New Map: Conquering the Sierras

[Moabdave]

This scenario didn't turn out how I wanted it to. However, I was almost finished when I realized it wasn't going to work like I wanted. However, not all is bad; It's quite a likable scenario. I think I like this one better my Nevada scenario. (Of the three I did this summer, I'd rank Utah the best, followed by this one, then Nevada) This was supposed to be a combination of historical scenario (regarding the Western Pacific vs Southern Pacific between Reno, Nevada and Sacramento, California) and a beat the AI scenario (which I've never done before). Problem, the AI is incredibly stupid with this map. Beating the AI is the easy part; it's the building of the competing line to the AI's that takes forever. I would appreciate some pointers from people on how to make a scenario so that the AI is tough, but beatable. However, I don't think I'll change anything with this scenario. After I've taken another hiatus, maybe I'll rebuild it from scratch with the feedback. For now, it's time to get back to playing other people's scenarios for a bit. =-) Hawk, please post this, and my Nevada scenario when you get around to it. Thanks for everything you do. David

[OilCan]

Look at the events list in Denver and Western, Michigan 1830 and Great Northern (and South Africa if time) to see how the map makers for these scenarios made the AIs smarter and tougher. All these scenarios are good general references on how to write events. I'm sure there are other good scenarios which boost the AI - maybe others in this forum will chime in with scenario names.

The AI tycoon you choose is important too because each one has somewhat different 'tycooning' traits - some are much smarter and tougher than others. Choose your AI tycoon with some thought on whether they are investors or railroad builders or both.

[Moabdave]

Thanks for the pointers. I see that in Denver and Western, the author restricts the choice of locomotives. This would help fix one issue with my scenario; the AI buys engines that are terrible on hills, resulting in the line being clogged. However, this restricts the choice for human players too. Any way to restrict locomotives on AI only?

[Wolverine@MSU]

Probably by events that are company specific and refer to AI companies only and make certain locos unavailable.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Moabdave,

I will agree with you to the point that at least the terrain of the scenario is great. Even the challenges are of interest. But I don't see the possibility of the WP, which has to navigate passes and mountainous terrain and river features, to haul more than the SP.

Basically the SP is in progress with its full route, with 18 engines. Now of the grades being greater than 4%, which are few. They can run full consists, and a goodly amount of their route is double track.

Then we have the WP. The only capable engine for the mountainous terrain is the Consolidated. Well, unless you want to consider the Shay, but the distance from SAC to RNO, does not compare with the Pacific etc. And the Consolidated is only available for a few years.

I even tried to run as much trackage from the RNO area, to all the industrial farms to get some type of haul into RNO. The same method was used in the SAC area, so as to be "some what" in the running.

But how can you compete with the SP, as by 1890, they already have 72 trains in operation. With 5-6 consist per train, there is a sum over 400 per year.

Besides, there is a total for the WP RNO hauls, and the total hauls for "all" rwys, but there isn't any total to compare the WP against the SP. Sort of operating in the dark, to see what edge the WP is competing against.

One item of which is not very controlable, is that there are not many "crashes".

Overall, it is a good scenario, but as stated, won't beat your UTAH Trans. scenario.

[Moabdave]

Ray,
Your feedback is curious, as what you state is happening when you play is what I thought would happen, but didn't, when I played it. For a "smart" AI this scenario should be close to un-winnable. I was initially worried I'd have to make the game easier, to make it winnable. I did a similar thing as you, where I built the line to neighboring cities around Reno and Sacramento, just to get some freight numbers claimed before starting on the sierra Nevada portion. I saw that the closest city that with a good business seed was Folsom (near Sac). I built to there first, to bring in some money. You are also correct that the way the terrain came out after smoothing, the only part of the Donner Pass Line with significant grades is the part between Colfax and Truckee (While in real life the grades extend almost to Roseville, however, between Colfax and Truckee is indeed the worst part). However, when I play, that's enough to doom the AI. The AI usually buys at least a couple of the 8 wheeler and 10 wheeler locomotives, which can't handle the grades between those cites. Before long, the line is almost completely choked off between those cities, with very little freight getting through. A couple of times I was even able to take over the AI company before my competing line was even done. However, to do that would also require that you buy stock in the AI company as fast as possible, at the expense of your personal wealth (which is a don't care for this scenario). In most of my test runs, but not all, the AI was hauling more freight to Reno than me, but required 6x the locomotives to do so, and was loosing money doing it. So sometimes I wouldn't beat the AI in loads hauled to Reno, until I acquired the company. But the fact that the aI was so vulnerable to take-over so quick, surprised me.

For the record, at the beginning of the scenario all track is single track. Any double tracking is being done by the AI after the game starts. However, I was able to build the entire Sacramento-Reno route (via the Feather River) with a maximum grade of 2%, close to the 1.2% the real WP did. (except for the bridge and tunnel approaches, which is out of my hands, RT3 auto slopes those at 3-4%) For the Yuba Pass route, I think there were a couple of track pieces with a 6-7-8% grades near Sierra City.

[RayofSunshine]

Just puttering around to just see how the game should be played. Some of the comments are a little confusing, in the mention of Sierra City, etc. I can see a "territory' outline, but don't know its reason.

But my question. 1st I have no way or indicator to let a player know "how many loads the SP is hauling". Only that the WP has not hauled more, but at the same time, a total of the hauls to Reno area.

I was laying track basically from Reno to Stead, Loyalton, and then Beckworth, at which time a 'newpaper' mentions that the ""next stop of Beckworth Pass". If a player was laying track from SAC via Orville etc, then that notice would be of value as well as an indicator. HOWEVER, is a routing via Beckworth Pass a required routing? Why go over the mountain, when there is a faster, although slightly longer avenue around it?

Now I "save" different portions of play, with the intention to be able to back track in case I realize a better system. Hence the Consolidation ends its manufacture during 1913. On backtracking, into 1912, I still had access to it, so purchased 3, and just ran them from Sparks to outlaying cities, but then redirected them once I had added more cities. The Shay, which is the only engine available with the necessary incline ratio, it is just too slow on the flat, of which there is an adequate amount in the terrain.

I like your approach, Moabdave, in purchasing the SP stock early. Once a merger is completed, it doesn't matter about the number of hauls to Reno. However, if that is accomplished early, there isn't much reason to go thru the routings of WP between SAC and RNO via a different routing. Well, with the exception that it is a requirement.

A great map and challenge, and because I did not use your strategy Dave, that it is more of a challenge than you indicate.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Dave,

I was getting nowhere from laying tracks from either SAC, or RNO, or a combination of both. I do know that trying to match the number of hauls to RNO is probably not possible in the competition of WP with SP. And even being successful of WP making the connection, there is the battle with trying to accommulate an adequate amount of stock to merge. SO, I tried you method of first acquiring as much of the SP to make a merge.

NOW, that was when the fun started. Combining the hauls from both SAC and RNO, I was able to keep buying up the SP stock. However, once I had the 51% of stock control, I was not able to acquire an amount of revenue to attatin the "asking" price, as it was always out of reach. Even during the; few Recessions. But I kept laying the cnn between SAC and RNO.

In the acquiring 51% of the SP, I would periodically boost the dividend to the max. Of course the AIs would then buy it. Then I would drop it down to reasonable levels. Once it hit the top of the market, the AIs would sell. A real "hit and miss" system.

By the time I was in the 1930s, I wasn't any closer, and I depended on the 1920s and 30s for the "market crash", which did not occur. And as mentioned, there were very few recessions. BUT a "normal" came in 1935, and I watched their share price dropped. On a constant checking with the asking price, and my bond issue was at 9%, I remembered a tactic that I had used in a previous scenario. By this time as I continually bought the SP stock, which may have accouted for the SPs constant increase in both revenue, and the higher values for a merge, I had 85% of their stock, which was 685. SO, I started to "SELL" until the merger value had dropped to an available price. Taht was it.

In 1937-38, I upgraded a number of their 10-8 wheelers to P2s for the SAC to RNO, and added a couple more water/sand along the way. And upraded some of them to the Atlantic which operated on the more flat between Davis-SAC and Colfax.

Then my revenue boomed, so I laid a track "OVER" the mountains from Spring VAlley to the SP mainline, as well as from Spring Valley to Serville. It was then that I was awarded the GOLD.

So it can be done, but I still don't see the probability of being able to make a merge, uless a player """aggressively"""" buys the SP stock right from the start.

Did not understand why there was not any attempt for the system to activate a tunnel while transcribing over these mountains. Especially when I was laying complete distances of track. I know that "levels" have a bearing on such dispostion. And even after a newpaper indicated that a tunnel was to be constructed between "somewhere to somewhere". But that might have benn the answer. I didn't lay the track between those 2 destinations.

Any way, it is a great scenario and challenge.

[Moabdave]

Ray,
Thanks as always for the feedback. A couple of notes
1- You asked why the separate territory. It's solely to contain the AI (computer) player, it serves no other purpose. By default, AI players have free access to build (and IMO trash) wherever they want. I've seen two ways to contain the AI in other scenarios, 1- limit the amount of track that can be built, and set that amount to zero for AI players, or 2- contain the AI to a territory and do not allow them to build outside of that territory. I chose the latter, not sure if that's the best way, but that's the way I did it. When I was first testing the scenario, the AI company constantly wanted to build to Grass Valley, trashing the game. So I had to contain the player somehow.
2-You would like to know how many loads is the Southern Pacific player (AI) hauling. This is not easy to do. The way the RT3 engine works, you can display statistics for 1 company at a time. I have not figured out how to display the number of loads hauled for your company, and your largest competitor on the same screen. If you know of a scenario that does this, please advise, and I'll check to see how they do that and issue a "fix" for this one. I agree, I'd like this information myself.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, I was riding the rails for real this weekend =-).
David

[brunom]

Hi

I can think of a way.. dunno if it works though, you'll have to try it:

set up a weekly event, checking against AI company:
trigger: Company LTD haul > GameVar
effect: GameVar +1

This will make a game variable grow until it equals that company's value. Problem would only be if AI delivers tons of hauls, because then a weekly growth of 1 in this GameVar wouldn't be sufficient. In that case, just copy/repeat the event a few times (52weeks x 4 copies would be enough to keep pace with over 400 hauls yearly)
If it's Yearly instead of Lifetime, just remember to put GameVar back to 0 at the start of the year

hope it helps
B

[Moabdave]

Hi

I can think of a way.. dunno if it works though, you'll have to try it:

Thanks Ray for the suggestion to improve, and thanks Brunom for the idea on how to implement it. It actually worked out pretty well.
Also, for Ray. I did intentionally play a round without actively trying to acquire the Southern Pacific from the start. Yes, it gets a lot harder as time goes on. Eventually the AI retires the 8 wheelers with more powerful engines. Once the AI does that. It's starts hauling levels of freight to Reno and it was impossible to catch up. However, it was still possible to aquire as I was able to aquire 51% of the stock and still have the book value under 10MIL (the borrowing limit with AAA credit). Here is the fix to display loads hauled by both Western and Southern Pacific. Thanks again.

File deleted. Now available in the archives.

[belbincolne]

Just downloaded V2 and played on Normal. Got Gold start final year.

Just played normally - mostly railroading but a couple of Lumber Mills were highly profitable. Took time to build the track from Sac to Reno but got there with care (and no tunnels). Tried to build via Nevada etc but this proved hard between the two Sierras.

All the time I was buying both companies Stock. This proved VERY weird. For no reason - economy was boom - my stock halved and I bought two lots of 25k then paid $1m in dividends and wondered if I could survive as I'd no way of making money. I did and just at the right time when I was only a little in the red the AI did the same and I bought 2 x 25k again which just gave me 51%. Of course there was no way I could take it over having cents in company cash and the AI worth was $40m - I was also maxed on bonds.

I then built lines between profitable towns in the south and Industry at every opportunity. This just kept me going and I reduced bonds. Two more odd things happened. The AI owner sold off my shares so I could get 100% and his AI repeated its drop so I got another 25k and had some 70% of his stock. At this point I did nothing to let the money roll in - it did very slowly - each year I issued stock and another VERY weird - I got less than $500k per issue - I would have expected perhaps $5m. I immediately bought back myself keeping 100% .

There was no chance of beating the AI on carryings (he was 10X myself). At the start of the final year I had $12m cash and the AI was worth $40m. Re-maxed bonds and issued stock to get to $16m and then sold off just one load of 25k AI stock. Value dropped ridiculously from $40 to $15m and I took it over. Played on and money rolled in so built tunnel betwen the two Sierras and got the Gold.

The statistics are interesting - my PNW was $56m the AIs only $354k - he acted ridiculously. My CBV was $636m

Interesting scenario especially the care needed to track build - just cant understand how the stock market worked the way it did - never known it happen like that before.

[Moabdave]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I did not manipulate the economy in this scenario. I just let the RT3 engine handle the economy. That's why the 1929 economy crash Ray was hoping for never came. =-)However, I saw a similar thing a couple of times while testing; it's almost like the AI knows you're making a move and are within striking distance, so it sells all of its stock in your company to force you to go broke. =-)

Regards
David

[Settebello]

I spent yesterday's afternoon playing that scenario and I really amused myself trying to take over my opponent's company (Southern Pacific).

In my version of the map (.gmp) however the players are "unassigned" and - worse - the logos of the two companies are not pertinent, that means: Western Pacific hasn't the real logo it had during the time of the scenario, and Southern Pacific plays with the flying pig logo.

Afterwards I ended the game I changed the players names (Gould & Herriman), then I provided to install some logo packs downloaded from the site (including Southern & Western Pacific ones), but I wasn't able to change the two company logos, even if my RT3 1.06 can see and use them with other scenarios.

Is it possible? How to, without erasing the map?

[Blackhawk]

Try going to the stock market tab, then hold control and click on the portrait of the person that controls another company. Then open up the ledger and you should be able to change that company's logo. Be sure to go back and control + click on the original person so you are back in control of the correct company though.

[Settebello]

Thank you very much indeed, Blackhawk, I finally managed to update successfully the scenario.

Apparently it should work fine, but when I try to play it, RT3 (1.06) crashes selecting the "buildings" button when I try to build the 1st station.

These are the modifications to the scenario, in order to adapt it to my "taste":

- modified the player names (from "unassigned" to Jay Gould & Harriman)
- modified the company Logos (WP & SP)
- modified the opponent's metal bridges in stone bridges (an advantage for the opponent)
- destroyed & replaced Reno (city) respecting the original parameters
- destroyed and built again the 2 Reno stations with a longer distance between them (to place a new rail connection)
- added two rail connections near Elk Grove & Reno - Reno NCO depot
- adjusted both cash amounts for the companies
- some small adjustment to the "intro" messages.

I payed attention to respect the ownership of rails & stations when modifying them, and I think to have been sufficiently accurate in it.

No panic. I restarted the job from the original map - without erasing/rebuiding Reno - and everything is Ok, now.