Scenario for beta testing:Utah Rail History

[Moabdave]

Howdy,
I'm working on a scenario that is similar to Arizona Railroads by Gary Reams. I've long liked this style of scenario and wanted to do a similar one for Utah and Nevada . This is my first ever attempt at scenario creation and would like some feedback. I've more or less developed this scenario in a vacuum, however that was due to circumstance, not intention. Here's some notes:
*Created on a mac (am I the first, has anybody else tried this?????) with 1.04 CTC expansion pack, lots of additional locomotives and station enhancements installed. Hopefully this should be playable on any 1.04 w CTC installed.
*I'm aware some more terrain smoothing is in order, every time I think I'm done, I find another spot.
*I think I've got all the bugs out of the bronze level, still working on silver and gold
*I originally tried to stay true to history with all of the dates. However keeping the dates consistent with reality results in years of boredom, followed by trying to build 20 rail lines in a year =-). So I've "fudged" history a bit to even things out. I think I've got a fairly even pace for the bronze level, but more fudging is probably required for Silver & Gold.
*The one line I haven't gotten around to even testing is the Lucin Cutoff. I intended to borrow some tricks from the Florida East Coast scenario for this, but haven't gotten around to testing this yet to see if I did it right. My goal is to be able to build a wooden trestle across the Great Salt Lake, when otherwise RTIII would force you to build a suspension bridge across a body of water this big. If you haven't played it, the FEC scenario does this masterfully.
Hope you like it. If you do, I'll release and start work on the Nevada version.
David

[Moabdave]

OK, well Murphy's law. Yes, there are problems with the Silver level. Biggest is I never grant access to the Castle Valley Railroad, which is necessary for Silver. Sigh, I'll have a new version where access is granted in the early 1890's. Also I never congratulate the user for finishing the Cedar City spur.

[andy-rails]

Quite interesting, very challenging...and complicated! Till Bronze all is ok but there are sone territories not accessible when rezuested connection...in the second part it is not possible to connect Grand Junction as the territory can be accessible only with 10million dollars...and when you start the Western and you finish it, you see the newspaper but the status says unconnected, just as it shows as connected all the rest (even if not connected)...well maybe it is just because this scenario is quite complicated...but very very interesting!

[Moabdave]

Thanks for the information. It's clear this scenario isn't yet ready for release. I have found a couple of situations where I don't give access to the right territories to complete the mission. However, I did not catch the fact that I didn't give the Denver and Rio Grande Railroad access to Colorado (whoops!). Thanks for finding that. I've also discovered the Lucin Cutoff is impossible to build with the map as drawn, so I need to make some more fixes.
David

[Moabdave]

OK. Here is rev2. I've made quite a few fixes and a few improvements. I've also tested this more thoroughly than rev1. Hope you like it. Hawk, I will be away from the internet for a few days, so I won't be able to check comments for a while. However, I'm fairly certain it's ready this time, so unless somebody complains about something major in the next few days, feel free to post this to the maps page. Thanks everybody for your help. It was a lot of fun creating this, but a lot of work too. David

[RayofSunshine]

That Moabdave,

Is the reason that there are so few "user creators" in comparison to the membership. Many might just be lazy and let the "chore" to some one else, BUT, a good many of us just do not have the talent to know how to do the "editing".

So, we do thank you for your time, talent, and imagination, as we know that it has to be, sort of, of love for the game, that you spend your endeavors to create.

Have not had the time to "play or test" your scenario, as I have 3 other scenarios in the 'playing stage. Can't tax my brain too much, as it takes some memory to try and remember the challenge for each one.

However, I am looking for the future to take the challenge of your creation.

[Hawk]

Many might just be lazy and let the "chore" to some one else, BUT, a good many of us just do not have the talent to know how to do the "editing".

Another option you didn't mention is that maybe some of us are too busy to allow ourselves the pleasure of creating new maps and/or scenarios.

[RayofSunshine]

OOPS, I forgot that some people have to work.

Now this scenario has me puzzled, which is not necessarily the first time.

I get $200 for the UP, and a CP depot at Lucien, but when I click to lay track, it is colored "red" indicating that it belongs to the CP, as when and if I lay track, it is colored black, which I believe would belong to the UP. However, if I use the $200 to lay track fromt hat point, it only covers 1/2 the distance between the Lucien track and the "10 miles laid in a day" indicator.

Now the other rail is on what would be indicated as the CP direction of the project. However, the CP has no revenue, and like the UP, also does not have any access to bonds.

Hence, as indicated, although someone doing some testing was able to get a BZ, I don't have """"""A - N - Y''''''''' revenue to do anything, even if I sell stock to the amount of $60
Sure can use some comments or suggestions.

[Moabdave]

OOPS, I forgot that some people have to work.

Now this scenario has me puzzled, which is not necessarily the first time.

Lucky I haven't shut off my computer for the extended weekend yet =-)
The scenario starts with 2 companies, Union Pacific and Central Pacific, each with 1 depot placed. The Lucin, Utah is the CP depot, the UP's depot is in Rawlins, Wyoming. In 2 player (although I've never played a 2 player game, so I have no Idea if this actually works) the two companies have the same amount of cash and are in a fairly equal position to reach Ogden first. In single player, the CP is essentially bankrupt and is takeover bait; you'll probably want to be chairman of the UP. (Humm, although that would be a challenge, maybe I should play the scenario as the head of the CP to see if it's possible to still win, or make that the expert level. =-)) Either way, the first thing you probably want to do is use your personal cash to buy stock in your company to pump up the price. I'm curious about you saying that you only have 200k in company cash. Although that is how much the scenario starts with, you should get $4000k as soon as the clock starts ticking. With the distances between cities, it would be impossible to build anything without that $4000k. Maybe I didn't get all the bugs out??? Please let me know your setup (i.e. how many players did you select?, you are chairman of CP or UP?, etc.)

Assuming you get the $4000k, In the case of the UP, once you pump up the UP's stock price, you can take over the CP. From that point on, lay track and start connecting cities towards Ogden. There are enough cash payouts for connecting certain cities that it is possible to complete the first transcontinental railroad without bonds or stock sales, if you know which cities to connect first =-). Even if not, you should be able to make it without too much borrowing and stock sales, and be able to repay the bonds once complete. However, once the transcontinental line is finished, the cash payouts stop.

The two most critical things once the first transcontinental railroad is complete is the placement of the depots. As there are 3 narrow territories for right-of-ways to build between Salt Lake and Ogden, and you don't get the best one until near the end of the scenario, it's important to place those two depots soon and build lines to the city limits along at least the Utah Central (the first of the 3 to open up) ASAP. I saw while testing that if a steel mill (or other large industry) gets placed in the Utah Central Railroad right of way, you're blocked from connecting Salt Lake to Ogden until you either blow up an industry building or the Rio Grande right of way opens up.

[RayofSunshine]

Well, Moabdave,
all I can say to that explanation is WOW. Will have to restart the scenario to see how your suggestions can be applied. Thanks much.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Moabdave,

I rebooted the scenario, AND it nothing like my 1st attempt in comcept of moneys. But I didn't believe that there ""were"" any bugs, as Andybis seemed to get at least to the Silver, although he had some comments of the play of the game. So again, I don't believe, at this point, that there isn't anything wrong with your programming etc.

Reboot, gave me Stephen, with $1200 cash, don't remember the stock
The UP is indicated by the Company list with $4200 cash
And depots of each Rwy in Lucien and Rawlings.
Now I double checked, and did not find any track laid some distance from the
10 miles a day indicator notation.
SO with all that difference from the initial download, something went wrong in my system.

Now you can shut down you computer, enjoy the weekend, and I will give your creation a attempt of play.

Again, for the info

[RayofSunshine]

Well Moabdave,

As usual with this old man, I am at a puzzle. Actuallly a further puzzle.

Trying to follow your above instructions, I find that ""both"" rwys both ""don't"" get the same amount of cash. UP starts with $200, but gets a $4000 after starting. The CP? Just crap with $0.

As the next step, I buy all the stock of both the UP and the necessity of that for the CP, in order to "take over" the CP. I "issue stock" twice for some revenue, which was still $0, and had to purchase access of WY to start llaying track, but still no revenue to continue any type of operation without any revenue.

SO, a stalemate. Hence I could go back to the UP and lay track, but that doesn't put any track laid only the route for the CP.

Any suggestions, as someone must have "mastered" some of the scenario, as they had a problem with getting a "silver"?

[Wolverine@MSU]

I got to the point of building the Utah Southern from SLC to Nephi. Completed that, and then got the message to connect to Logan, but I don't have access to necessary territory to do it (north of Ogden). My only way was to go back to Chair UP and take over Utah Southern. Was that what is intended, or should Utah Southern build to Logan?

I see that the player is given a choice to form these new companies, and I assume that one must do so to get Gold, so a gentle reminder in the choice event would be helpful to keep the player pointed in the right direction. I strayed the first time through and had to go back and replay the year (1870) that led up to that choice event. It's set to trigger at the beginning of the year, which means that it comes and goes before the Ledger is displayed and the game stops. If you save at that point, a reload of that saved game doesn't allow you to go back and change your mind in the choice event. It would be nice if the choice event occurred at the end of the first week in January so the player has a chance to "rethink" his/her decision.

Haven't found any major bugs up to this point, although in my first play-through, I didn't get access to the D&RG territory even though I chose "Yes" in the choice event. Plenty of funds available to make the initial Transcontinental, and even bought the Meat Packer in Green River (a wise investment) and later the associated Cattle Ranches when they started to turn a profit.

I'll keep you posted as I continue.

[Moabdave]

Hello,
Unfortunately, I am unable to fix the issues you two brought up at this time. However, thank you both for testing the scenario and I will address these.
RoS: Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post. You do not have to acquire the Central Pacific to play this scenario in single player. My attempt was to make it easy to acquire if you are the type of person who can't stand AI companies (like me). As far as I know the game will work fine leaving the Central Pacific on the game as an AI company. If you do want to acquire the the CP, first thing buy stock in the Union Pacific (your company), then buy the CP. Don't buy stock in the CP, as that will up the value of that company (and the cost for you to acquire it). However, there is a larger point here. I'm debating if it is wise to have the CP have absolutely nothing in the bank. I'm thinking I should give them at least enough cash to build to the next town. I'll play with this when I can

Wolverine: Thanks for that feedback. No, you should have been given access to Utah Northern, regardless of which company you owned at the time. I think what happened is another symptom of what you already mentioned, all the events being triggered at the beginning of the year. In my own testing I did discover an issue that can result from how I'm using Game Variable 1 (I was trying to be cleaver and use the same variable for multiple uses, bad idea). So bottom line, there will be a rev 3 out as soon as I can get back to this. =-)

Thanks again to you both for offering feedback on my first attempt at scenario creation.
David

[RayofSunshine]

Well Moabdave,

Thank you for the update, as I was just wondeering if I was having a problem with my system incorporating the program correctly, especially considering the 1st attempt, and not getting the $4G in the initial portion of playing.

Your scenario concept in imagination is great, not even considering that it is your 1st attempt at creating. And you have a great testor with Wolverine to help find the bugs and make suggestion of improvement.

Although this is your 1st attempt, from what I see in the talent and imagination of this scenario, I am sure that there are a number of members looking forward to your future creations. As usual, you may not get a lot of comments from them, which is borne by the different between the Forum "viewing" in comparison with the "posts", but by the total number of "downloads" of the map itself.

Good luck and your talents are appreciated.

[Wolverine@MSU]

Some additional observations/bugs/suggestions:

1. The player is never given acces to "Utah" territory, so it is impossible to make the connections listed on the "Gold Ledger".

2. The cities listed on the "Gold Ledger" are not those that are required by the connection test events.

3. Completion of some of the minor RRs is shown in the Ledger before the RRs come into existance. For instance, I was able to build stations that covered Farmington and Bountiful from the UP line connecting Ogden to SLC, so the Ledger showed the Bamburger line as completed very early on. Some of the other connections showed up this way too. Perhaps a minimum date for displaying them on the Ledger, that coincides with the inception of the specific RRs, would prevent them from showing up too early. The use of "Company Stations Connect City to City" would ensure that the new RR lines do the connecting.

4. If the intention is to have the player leave UP (or whatever company they own) to start up the other companies (i.e. D&RG) there should be safeguards built in to prevent the return to the previous company. My strategy throughout the game was to start the new companies (with minimum investment), have territory access granted, and then jump back to UP to gobble them up, sometimes even before building the rail lines that the new company is supposed to build. This can be solved by preventing a return to any previously owned company. I forget exactly how it was done, but there is a scenario out there that has the same concept (starting new companies as the RR history evolved) in which the player was prevented from, or severely penalized for, going back to a previous company. It would take a bit of complicated event writing, but would certainly make the scenario more true to history.

5. Passengers become the predominant cargo very early on. This is a "feature" of RT3 that can lead to very unrealistic consequences. I had a Hotel/Restaurant in most cities by the end of the game, and most of them were turning huge profits. Events to lower PAX production throughout the game would help control this if so desired.

6. Overall, the game played very well. The map is well constructed, and I was able to make most lines with 6% grades or less (a few went into the 8-9% grade for a few track pieces), but even over Baxter Pass, I was able to keep the grades down enough to allow Consolidations to haul across it. Having the trusted "Connie" available for as long as I played (into the early 1900's) was a big plus, because the 8 & 10 Wheelers just don't make it in the mountains. Shays are good for short hauls (I only used a couple of them) with full trains, but most of the work was done by the Connies. Even the Duke was OK for some runs when the grades weren't too steep, and I was sad to see them go bye-bye late in the game.

7. The painting could use a little "touching up" to remove the blockiness, especially in the snow-caps. There is a "blur/smudge" tool (lower right in the brush selection panel) that will let you blend the sharp edges in high-contrast areas.

This is a wonderful scenario, and I learned a lot about Utah railroad history. I understand that you can't get to these things right away, but with a litlle polishing of the rough edges, this will emerge as a top-notch scenario. I hope you don't let it languish, and I'ld be glad to do further testing when it becomes needed.

[RayofSunshine]

I definitely am not doing as well as Wolverine. But I have incorporated getting the chairmanship for a number of railroads. From the sounds of his last post, he is able to acquire stock of the railroads of which he becomes Chairperson. That is not my case, and I don't know much about the "manipulation" of stocks, other than to just "buy and or sell", when I have the money.

I did manage to buy all the UP stock, which gave me a good profit. However, when I took over the next RWY Chairmanship, that profit went down the tube, so that the purchase of any stock was not available. And that decline increased for each RWY thereafter. OH, I had bought all the stock of the CP, which didn't help, and when I went back to the UP Chairmanship, that $-4.8G came right along.

From other scenario posts, I know that other players have some system to keep increasing their stock profits, but I have never gotten into that format. Will go to the RT3 Handibook, but until then, any suggestions or comments.

[Moabdave]

Thanks both for the feedback. I am working on revision 3 as we speak. As I've now past the point where working on this scenario is fun, I'm pretty sure version 3 will be the last.
Responding to Wolverine's feedback first:
1. After the player earns silver, the price to buy territory should drop to reasonable levels. The rest of the territories can be purchased easily. I'm almost to this point in testing my latest draft of revision3, so I'll verify it works soon.
2- That is part error, part intentional. For example, with the D&RG Milford Connector (Castle Valley Railroad) The endpoints in the ledger are Woodside and Milford. However those two cities would already be connected, via a much longer route. So I had to use cities near there, that were not already connected. However, your point is duly noted. If somebody builds the line, without touching the cities that I'm checking for...I'll probably address this via the ledger.
3- Funny you mention the check for "Company Stations Connect City to City". I didn't know this check was available until just yesterday For rev3 I have already added this check to many events in the scenario, and is has eliminated a lot of bugs. (I had one instance where I paid the connection money to the wrong company). Thanks for the tip.
4- That was not my intent. I intended for the players to be able to own 100% of multiple companies and to be able to switch back and forth at will. However, I similarly have noticed the scenario is much easier to play if you only have one or two companies in the game, with the choices being Union Pacific and D&RG. So I similarly have the UP or D&RG acquire the start-ups as fast as possible. However, I hint in the instructions that in real life most of the short lines were gobbled up by the UP as soon as they were built. So you were staying mostly true to history =-)
5- I haven't thought about this yet. Thanks for the tip
6-Thanks. In real life the Uintah Railroad was only able to use Shay's (there is this one 66 degree curve with a 7.5% grade along the now abandoned grade, that even many larger automobiles have to do a 3 point turn to navigate). However, I have noticed the same thing, with the terrain smoothing from the importing and compression progress, in this scenario it is possible to build the grade of the Uintah Railroad so that most locomotives can traverse it. I placed that mention in the newspapers to inform the player of what happened in real life.
7- Yeah, Yeah I know =-)
Thanks for the kind words. For the record, I've learned a lot too while working on this scenario. I just found out that I do have some minor facts wrong about Simon Bamberger wrong in rev2 (the major details are correct). These will be fixed in rev3. One fact I only recently became aware of is Ogden once marketed itself with "You can't go anywhere, without coming to Ogden". Once I learned that, I just HAD to modify the headline on the newspaper for when Odgen is connected =-)

Ray of Sunshine: This was NOT my intent, but one thing I have discovered: For this scenario it's important to buy up stock in the companies you want to keep in the game ASAP. (If you just want to have the UP (or perhaps the D&RG) acquire the company don't' worry about buying stock in that company). From what I've seen testing this scenario, you almost have to buy all (or at least the majority) of UP stock before the clock even starts ticking, otherwise you wont' be able to own the company or take it back over when the scenario requires you to start a new company. If you don't own enough stock in the UP to take it over when you want to, you have to worry about being stuck being chairman of a company that is almost guaranteed to fail. I got stuck because of this several times while testing the scenario. This was not what I had intended; however, I kind of like it, and don't think I'll change it. What I may do is throw some of these hints in the intro or ledger.

Thanks again and good luck. I am working on Rev 3. It's a fairly major overhaul, as I've learned a lot from the bugs i rev2 that I thought were fixed. However, I'm confident the next revision will be the final one. I hope so, I want to start on my next scenario, working on this one has now passed from fun to "Oh Crap, that's not what was supposed to happen, dang it, have to start again" =-).
David

[RayofSunshine]

Well Moabdave,

I have not yet pulled out the RT3 Handibook to find out about the problems I am getting with the "stock" problem. I had purchased ""all"" of the uP stock right from the beginning, but not knowledgeable with stocks to determine why the stock profits continue to decline with each different RWY of which I take possession. And the stock must still be affective, as I am able to regain the UP Chairmanship. I just wonder how far in debt or the loss of stock, before I am not able to function.

Sorry to hear about the time consuming effort you are putting into this scenario. I do know from testing other scenarios that the more "complicated" the scenario, the more problems that can occur. Takes a lot of time to correct, or rewrite/reprogram once the mistake or error is found. Good Luck.

Don't give up. This is a very top of the line scenario.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I definitely am not doing as well as Wolverine. But I have incorporated getting the chairmanship for a number of railroads. From the sounds of his last post, he is able to acquire stock of the railroads of which he becomes Chairperson.

When you start a new company, you are given a set of sliders to set the amount you contribute and the amount outside investors contribute. The apportionment of stock is based on the ratio of these two amounts. If you put in $1,000,000 and have the other investors contribute $2,000,000 you will wind up with 1/3 of the total stock. The amount you can contribute is governed by your Purchasing Power. If you've been a good Tycoon, and grown UP, you should have pretty good Purchasing Power and can set the outside investors slider to "0", ensuring that you will own all of the stock. As long as you have at least 50% of the stock from the previous company, you should be able to jump back and forth. Beware of allowing the AI to run a company that you want to go back to. They have their own way of routing trains, and will decide that some of the dedicated runs you have set up to service your industries, or haul away valuable products, may go by the wayside in very short order.

One trick I recently learned to "manipulate" stock prices has to do with the dividend. I usually set it to "0" right from the get-go to keep all cash in the company coffers. However, when the clock rolls around from December to January, the stock price gets adjusted based on the dividend (among other things). If you are paying no dividend, the stock price almost always goes down, if you pay a hefty dividend, the stock price almost always goes up, or at least when the economy is in Recession or Depression, doesn't go down as much as it otherwise would have. I often pause the game right at the end of December and set the dividend based on what I want the stock price to do, and then go back in January and reset it to "0". The neat thing is, as far as I can tell, that even though you have set a high dividend at the end of December, it doesn't seem to get paid out because it's only been in place for a week or so. You just have to remember to reset it to "0" in January of the next year.

Another useful tactic, especially when PNW is not a goal, is to issue stock every year. When the new year rolls around, I close the Ledger, reload the autosave game and save it as JanXX, where XX is the year. This will ensure that you can issue 2 rounds of stock each year. You just have to watch out that you either buy up excess stock (to stay above 50% ownership) or don't issue if it will leave you with less than 50% ownership and you will be wanting to jump out to and back from another company. Things can happen in the Dec-Jan transition that can vary in duration, so you may not be always starting at the exact beginning of the year without reloading the Autosave. Events may occur, Other tycoons (if there are any) may buy and sell stocks, so while you may be able to issue stocks one January, when the next one rolls around, you may not be able to because it's been less than 12 months since the last isuuing of stock.

After the player earns silver, the price to buy territory should drop to reasonable levels. The rest of the territories can be purchased easily. I'm almost to this point in testing my latest draft of revision3, so I'll verify it works soon.

I didn't check on this. Perhaps a Newspaper announcing the drop in access price would point the player in the right direction. Looking forward to Rev3.