting the express speed, last only one year, so they do not accumulate. You may make less money from passengers for a year, but if you fix the problem (lighter trains, better locos fro express, double-track where needed) then the effect lasts only one year.

I usually pick the big tenders since that reduced stops for oil and water, but I wanted the player to have some viable choices for different playing styles. As you point out, you can usually get the express requirement 15 years out of the 30 or more that the game runs.

Sorry for the error in the event - I will check that out and get a fixed version to Hawk ASAP.
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Hawk
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

The fixed version is now available, in the usual place. ;-)
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I did not go for the tenders as my services were already built by the time the option came along. But, if I were to wait longer before starting to build track, and focus on industry, then the tenders could make sense. But, since my services are off line, and no cargoes accompany the engines to the service track, I'm probably better off with acceleration. Now, back to the game, which I haven't been on since I started this thread. Oh, any other changes in the revised version?

As for the micro comment, I still only have 6 engines running, although I did get up to 7. There was a long recesion and i had no cash to do anything, but now I have some credit, so its time to shorten one of my runs and add 2 more engines.

Service tracks are a pain to set up, but once set up, it makes for very busy and interesting stations, as you watch the trains come in, then go empty to the service track, then ... :-D
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EPH
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I have found that both Austria-Hungary and Romania are good places to start. Both offer good choices for industry; you can usually build profitable lumber and paper mills, a distillery, a brewery and a steel mill in each territory without much effort. In Austria my first rail line is usually a Vienna-Bratislava-Gyor-Budapest run, followed by a line to Zagreb. This should put you in the black and set up for the Szeged-Timisoara run. A line along the Donau (Danube) will provide a straight, flat, fast run to Craiova and Bucharest. Oddly, getting mail to go to Bucharest is pretty hard - I usually have to connect to Istanbul to find mail that wants to go to Bucharest.

For Romania, the method is the same - build profitable industries and connect them (don't overlook Galati and Constanta). Then your major choice is west to Austria or south to the Ottomans. Romania will support an amazing amount of industry - steel mills, auto plants, and of course the vital weapons and ammo plants. If you select Romania, your access fees are also sharply reduced - a nice benefit.

I don't worry about express speed so much. I know I'll pick up some points early on using Consolidations over long routes (Vienna-Zagreb, Vienna-Budapest) and more when I get the S-3 (I use 5 or fewer cars plus a dining car). Once the Class 500 comes along in 1905 you should take a point every year, and that's 9 or 10 of the 15 required.

Most of my trouble right now is getting the mail to Bucharest. If you think the mail production or pricing needs tweaking, let me know. Any comments or help will be gratefully received.

I haven't tried starting in the Ottoman Empire. Raising the access costs 'feels' right but could penalize the player too heavily. Perhaps starting in the OE should bring some benefit?
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Orange46
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I gave blood and then realized that my cause was hopeless, so I restarted with 3 dairies (2 initial and 1 expensive one later) and trying to make the trains work better. The 3 dairies should keep some cash rolling. Last try, what killed me, was that I had too many bonds when I gave blood, so I could not do enough and the monthly charges were unsupportable. Not giving blood would have been just a slower death, as I was not making enough money to be able to buy into Istanbul. We'll see what this try does. I like managing a small number of trains, so I will put up with service tracks. I just built a steel bridge to Budapest, as my train was in Gyor and a stone one was out of reach. Last time, I only built stone (and me, who builds wooden bridges in almost any circumstance; which is why I wish there was a weight or some other penalty for using wooden bridges.)
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RayofSunshine
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Well I tried to just play the ""cheepy"" and only try for the VEN-IST and attain the mail requirements for Bucharest and Budapest. The problem? Even with an issued bond, I was only able to cnn VEN-BUD, and buy a Duke. I tried with a consist of 5 and cut it down each year, but after 3 years, I just replaced it with a S3, but that took 3 more years to obtain the 20 mph spped requirement. All was going great guns by just running consists of 5, but the cost of the tracks were eating my revenue. Hence in order to keep laying track and any additional engines, I got buried in 5 bond issues at 11-13%, which didn't help the revenue. Did manage to get to Seged, but was not able to get a 5-6^ interest rate in the BOOM, to help reduce those high interest rates. Then like Orange46, I hit the wall with that 25 mph requirement, and then had to decrease my consits. With all the negative problems, I was not able to make any further headway of acquiring any adequate amount of revenue to do anything. Unless I wanted to just issue more bonds at 8%. *!*!*!

Guess the next attempt will be that of purchasing some industry to help with some extra revenue, before starting to lay track, but watching for the 25 mph requirement. I don't know if it would be called "side track" but usually I will extend a track beyond an "end of the line" depot, and build the S/W/M amenities there. Once the consists are unloaded at the depot having a blank consist, the engine goes to the S'/W/M, depening on which item is needed. Usually on most runs, I will "side track" the engine the 1st time just for the S/W, and on the 2nd time for all three indicating the route to the M, and it will automatically stop at the S/W station.

At other stations, I will only side track the engine to a S/W item inconjunction with the end of the line depot. Othere stations which are along a route of track, I will set up side tracks in similar fashion, with only having the S/W/M at usually every other station. Sort of a haphazard system, and there are situation where I will just place the S/W/M or just a S/W out on the main line at a convient location to handle long haul.
The system isn't fool proof, as it also depends on factors of industry spurs etc.. Just like to have a lot of fun. :salute:

But this scenario, although interesting, I find that the cost of track seems more costly than usual.
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

An error. The 1st affordable engine was the Duke. And after 3 years was not any progress made in the 20 mpy requirement, so I switched it to a Stirling, and not an S3.

But I forgot to ask. What is this statement about Kaiser being able to give some help with my agreement to help attain a Rwy from BER to BAG? Neither of those cities are on the map. And I don't see any place on which I could click to trigger that assistance. **!!!**
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Orange46
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Have patience, Ray. I am on my 4th attempt, although I think that this one will be a winner. My thirrd attempt died when I prematurally bought the steel mill, only to find that it was a fluke that coal had started to arrive at it, and since it was losing money, and I was not in a good position to build to it right away, I gave up. But, I did save just before buying the mill, so try number 4 was from that point - which was not too far in.

Although I was trying not to follow EPH's advice, I could not help but be influenced by it in the 3rd and 4th tries. Originally, tries 1& 2, I did not connect to Bratislava, as I was building stone bridges (for speed), and the cost to go up there was too great. In all tries, I could only fully cover the city from the north side of the river. But, in try 4, after first bypassing the city (my try 3 save), I went back and sent a track up and built the large city just south of the river, missing 2 houses on the north bank. Then, I built up to Salgotarjan and a lumber mill up there and it became quite profitable. Later, I built a paper mill there and bought the Still in Vienna after I secured a supply of fruit with a line to the south of Budapest. Sometime while doing this I also sent a line south from Vienna to Zagreb and finally bought the steel mill when I got access to the coal in Zagreb.

This scenario is quite hard until you get a supply of money. Everything costs a lot, so that for me, at least, trains just don't make enough to let you meet the timetables. As I noted earlier, in try 1, I realized that if I had bought just one dairy at start, I would have been making more money than all of my rail operations were making after 5 years of operation. So, I bought 2 dairies and a 3rd as soon as I had the cash, then built to Budapest, then went on to build industries that I could service. It's currently 1897, I made $3 milion last year in boom times, and I have a line to Bucharest and shipped one mail there last year. My finances were good enough to allow me to build like crazy during a deprecession (Novi Sad is connected east and west). So, now the only problem is can I get the mail thru, and get a weaapons factory up and running and ship the coffee quickly once I get into Istanbul.

This map feels so different from what I remember the original being. I like it, despite the speed bumps.

Edit: 1901 Mail completed to Bucharest. Now, to get the weapons flowing. The steel plant does not like to retain coal. It is high up on a mountain and the electic plant below steals a lot of the coal. I hope I don't have to bulldoze the plant. Now to either accumulate $5 million or wait until the Kaiser offers help. There's not a drop of Java on this map. I sure hope that something happens when I buy into the Ottoman Empire.
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Orange46
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Transport Tycoon had a feature that sent engines searching for service places when services were needed. That would be nice for scenarios like this one, although it would be better if it was triggered only when an engine was in a station with no cargo.

Gold was achieved in 1911. Overall,I rate this scenario as ::!**! , assuming that 2 minor fixes are made that I have notified EPH of.
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RayofSunshine
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Well Orange46,

As I have mentioned in previous PM and other threads, although a patience person, even we elderly get frustrated. That aside, am just having problems trying to get this scenario to respond. Aside from the "not getting anywhere" of a previous thread, I now am not able to just get a ""normally"" operating scenario. Even tried to overrite the previous download to see if that would correct the problem, which is:

no penalties, and the page 1 of the ledger shows speeds of 24-29, and yet no indication is shown on the stats page, after a few years it is still at 0/15. **!!!**

on another attempt, the last ledger pages shows a speed of 29 still with a 0/15. *!*!*!

and no break on the consists. ran mostly empty of a couple years in "normal", then a couple of commodities, with maybe 1with a 5 car haul in the "prosperity". Hence I tried to stable my revenue with a "bond", only to see that disappear. ^**lylgh

After 3 years, operating with a Stirling tops 66 mph, I have only accomplished a cnn from VEN to Bratislava. !hairpull!

My consolation is that you have been able to accomplish getting a Gold. And although I am not claiming to be of Tycoon that you managed to have the talent, I am glad that there isn't somethng wrong with the scenario programming. I may be a little frustrated at times, but really hate to see a user having "bugs or problems" after they have put so much time, talent, and imagination into their creation. ::!**!

At least that is a plus to me at this time, so I will just try another attempt, :salute:
as this is really a great scenatio. I like its concept. Puts it right uup there with the creations you and others have submitted in the past. !*th_up*! !!clap!!
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EPH
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Once the 20mph speed requirement kicks in you will notice a monthly game message in the left-hand area of the map. It will give you a running average of your express speed. If you manage to keep it above 20mph for the year (later 25) then you get 1 point toward the 15 you need. Since the game is 33 years long, you only have to make that speed about every other year - The Class 500 accelerates well and has good top speed, so you can count on high express speeds from 1905 on, so that's or 10 of the required 15 right there. :-)

I recommend operating freight-only trains and express-only trains. Early on the very high speed (50+ mph) of the Consolidation is a sure-fire express mover over long distance such as Zagreb-Vienna or Vienna-Budapest. The Consolidation will not have good performance over short hops like Vienna-Bratislava because it accelerates like a turtle. With the S-3 you must reduce its express load to 4 or 5 cars but can still get good speeds due to its good accelleration.

One 'problem' with the original map is a lack of freight cargo worth moving. There are lots of raw materials, though - so it is time for lumber, paper and steel mills, distilleries and breweries. :-D I'm responsible for making track very expensive in the early years (it does get much cheaper as time goes on). My advice is to invest early on in industry, plan on building a good regional carrier (Zagreb-Vienna-Budapest or Constanta and Galati to Bucharest), then expand like crazy in the last half of the game. Most of my wins are from 1911-1912, so nerve and persistence pay off. Eventually. ;-) Lord, give me patiience and make it RIGHT NOW! ^**lylgh

I believe the key to this one is money, money, money. You must have profitable routes, and I think that means building industry to make freight you can carry.

I did not use a lifetime average express speed like the original game, because it is so hard to increase it after just a few years. Instead you get some gentle nudges to encourage you to keep your express speed up.

The Kaiser will make you an offer sometime after 1900; I don't remember exactly when. His help is expensive ($200,000 per month or $2.4 million per year - not chump change) but can turbocharge your expansion.

I am delighted to find orange46 has foun a different path to victory. I was hoping this one would have high replay value. There will likely be at least one more version, due in large part to his help and suggestions. !$th_u$!
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RayofSunshine
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I used the Stirling right from the start EPH, with good satisfaction. Afte the problems I had, I didn't bother with any industries this last attempt, just to see if I was having a problem with my computer system. Negative. It was just a bad economy all teh way around in the previous attempts. Usually I will save a "new load" as a basis to return to it to start other attemps. That was the mistake. Bad economy and only managed to get track laid to Siege a couple of times. It might have been some thing to do with a previous version.

Anyway, after I downloaded the scenario again, the operation had better results with the cargoes. Still using the Stirling, but managed to get to Bucharest. Switched to S3s when it became available, and with mostly short hauls and "stide track maintenence", all was going well. That is, up until Kaiser came into the picture.

Kaiser was a great help to get Bulgaria, and managed to get a few loads of oil back to Vienna with Class 500, and setting up periodically stops at maintence side tracks. Still managing speeds in the 30s.

However, it was not until I wanted to extend the track beyond Bargas to IST, that I found the access of $5M, of which by this time, due to the monthly payments of $200K that the bond rates were now at 10+%, and already had a few million already loaned. The worst part? My cash on hand was -$3+K. It was already the end of 1911, and not being an Orange46 Tycoon, I just let the scenario run to the end of a couple years, and QUIT.

I did manage to get some what out of the "deep" financial hole, as I switched most of the engines to the Class 500, and went from the 4 consist to 5, Should maybe have done both of these switches previous for better revenue.

At least I know that there is a better economy, and some of the programming of which a player will have to take into consideration. The cargoes were also different this time, as it wasn't necessary to set up a route to Zageb. But I didn't too well with the weapons either.

But that couldn't be any worse than the coffeee supply. All the residence in the Black Sea and IST area drink coffee. Hence the supply was very spare.

How ever a person looks at the scenario, it is a great one. The challenge is there, and it just takes some Tycooning to figure out the best methods to accomplish the goals.

!*th_up*! !$th_u$!
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Orange46
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I never tried a Stirling. Their hill ability scares me, but their passenger appeal is, well, appealing. Unlike EPH, I use Dukes, as they have better acceleration than the Consolidations, with only a small loss of power. But, for a long run or climbing the hills out of Turkey (OE start), then I would go the Consolidations.

I think that the Kaiser only helps if you have enough cash or credit to be able to buy all the remaining territories that you need and be able to build all track to connect AH to OE and to a weapon source. Otherwise, unlesss you are clearing more than $2.4 million a year, you willl be hurting.
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brunom
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Played to 1914. Should have got Silver in the very last year, but didn't!
I checked the scenario events after that only to find out that Vienna and Istambul must be connected by my own stations and that i can't use AI stations for it. So, despite being beautifully designed all the way through, it was so disappointing in the end. With 5 AI companies that we can't take over building havoc the whole time (and they can borrow so freely!), it is pretty hard to "guess" that their track and stations is not to be used.

Anyway, here goes my story:

Before this "sucessful" attempt, i did try a few times to start from Istanbul, without success *!*!*! .

Started in Romania for a nice Industry start. It had plenty of Logs and no Lumber Mill, so i started buying 3 pretty close logging camps and made a Mill next to them. This was close to a river in Bacau. Within a year and a couple of bonds i had a profitable line running Galati to Iasi, in north Romania. Was shipping my lumber around as well as grain and alcohol.
Made a choice at this point: Running one Duke with Min-1, Max-5, Cargo and one Stirling on Express, Max-3. Stopping in all stations. Maintenance on main line but close to one station (so not to waste acceleration) - i kept this system the whole game through and, most of the time, the express speed was just enough. The "15 condition" turned out easy to meet.

Profit was average but stable. 10 Years after kick off, the company had 2 steel mills and most of Romania connected. It also had a big debt curbing my yearly gains.

1900. Bought rights into Serbia and connected Bucharest to Belgrade passing through Craiova and a 3M tunnel. Had furniture, toys, goods and textile factories factories in Romania and money seemed easy. Time to repay bonds again, upgrade wood bridges to iron/stone, create industry that was lacking, etc. Early after this, i was introduced to the Kaiser... decided to wait for his offer and take it...

1905. Waited for Kaiser phone call to get into Bulgaria on the cheap, but it didn't work so well. Crossing Bulgaria's mountains and paying the 200k monthly kept me on my toes financially. Only good thing was being able to replace old stirlings by german top-of-the-class express trains. Economy went into recession on top of it, so for a period i was well in the red, with 10M in debt (4% interest though!).

1910. Finally clear of recession and about half of the debt repaid! Again the company was pretty profitable but I had only 4 years to buy rights into Austria and connect to Budapest and Vienna. I was sure i wouldn't get gold, as even custom trains with top priority couldn't put 10 hauls of coffee in Vienna in 4 years, but silver was still possible.
(after-game side note: AI had connected Burgas to Istambul since early in the game, so I thought I had the south covered... dead wrong I was!)

1913. As debt and economy cleared up, it was quite easy to pay 2M to access Austria where AI had built a mess of lines. Profits were pouring at this point so i built new lines and used some of existing. 10 Mail to Budapest was achieved in 2 years more or less (I only set up express trains around Budapest, all on 12321 routes to 2 cities of distance from Budapest). Money was so free-flowing now, I still had time to buy into Istanbul and create custom cargo trains carrying weapons from Bucharest and coffee from Istanbul. Just for the fun, as there was no time to meet gold requirements by then... In the meanwhile, I kept on worrying that the ledger still said Vienna and Istabul were unconnected...

Overall, i rate it 4.9 stars. It would really be a perfect 5 if it was clear from the start that one can't use AI track or stations.
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Orange46
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Brunom: Actually, you can use AI track, but you just need to send a short spur line off of it to build your own station.

I found starting in Turkey to be quite difficult and never got a medal, although I did enjoy the challenges that I faced there. EPH was working on a fix for the Turkey start, but it has not been published yet.
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brunom
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

:) Problem isn't being allowed to use AI track and stations or not - is not realizing it until the very last year. I still think this is the coolest scenario i played for a long time.

I've been with some time in my hands and am still trying a medal from a Bulgaria or Ottoman start..
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brunom
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

Well, I have more to say on this.

As I said, I am loving this scenario, even if it is a little too industry-based, and I already played it from a number of different perspectives.
However, the same keeps happening. No matter how I go at it, ledger never gives me credit for connecting Istambul and Vienna, even after newspapers aknowledge it.

Check these printscreens I made just for you guys :D

I get good news:
dorient_news.jpg
But then, I never get credit and I end up "loosing" the game:
dorient_status.jpg
It puzzles me! For the record, I already tried a save where I have paralell tracks and paralell stations all the way (money can flow so abundantly after about 1900!), but the result is the same.
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Hawk
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I checked this scenario in the editor and unless I'm missing something you should still be able to win Gold even though the status page doesn't confirm your connection of Vienna/Istanbul.

The newspaper condition and the Gold win condition are set up the same. It seems the only error is in the status condition. It looks to me that he forgot to set the effect for the connection that the status event is looking for.
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brunom
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Re: Express D'Orient Unread post

I went back to this save and let the timer run to 1914.

It is just the ledger that ain't right, as i got the medal.

On another note, Bulgaria is an impossible win, and so is Ottoman Empire, at least to me :D
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