Reviews / Reports of Building to Buffalo

[Canadian Viking]

Woo Hoo! My first game is now posted (thanks, Hawk) and ready to try out. I am very interested in any feedback from those who play it. I've done 18 test plays myself so I think most of the problems have been fixed, but let me know if anything doesn't seem to work correctly.

I would be interested to know:
- What level did you play at: Easy, Medium, Hard, Expert
- What route did you build, and was it one of the options offered to you by businessmen or politicians from various cities or states?
- Did you win a medal, and did you find that achievement too easy?
- Your thoughts on any thing that was part of the game.

I just realized one item may not be clear. The sections of rail that you can lay each year do NOT carry over to the next year if you don't build them. Each year you start with a set number of track sections (which are reported to you) and that is the maximum you can build for the year.

Thank you to EPH who responded to several of my queries here with suggestions that helped me overcome problems along the way.

Hope you enjoy the challenge of Building to Buffalo :D

[Wolverine@MSU]

I tried this one last night and was not given my alottment of track. The AIs weren't getting theirs either, and it made them easy pickings early on in the game. I did get some track at one point, but only 50 sections.

Also, I bought rights in PA at the start of the game to build a Lumber Mill, but when I chose the southern NY option, all my rights in PA were withdrawn. I got rights to all areas after taking over the AIs but never got a track alottment. The event seems to trigger OK because I got the notification screen. I just never got any track. Looked at the event coding and it looks OK. I notice that all of the events have the box at the top checked to apply effects once when the event is first activated. I wonder if some of the events should have this box unchecked?

What happens if you don't choose one of the options during the first year? Can you still meet the Gold requirements?

[Canadian Viking]

Thanks, Wolverine, for your feedback. I put the game out to the public before perfecting it 100% because I expected that other players would try strategies that I have not thought of, and so you did! I have never tried building industry in a state other than where I was also building, or about to build, my railroad.

I am perplexed by the track allotment problem and will check into it. I have had no trouble with that for months. Which occupation did you choose at the beginning of the game? (It can affect the allotment.) How many game years did you play through? (After the first year, the allotment amount for the player changes every 3 years, while the AI's change every 6.)

There are usually a few AI's that do well, and always several that do poorly. And taking over an AI does give you access to it's states. I don't know any way to avoid that except by blocking takeovers entirely, which I do not want to do.

The southern NY option is patterned after the historical situation of the New York & Erie, which by law could be built only in New York state, although they bent that requirement in two places where geography dictated crossing the Delaware River into PA. I adjusted geography in the game so you can stay in NY. When you choose the southern NY option, the cost of access to other states jumps immensely. Sounds like you built your Lumber Mill before choosing that option, and that event must have cancelled your rights in PA. The southern NY option has been the most difficult for me. I have no medals there in 3 tries, although I just missed Bronze by 6 months last night; my last two loads of rice did not reach NYC in time.

You don't need to choose one of the options. You can make your own plan, and start in on it immediately. If you don't choose an option and just start laying track at the beginning of the game, the options should not show up at all. The options are to encourage different approaches to the task, and add variety, as they give financial incentives and the PA and NY ones put restraints on you too, which are in line with what those state governments actually did in history. There are many strategies I have not tried yet, but so far the easiest gold for me has been to ignore the options and start in . . . . - well, maybe I won't say just yet, as I don't want to steer people in any one direction unless they are having big problems making a medal.

What level did you play at? I've done all my play-testing on hard, but there is some variation in events depending on the difficulty level chosen. I hope you give it another try.

[ab89]

I have played it now on hard and made gold.
I built the following routes:
1)Brooklyn-New_York-Yersey-Newark-Paterson-Suffern-Newburgh-Poughkeepsie-Hudson-Albany-Schenectady-Utica-Rome-Oneida-Syracuse-Auburn-Geneva
-Rochester-Batavia-Buffalo
2)Albany-Troy
3)Newark-Elizabethtown-Perth_Amboy-New_Brunswick-Trenton-Philadelphia
4)as_an_express-line:_New_York-Perth_Amboy-Philly-Wilmington-Baltimore-Ellicotts_Mills-Washington

All in all it was not too difficult. It is important that you do not wait until 1949 with connecting Buffalo and the east coast, because the trains with coffee and rice will need some years for the whole route

You have done a excellent job with your first map, although I think there were a bit too many newspaper events. After I had built the first line from N.Y. to Buffalo, the newspaper which says that I have connected Lake Erie to the East Coast appeared approximately 10 times (I guess for each East Coast City I connected). That event should be changed so that it only appears once.
Futhermore I have the impression that the decision you have to make at the beginning does not have big influence on the gameplay. I had choosen "Banker".
I also do not understand why you only have access to Washington D.C. at the beginning. On the other hand, the prices for the other territories (except Canada) are very low.

I had no big problems with the track amount. With the trick of building all the track left in December, waiting until January and then undo the track laying you do not have to waste any track segments.

[Canadian Viking]

Wow! You laid some serious track, ab89. I've never had the money for more than a couple short branches off my mainline.

I kinda thought there were too many newspaper events. I wanted to give a feel for the era - a time of invention, rapid change in transportation technology, religious fervor, serious health problems, the beginings of battles over slavery, women's rights, etc.

After I had built the first line from N.Y. to Buffalo, the newspaper which says that I have connected Lake Erie to the East Coast appeared approximately 10 times (I guess for each East Coast City I connected).

You're right; it fires for each seaport you connect to Buffalo, and you got most of them! I'll have to work on that.

The choice of occupation doesn't make a BIG difference. But the extra personal income does help you deal with margin calls, and each offers some small benefit. The extra track from owning an iron foundry does come in handy if you build a long route like Philadelphia - Pittsburgh - Erie - Buffalo.

The reason for having to pay for access to each state is that some states were quite restrictive with railroads that did not focus on bringing benefits to their state. The B&O had a hard time finishing its original line to Wheeling because the Pennsylvania legislature would not let them enter PA, which would have been the cheapest and easiest route geographically. That would have also let the B&O compete with the state financed Public Works system (canals and railroad) in PA. Similarly, the New England railroads barely made it west of the Hudson River because of restrictions put on them by the state of New York, who didn't want competition for the state-financed Erie Canal, or their locally owned railroads. That type of thing went on for decades in the 1800's. Indiana held up a couple eastern lines from reaching Chicago for several years because those lines were just wanting to cut across a corner of the state and not build to Indianapolis.

You got the idea on the track building. You just have to watch out for bad winter weather December through February which makes your track costs go up. The track allotment is just 150 sections the first 4 years because in the early '30s railroads were still trying to figure out how to make track. Much of it was iron strips nailed to wooden beams, not solid rails like today. And some anchored those beams to rocks set in the ground rather than wooden cross-ties. One winter and the frost heaves ruined their track! Another line first tried building all their track like a small elevated trestle. That was high maintenance! It is hard work being the first one to try something new.

Thanks for your feedback.

[belbincolne]

I've played this twice now - both times on Normal. First time I chose Banker and waded through the options until near the end of the first year when New York came up and I chose that. Unfortunately most of the AIs had built around there already so I never really got off the ground and couldn't even get to Dunkirk let alone Buffalo.

Now knowing what could come up on 2nd attempt I checked all the states seedings and as each AI started watched where it went. None connected around NY so again I hung on until that offer came up. This time I was flying. I also bought into an AI to make personal money and get other states rights and basically was doing really well although one AI was doing far better than me (of course the AIs have no objectives to complete so can easily do this).

Nearing the end there was an incredible downturn in the economy and my personal wealth was almost wiped out as shares plumetted and I got a margin call so that ruled Gold out. Then I got the coffee loads o/k but although I had six full cars of rice reaching Jersey (which I'd selected) I was only credited with three (possibly these were on a none dedicated train going elsewhere) so Jersey City didn't count as a Jersey port?

That ruled any medal out but what was most puzzling was that I was told that I hadn't connected Buffalo to the Atlantic (although umpteen Newspaper reports had told me I had) and I'd actually connected perhaps ten Atlantic ports because I couldn't make any real money on the "main line" except at the NY end without building into neighbouring profitable towns - particularly ports.

Anyway great scenario which I'll play again soon - although I do agree that there are far too many Newspaper reports which can become quite irritating as they interrupt the play. Especially on replays when you've already seen them once.

[Wolverine@MSU]

Maybe it's my computer, but I still can't get it to work. I restarted, didn't start a company at the outset, and just let the game run. The AIs formed companies in the first year, but none of them laid any track. Is it just me, or is there something wrong in the game? The events look OK but even when I start a company, I get my initial 50 pieces of track, but then in subsequent years I get none.

I'm going to download and install the new beta patch and see if that helps.

[Canadian Viking]

Thanks for posting, belbincolne. That is very helpful to me. I'll take your last point first.

I was told that I hadn't connected Buffalo to the Atlantic (although umpteen Newspaper reports had told me I had) and I'd actually connected perhaps ten Atlantic ports

I suspect you were told this in the "Lose" message, and that is my mistake in choosing poor wording for the text. I will need to change the wording because I am quite sure the game registered that you did connect a seaport to Buffalo. But you got the "Lose" messge because you didn't quite fulfill the haul requirements for coffee and rice.

I have never had an AI start, or even connect to, New York City. I think that is because the city is on an island. So the largest city in the game is always available for the human player. You just have additional costs for bridge building, which are much less in the game than in real life for NYC! The AI's are pretty quick to start in Philadelphia and Baltimore, and those cities work well as starting points for the player, too. I've even built my own station in Philadelphia after an AI had started there and it worked OK.

The southern New York state route does not seem to generate a lot of revenue. Do you think it needs some additional resources?

Jersey City does count as a New Jersey port. The catch could be that the carloads of rice were not 100% full. I've found that if my train has 3 cars of rice, but the third one is only 60% full, the computer will only count 2 loads delivered when the train arrives. I'm not sure if the game counts the 60% so that if a 2nd identical train arrives it adds the two 60%s together to count as a 5th load. So I always aim to exceed the minimum goal by 1 or 2 carloads. Plus I send an extra train in case one has a wreck on the journey, which has happened to me while playing Great Northern, which uses a similar requirement.

The Bronze medal should be quite doable. As you realized, the catch is that your railroad connection from the coast to Buffalo must be completed early enough to allow time for the hauling of coffee and rice between the two ports. The Silver isn't too much harder. I've considered bumping up the CBV requirement to $30 million from $25. (All opinions welcome on that subject if you've played the game.)

But Gold requires a careful balancing act to reach the PNW target. It is relatively easy to build CBV or PNW, but much harder to do both. I , too, have found that losing much stock to a margin call pretty well dooms my chance for Gold, even if it happens relatively early in the game.

I will wait for a few more responses and then try to fix all the problems at once and send the updated version to Hawk. Some - like giving you the option of fewer newspaper reports - will be easy fixes, while others may take me some time to figure out.

[Canadian Viking]

Wolverine, I'm thinking that maybe something didn't come through properly on your first download, since others seem to be able to lay track OK. I built the game using Coast to Coast and the 1.05 patches so that is all you should need.

You should get 150 units of track in each of the first 4 years, and then amounts increase after that. If you are a foundry owner, you should also get an additional 20 units of track each year.

While you may get a couple AI's that don't lay track the first year (due, I think, to the propensities of their managers), most should connect two cities in the very first year of the game.

Good luck on the 2nd try.

[belbincolne]

Thanks CV. Rice first. I always have one extra carriage i.e. 6 for a load of 5 because as soon as the last car is 51% full the train sets off so that is only 5 loads. In this case I originally set at 7 then rechecked, saw it had six and that the last one was full so set it off but thereafter never re-checked although later it was going the other way so must have arrived at Jersey.
I sent two full loads of coffee (i.e. 7 cars) and they correctly arrived and registered 12 in total. Rice was obviously the most profitable cargo because on the return leg both trains carried it almost solely. They didn't have time to arrive before the game ended. Interestingly the trains ran very, very slowly because they ran out of both oil and water although I'd put in plenty of depots which would normally have seen them resupplied o/k - presumably they must have gone through without filling. When I spotted this I built a water and oil just beyond where it was and the train went through the water but stopped at the oil!
On my choices (banker, foundry) I correctly got the extra 2% and 20 miles. The AIs never chose NY but did grab the surrounding cities on first try but not 2nd.
I guessed the lose message was just that so, yes, slight change on wording needed. Definitely some of the towns on the NY - Buffalo route should have a few more resources pumped in - there's (4?) years of track laying where the stations have practically no profitable cargo after the first load.
Personally I'd think the PNW amount for Gold should be reduced and, yes, in another recent scenario you get the option not to receive messages and I think that could well go in here.
Shall try again soon - possibly starting immediately and not waiting for the offers.

[wsherrick]

I would like to compliment you on a very good first map. I think it is scenic and you did a good job on it. I had no trouble connecting the required towns, but my rice loads were not counted. I notice all of the hard work you have done on it. All you need to do is buff it up a little bit. Don't be afraid to do revisions to it so it will be better. Keep at it and I hope you continue to create maps for us to play. As far as the many newspaper articles are concerned, they did not bother me as that was the beginning of a lot of firsts during that period. You could think about selecting the most important historic items that are pertinant to your game's theme or era and make them into dialogs. Thats what I did in Big Valley, Blue Streak and the other Age Of Steam maps, the object being that if you play all the maps in the series you will have a good layman's knowlege of steam power and how it works. In Blue Streak, you have a choice of reading them or not as they are quite long.

[Canadian Viking]

Thanks for your kind words, wsherrick. As you are the 2nd person to mention rice loads not being counted accurately, something needs to be fixed. To which coastal port(s) did you haul your rice? Each potential port city has its own event so it could be that some events are ok but one or more has a problem. I'm making a list of revisions.

I downloaded the Age of Steam maps months ago but haven't had time to play them yet as I keep play-testing and fixing Building to Buffalo. I'll try to play Age of Steam this weekend (it's Thanksgiving weekend in Canada :) ) to see how your dialogs work. I would also like to make the needed changes on B2B within a week or so.

Then I want to play a few maps of others for a change of pace. I've already started my second game, having already done a lot of research, compiled the city list and built the basic map. But I'm not going to start adding rivers until these other projects are done.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I finally got the track alottment to work. Don't know what the problem was, but I reinstalled the CtoC expansion pack an then the beta6 upgrade, and all is well. I just started this morning.

Question for the Canadian Viking: I opted out of all the choices in the first year. Am I doomed to failure or can I still get the gold? I don't want to continue playing on if there's no chance for a win.

[Canadian Viking]

Wolverine, you are not doomed at all. Go for it! I've found it easiest to get gold when I ignore the options that come up. The options are there for variety but are not meant to be the meat of the game. I thought few people would try to build from Baltimore, Wilmington or New Haven unless the game gave a little extra incentive to do so. And the southern New York state option is to recreate the historical situation of the building of the Erie RR(New York and Erie in those years).

As I've been working on fixes for the issues that have come up, I discovered another problem. I have accidently used Company Variable #3 to measure two unrelated things. That will likely mess up the firing of the medal events if you choose the southern New York option. If you avoid that option, hopefully all will be well.

Several people have mentioned loads of rice to an Atlantic port not being correctly counted. I believe the events are written properly (LTD rice to territory), and reported properly on the back page of the annual report. But my New Jersey Ports territory may need to extend a bit more to the north at Jersey City and Newark. I can see how a station placed there might end up half out of the region and result in loads not being counted. If the problem comes from another location I don't know how it can be fixed.

Thanks for giving the game another try, Wolverine. I'll be interested in your comments. Adjustments to the game will take me a few more days but I hope to get the updated & corrected version of B2B to Hawk by sometime this weekend.

[belbincolne]

Got Bronze on Expert starting immediately from NY and going north (taking over two helpful companies with a few hundred miles of track saving on the way). If I hadn't been daft and wasted two years and lots of money going along the southern route forgetting that I could get to Buffalo any way I might (but doubt it) have made Silver. I wanted to build a few industries but never had the cash to do it. Lovely game though. Obviously the rice and coffee worked o/k but I sent the Rice to NY.

[Canadian Viking]

Well done, belbincolne. Thanks for the report. I haven't yet tried the game on Expert myself! BTW, your technique for loading your coffee & rice loads, mentioned in an earlier post, is excellent.

taking over two helpful companies with a few hundred miles of track saving on the way

That's exactly why the game allows takeovers, even though the takeover can sometimes give you access to another state, which I would rather not allow.

I tried to make this a railroad game, rather than an industry game. IMO, too many RRT3 scenarios are easier to win by buying industry rather than by good railroading. Industry does still have a place in B2B; just not a dominant one. Most routes to Buffalo have one long or expensive (think tunnels) stretch between cities, and I like to have a couple profitable industries going before I tackle that expensive stretch. For example, on your route it is a long way from Schenectady to Utica.

I have my fixes about 90% done but have to playtest them myself to make sure they work before I resend the game to Hawk. Keep the comments coming, guys. They have been very helpful.

[Orange46]

I only skimmed the prior messages, as I don't want to be influenced by others on my first try. I'm on expert, and decided to be a seaboat captain or whatever. Since I lived within a couple of blocks of the New Haven RR when I was growing up, Connecticut seemed a good place to start. After connecting the 3 coastal cities in Conn, I have bought in to NY to finish my link to Manhattan and Brooklyn. Fortunately, no one else has decided to build down there, so I'm expecting to make some money by building some cheap track out to Long Island before heading north. However, given the limited track (will it end next year?) and the connected track requirement, I'm wondering what kind of route I'll be able to build going up from the city. Well, time to stop writing and get back to spiking those rails.

It's now the next day and I see that I'm getting a little more track and, although expensive, a tunnel provided a nice route north. My LIRR terminates at Jamaica, while my Jersey line only covers 3 stations, but both of these branch lines allowed me to build that expensive tunnel north of NY. I really feared about traffic jams in Manhattan, since all of my bridges are wooden, there are 4 of them including a double bridge from the Bronx that has a span in the upper west side of Manhattan. But, if the game doesn't last too many years, I may get away with it. (Replacing wooden bridges in crowded cities can be a real pain in this game.) The Jersey line comes into the station using a Y switchback just one section south of the station section. This is one of the few areas where SMR excells, in that you can cram stations into crowded cities easily, without spending a fortune bulldozing space for your station.

Saturday: I've built to Buffalo via Albany and 2 short lines that I took over. My cargoes are delivered and I'm struggling to get my net worth up, while my book value has dropped out of the money due to my personal greed. Will I make gold, I only have 2 years. Time to find out.

Regardless, this map screams to be used more with the wealth of small cities and history on it. How about an expanded RT2 Campaign Scenario 1, which started near Baltimore and started my love affair with RT. (I liked RT1, but RT2 was at a whole other level.)

[belbincolne]

Had another go on Normal starting immediately and building north then west from NY. I was rolling in money and built about 5 factories (all very profitable) when my track allocation was used up. I really got Silver (I was just short on PNW for Gold but had it 2 years later - as I'd made the Company Value Target I was able to keep buying my shares back). However I didn't get anything because once again Rice shipments failed to be counted. This time I sent them to NY and when they arrived without being recorded I sent a 2nd train but this didn't arrive although one in the opposite direction did (I actually carried 24 loads of coffee which means that each train had time to make 2 journeys.

I'm now off for the w/e and then away for two weeks hols so won't have much chance to play again for a while.

[Wolverine@MSU]

Played this one on Expert my first time through. Bought rights in PA right away and built a Lumber Mill over in the west, amid a gaggle of Logging Camps. Didn't select any of the build options during the first year. Used profits and bonds to build another mill in each of the following years. After a few years, I bought into NY and built a Tool & Die west of Albany (upriver to intercept lots of Iron). Around '34 or '35 I started my rails in NYC and built north toward Albany over the next few years. Bought stock in companies with low stock price/book value ratios and took over a few of them (turned out to be not such a wise move as they were out-of-the-way companies without much use in pushing on to Buffalo). Turned west at Albany and over several years, made it to Buffalo, while in the meantime shipping Coffee to upstate NY for later shipment to Buffalo. Once connected, I loaded up a couple of trains of Rice bound for NYC and a couple of trains of Coffee (in Albany) to ship to Buffalo. Got the Gold in '49 shortly after the loads arrived. Had to boost CBV a little to get there, so I waited for funds from shipping and industries to build. Along the way, I noticed a company that had started around Albany so I had another go from the start.

This time, I started with the same strategy (Lumber Mill in west PA), but used my profits over the first couple of years to buy back stock. I wanted to get >50% control as soon as possible so I could hatch my new plan. After the company that starts around Albany had been established, I started buying their stock. When I got >50% of them, I used them as a surrogate company to build track outward from Albany toward NYC and Buffalo. Each year I would take them over, and at first, issued bonds to build some very profitable industries and connected them to Saratoga Springs. Somewhere along the line, I started my company building east from Buffalo, all the while, taking over the Albany company and using their track alottment to build south to NYC and west up the Mohawk River valley (I think that's the one that goes west from Albany). Didn't bother with the other companies, since they weren't going to add to my pathway to Buffalo. I connected my railroad to the Albany company in Utica (now the connection from Buffalo to NYC was complete, although I didn't own it all). I loaded up trains in NYC with Coffee and in Buffalo with Rice and sent them off on their ways.

The Albany company was doing very well at this point (would have cost ~$23 Million to buy them out, cash which I didn't have), so I stooped to some Tycoon Dirty Tricks . In about August or September of 1843, I took over the company and deleted all the trains. Over the next few months, whenever the AI would buy new trains, I took them over and deleted them. By the time January 1844 rolled around, their stock price plummeted and it took less than ~$10 Million to buy them out. When I did, I had my NYC to Buffalo connection, CBV and PNY were well above those required for Gold, so all I had to do was wait for the trains to arrive in Buffalo and NYC with their respective cargoes. Got the Gold in September of that year.

I enjoyed the scenario, especially with all the historical tidbits. The CBV and PNY goals seem awfully easy to meet. I may have to give it another go, holding off on delivery of coffee and rice to later in the scenario so I can see what happens in the later years.

[Canadian Viking]

Wolverine, it is obvious you are an expert player. Gold in Sept. 1844 is awesome! Glad your 2nd download came through ok. Jay Gould and Daniel Drew would be pleased at your clever robber baron tactics!

I agree the CBV target is a little too easy, but someone else thought the PNW target for gold was too high. I would like to raise the CBV, but that would make it harder to earn gold, as you would be less able to build your PNW by having your company buy back its stock. So I may leave both numbers unchanged in the soon to be released (maybe tomorrow) revision.

Whether you start at the south or in the middle, I think the NYC - Albany - Utica - Buffalo route is the easiest way to win a medal. For a greater challenge, try building from Baltimore or Wilmington. More difficult yet are the Pennsylvania or southern New York options (the revision will make the southern NY route a little easier) offered in the first year. A tycoon of your talents should tackle bigger challenges! Thanks for the report, which I read with interest.