New scenario for testing Northern Nevada

[Moabdave]

As I get ready for the Labor Day weekend, I have finished testing a new scenario, Northern Nevada. I hope you like it. I did make some last minute bug fixes that I haven't tested, but knock on wood the fixes didn't break anything. This is a similar idea to the scenario Northern Arizona Fun Run by the RailRat, and my last scenario Utah Rail History. However, this one is much simpler. To win gold all the lines depicted on this map must be complete by 1914. I can barely make it, as the cities of Nevada are so small, and so far between, I haven't found a way to for my company to do any more than break even for the first 10 years or so. By the time I get enough cities connected to start making money, I'm scrambling to play catch up.

Feel free to rake over the coals. I am still getting feedback over my last scenario Utah Rail History; I will get back to those.

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[Sugus]

Tried it today but without any success!

City connection report in short:
Truckee - Verdi - Reno - Sparks - Wadsworth - Fernley - Hazen - Fallon
(1868)
Virginia City - Moundhouse - Carson City
Reno - Carson City
Carson City - Minden
(1871)
Fallon - Lovelock - Oreana
Oreana - Winnemucca
Winnemucca - Colcanda - Battle Mountain
Battle Mountain - Beowawe - Palasade
(1874)
Palasade - Carlin - Elko
Elko - Halleck - Deeth - Humbolt Wells
(1878)
Humbolt Wells - Oasis - Montello (BRONZE condition in 1880)

But now the hell opened the doors ... any of my meanwhile 16 trains was profitable and also the company didn't fire me, but the (company) cash started to go red and more red. In May 1891 I stopped playing, because the cash was at -$9.395K and there was no sign for any future hope.

Nevertheless I started an inspection of the plants and factories at this point and found, that - besides a destillery in Fernley and another one in Battle Mountain - they all were not at all profitable. I think that there should be a little bit more related resources.

BTW: It would be nice, if you deactivated any train crashes ...

[Moabdave]

Sugus,
I have played the first 4 years or so of the scenario about 4 or 5 times. I have not seen the situation as hopeless as you describe. I would be curious as to how much debt you had, how many locomotives, etc. What I have seen is the towns are so small and so far apart, for the first few years you must be extremely careful on where money is spent. I did consider disabling train crashes as I have seen that one train crash, or one economy crash, can cost years of progress. I had one case in my test runs where I had a long depression with multiple crashes, it literally took about 5-6 years to recover from that. Some crashed trains did not get replaced for 2 years. However, even on that run, by the time I had Fallon, Carson City and Reno connected, I was bringing in enough money to convince myself that the scenario was not hopeless. Once the Virginia & Truckee and Southern Pacific lines were complete, my railroad company was doing quite well. Here are some items I've observed:
*For the first few years only buy cheap engines. This means the trains are slow, but most towns are small enough you don't want a train arriving every 5 minutes as it will leave empty.
*Don't have too many trains, for the same reason. I only had 2 American locomotives for the entire line until I was close to getting Fallon connected, then I bought 2 more.
*I only issued more stock or took out bonds when I as on the verge of connecting to a key city (i.e. Fallon, Carson City, Winnemucca or Elko) and really wanted to connect to start recouping the investment. I've also seen where debt can kill with this scenario due to the razor thin profits in those first lean years.
I'm curious to hear from others, if everybody has this problem, where train crashes kill hopes of success, I might increase engine reliability for the first 4 years or something.

Thanks for the feedback
David

[Wolverine@MSU]

I'm a few years into it (1876 I think) and doing OK. I built some industry (a Brewery in the midst of Grain Farms near Golcanda) the first year, and then started building bits and pieces of line to connect Truckee to Reno/Sparks and the Brewery to Winnemucca and Battle Mountain. Built down to Carson City and Minden soon after requested, and was rewarded with a steady stream of PAX wanting to go north. Bought a Distillery in Fernley just as it was starting to make Alcohol, and supplied it with Produce from around Hazen. The Steel Mill that popped up in Elko had lots of Iron from the North, and I bought it too at bargain basement prices just as the coal from outside of Deeth started to get there. Trained in more coal from the Deeth mine and then built a Tool & Die in Elko to use the Steel. Built out to Montello, and now have to fill in the gaps. Economy has been good (no recessions yet) and train crashes have not been a problem. I've issued two rounds of stock almost every year and issued/refinanced bonds to try and stay below 7% interest (most are at 6%). It's a little slow going at first, and you have to be careful about what to build to maintain profitability, but so far so good for me.

[OilCan]

Good game but player needs some more 'helps'. The struggle to keep profitable the first several years took me several restarts of the game. I finally did something like Wolverine did and built spur segments from the 'one-star' cities. It was still a losing struggle. I gave up after about 10 years. But, I liked the concept of the game. I liked the history notes as the game went on.

Some suggestions: 1) make track cheaper for the first part of the game, maybe based on number of cities connected. 2) add some more lumber camps, sheep farms, cattle farms and dairies. Two reasons -- I like to invest in industry early in a game in order to create a steady income stream and there were too few farms and such to do that. Secondly, it adds cargo to the map and that would be a financial help to the player 3) smooth the routes a little more - not only is it more visually apealing, but it saves the player money in building track. 4) consider slightly increasing reliability of engines to delay breakdowns until later in the game. And, I second the motion to turn off train crashes. 5) I was a little confused by the 'additional lines' to be built until the first one appeared. That's not a big issue, but it would have been helpful to know about them at the start. Also, maybe after they are announced a status line could appear in the ledger as a reminder to connect them.

Overall a good game. I'm not as methodical and patient as others and that is probably why I could not make a go at it.

[Moabdave]

OK, that's a pretty clear message, I need to do something to make the first few years a little easier. I can do that. However, I think adding more lumber mills, etc. is out of the question, this is Nevada after all. =-) It's bad enough I've got farms cropping up right on the edge of the 40 mile desert, just to have the fertile areas big enough to support farms =-) I can also do some more smoothing, but believe me, I've already done a lot. However, the scenario is winnable, I assure you that, you just have to grudge through some lean years. I've played it to its end twice while testing.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I have to agree with David that the scenario is winnable on Expert without major changes, at least in my first go at it. I'll try some new starts and see whether it was just because of a lucky seeding. I also (tentatively) agree with him that there are enough primary producers to make the game work. It's a struggle at first, but careful inspection of the cargo overlay before starting goes a long way toward getting off to a good start. Terrain is managable, it just takes skillful track laying and route planning. The only "unrealistic" aspect I've run across is the increase in the number of Passengers as the game progresses. I've built Hotels in almost all of the cities and towns, and they are reaping huge profits. Overabundance of PAX was noted long ago as a "problem" in RT3. I've had no problem filling several trains hauling PAX between Truckee, Reno/Sparks, Carson City and also to all the medium and small towns/cities along the lines.

That being said, I have to agree with Oilcan about more guidance concerning where to build lines and when. Status page entries would be very helpful here. I found the middle segment of the game to be rather lacking in content. There was a long stretch (mid 1870's to ~1900) where I just sat back and watched trains go, double-tracking where necessary and buying/building industries as needed. Because CBV and PNW aren't goals, I saw no reason not to issue two rounds of stock every year and max out on bonds, refinancing when times were good. I must admit that the worst economic conditions I have faced was a short recession, so maybe that also has something to do with the growth I saw. I'm at about 1907, have over 100 trains (most of them profitable, some highly so) and as a result have had to double-track a large portion of my lines. In addition, there are no "deadlines" for building the various subsidiary lines; perhaps bonus points for building them within the historical timeframe (raising the point levels for medal awards) would help to incentivize sticking to the historical timeline.

It's a very nicely painted map, and except for a few typos (i.e. "lose" not "loose") the events appear to work as expected. I was able to do get credit for the Western Pacific route by connecting to SP just east of Beowawe and using a significant portion of the SP line I had already laid. I assume that the actual WP line connected independantly, sticking to the north side of the river, so perhaps a minimum number of track miles in the WP territory could be added as a condition to ensure that the line is fully built as in real life.

[Moabdave]

Here is revision 2. The major difference is the ledger and dialogs. I corrected spelling errors and give more instructions, as requested. I only slightly tweaked the industrial seeding. I allowed for a dairy farm or two in the desert and a few more logging mills in the mountains. I've played the first few years a few more times. Yes the seeding makes a difference, but played until the company was standing on its own even in the difficult seedings. I figure that if I take away the need to manage money very carefully for the first few years, I will have taken away the challenge of the game. Wolverine, you are correct that in real life the Western Pacific and Southern Pacific were built on completely separate right-of-ways across Nevada. Although, in some parts the tracks are so close together they appear as one on Google Maps (both lines are still in use). I thought about trying to "force" the player to build two separate tracks across the state, but decided against it, mainly as I'm not convinced it can be done reliably. If you know how to, please contact me and explain. All of my ideas were either too complicated or not reliable, so I gave up.

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[belbincolne]

Life is odd - Wolverine could do Yellowstone which I found impossible whereas I find this one far too easy (I played version 2 on normal). I just built up cash and more cash (built brewery) and as soon as the next line availability came along could build it on the spot. Got bored waiting for the next main line so bought in for $1m and built that years before it came up then went on to do the same for the side lines. I'd finished before I got any more side-line offers. Maybe I got a really good seed first attempt. I did issue stock but only very rarely - 3 times at most. Never thought to build a hotel.

There's something odd about how RT3 / RT6 plays on my computer which I've commented on before - mainly that I never need to build services. Maybe there's something else which I cant recognise as easily which accounts for why Wolv and I get such different results - or maybe its just our style of play.

[RayofSunshine]

The 1st version got me nowhere. And the 2nd isn't doing much more. Odd, as with the Utah Trans it played well, once I got some pointers from MSU and Dave, and even with the Yellowstone, things are moving, but slowly. But although this is a great concept for N.Nevada, in both terrain features and its goals, my few attempts are not going that well.

Am going to try a different "boot up", and see if I cannot get a better economy. Then I see that MSU is adding HTLs and buy industry. Will have to double check the industries which are available on the next attempt.

A great scenario Dave.

[Moabdave]

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I'm not sure what to make of this. The comments range from "way too easy" to "impossible". I'm guessing that's a good thing, better than if everybody said "way to easy" =-). So feel free to post if you'd like Hawk. I said I would do two scenarios, one for Utah and one for Nevada. I decided to start a 3rd. However this one won't be ready for a while, I've already had to toss two almost ready attempts as they weren't working like I wanted.

David

[Moabdave]

For those who care, Playing some other scenarios, and your feedback, has given me some ideas on how to improve this scenario. I've got a significantly revised scenario, where the map is basically the same, but the rules of the scenario have been completely re-worked. I'm testing it now and will have it uploaded soon. With some luck, this can be a scenario I'm proud of (above I admit this didn't turn out like I wanted, but is still a so-so scenario).
Thanks All,
David

[Moabdave]

I have completely redone this scenario. This is what I wanted to do in the first place, but didn't know how. I hope you like it. I had to walk a line, I might have made this too easy. The problem is the towns are so far apart, that without some "stimulus" money it's impossible, so I kept having to give more bonus money. I hope I have reached that balance. I think it's much better than previous versions.

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[RayofSunshine]

Well Moab,
I thought I may have missed something for this scenario, as I have been testing, basically playing, a few others, so didn't get back to you.
Will give it a try as I see that you just posted the 3rd revision. And it is hard to compare the levels of difficulty, as I don't class myself in with the great user creator Tycoons, so for them it might be easy, but to others it could be from difficult to impossible.
I like your style of creation and imagination, although it sometimes takes revisions to make it tops.

[Moabdave]

Well Moab,
I thought I may have missed something for this scenario, as I have been testing, basically playing, a few others, so didn't get back to you.
Will give it a try as I see that you just posted the 3rd revision. And it is hard to compare the levels of difficulty, as I don't class myself in with the great user creator Tycoons, so for them it might be easy, but to others it could be from difficult to impossible.
I like your style of creation and imagination, although it sometimes takes revisions to make it tops.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I would especially value your feedback. You broke my Utah scenario by starting companies when I wasn't prepared for it. After reverse engineering the British Columbia scenario, I learned a few tricks. So far, I've been able to start a company at any random moment and still get the correct territory access. Here's hoping you can't break this one =-)

[RayofSunshine]

Well, as the saying goes, each to his liking. Or at least to the "luck of the draw", which is a term in poker. Any way, it will be interesting to see what MSU, Sugus, and Bel has to comment on version 3.

I only managed to get to Battle Mtn by Aug 1869, so will not be able to complete the 1st requirment goal. This is in Med level, and didn't buy and industry or city amenities. Also no stock issued. So back to the drawing board, although I never seem to have an adequate amount of revenue to buy industries. And to lay track to attain a goal.

With these early engine capabilities, I try to stay out of any "incline", and did fairly well. Just thought of it, as I do bulldoze a couple of times when I want to go a different direction, when running into those inclines. Will have to watch it, as it is a $1K per section delete.

I did find that Reno might have "waiting pgrs" but don't want to go anywhere. To try and get an engine "waiting for cargo" making revenue, I even try to redirect it to any city which is available with a consist. Now the Baldwin is classified as an "UGLY", so maybe that is the reason. PSGRs just don't want to ride it. They would rather just stand around, as there isn't a tavern. LOL

OH. I did run into a problem. Well maybe. A notice indicated a $500 Fund for the cnn of Menden to Carson City, but I did not get the revenue, unless the track has to be laid, before the financing is awarded.

I like this concept of play. After the Utah scenario, I know that it takes some programming and time to get every thing organized to work correctly. Well worth the time, effort, and thinking, in attempts to the goals.

[Moabdave]

Ray,
Thanks as always for the feedback. Here's some tips from my playing of the scenario:
As the major towns are so far apart, most lines will not operate profitably until complete. When I started testing, I always ran out of money before reaching the city, with all trains operating at a loss, a hopeless death. As such, I kept bumping up the bonus payments for connecting cities etc. My point is don't spend too much money on trains, at first, as they will just lose money. For most economic seeds, the only train runs that are profitable from the beginning of the game are Reno to Fallon, Sparks to Fallon. Trains to Carson City and Elko are also profitable as soon as the connection is made, but those cities cannot be connected until about 1869. What I started doing after about testing run number 4 is I only run trains between those cities at first (including I won't even spend the money on water towers or maintenance stations east of Fallon), to preserve as much money as possible for line construction.

Check your personal funds for the missing $500k. Originally, I had all the funds paid to the company, but as I tested, I changed a lot of payments to go to the person. The reason was twofold, first, all the bonus money was going to the Southern Pacific, but the object of the game is to build up the competition to the SP, once the SP is established and profitably operating. To continue to pay the SP bonus money was making it almost impossible to beat them. Second, by giving bonus money to the player, the player can transfer it to any company that they can take control of, on demand. To do this, take control of the appropriate company, "issue stock" in that company, then buy the stock using the personal funds.

Hope this helps.
I'm fairly certain I have all the bugs out of the scenario, I did pretty extensive testing. However, I'm sure I'll still have to tweak with the bonus payments, to keep the game at a descent level of difficulty, both in size and weather they should be paid to the company or person.
David

[belbincolne]

Have just managed to start this on Normal. I'm totally puzzled. All my trains are profitable (I run very few always). I managed to build Brewery, buy nearby grain. Then build Distillery and buy Produce. A bit later upgrade. These are incredibly profitable. I own about half my stock and dont need to start a new company and achieve each objective within a short period of getting access - just had three together in short space of time so have only done one and a half as yet. I'm fully connected east-west. Why is it so easy for me yet seemingly hard for Ray and you?

[RayofSunshine]

Thanks for the info Moab, will give it an attempt with your suggestions. However, since Bel has made the comment of "good" results, I know that there are different levels of the economy starting from the 1st initial boot up. I ran into a Recession within the 1st 2 years. But buying industries? I rarely have an adequate amount of most any scenario which I play. Hence I rarely buy them, unless it is part of a requirement, and then it is a struggle. Just not the Tycoon as the high level members.

[Moabdave]

Why is it so easy for me yet seemingly hard for Ray and you?

I believe you, I was concerned I might have made this too easy for a player skilled on the industrial side. The difference is that you built industries. I intentionally have not done so with my test runs through the scenario. However, I have seen that some of the game placed industries are quite profitable. In Ray's case, he's trying to win without buying/building industries, issuing stock or loans. That's going to be much harder to do. From my test runs so far, the game is winnable, even without buying industries. However, without industrial profits to help, I can't do it without significant issuing of stock, acquiring at least some debt, and deferring construction of some lines for a few years.

Thanks for the feedback. I do plan to do one more test run where I do buy industries.
David