Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.06.
low_grade
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Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

So I made a map, set some goals. I started it a few times and played a few years in to see how resources were. Now I think I'd like some opinions. Nothing fancy here, just a hauling-goals scenario with a big f-n mountain range in the way, and some pretty tough to connect cities.

I made tunneling 100% more expensive so you can't just build an $8M track under the Andes (it'll cost you $16M now... mr lazypants.)

Once you haul the first 50 loads of diesel to the ports, you get access to European trains, too.

Still have to add newspaper messages, probably some earthquake events. Can you make volcanoes erupt? Or do you just simulate that with an earthquake? Mudslide events with rough weather would be nice, too...

Also thinking connecting to Cali and Cartagena could be Gold goals, with Esmeraldas, Puyo and Loja moved to Sliver goals with Cuenca.

I lived in Ecuador for a year so it's a natural first choice. Even rode a train down from Cuenca to San Miguel, with most of the passengers riding on the roof. Talk about switchbacks and bridges! That train couldn't have averaged more that 25mph downhill.

Well, please try it and let me know. I hope to have a siteworthy scenario under my belt soon.
Last edited by low_grade on Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hawk
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

You can add particle objects to a volcano to make it look like smoke is coming out of it, but you can't really control the density of the smoke other than the initial placement of the particle objects. I did this in my Paphalophagus map. I use two different particle objects, if I remember right. One for just smoke and one to somewhat simulate lava.
Other than that the only effect given to a volcano eruption is set with the earthquake events.
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low_grade
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Okay, no big eruptions over Quito, I guess. Is there a way to localize earthquakes at least?

And not sure if this is the place to ask or if I should start a topic over in questions to the editor/scenario building, but I'd sure love to be able to seed more than one warehouse type into a region. No flats spots in the highlands makes grain and produce farms impossible, and I did get around the grain farm problem by making a warehouse that supplies two grain and produces one more for a fertilizer. I really don't want to have to make this warehouse be a two-for-one and give it produce, too. I guess I could split the region into two interlocking checkerboard style regions and seed grain in one and produce in the other...

And nice to see a couple people have downloaded the map! Let me know what you think after you get a ways into it. I'm only into 1914 now myself. Boy the Mastodon is coming in handy in the Andes, whoever added that train to the mix, thanks!
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Here's version two, if you haven't already started playing.

Found an error with an event. Oops, you have to say it's a one time event or it keeps happening at whatever frequency you told the game to check for conditions! Also fiddled with the checkerboard interlocking regions in the north Andes to get two kinds of warehouses to seed so we get both grain and produce up there, and added the warehouses to the cities, too, somewhat randomly. Also reduced starting cash from $150K to $120, since I was finding startup quite easy.

By 1919 I had connected Quito to Guayalquil, and also Cali, Puyo, and Guano (nice name.) Connecting to Cuenca and Loja was obviously attainable well before 35 years are up. But doing so certainly increases track maintenance and overhead, which is part of the point, so you don't just run track in the most profitable places and then use all the revenue to bang out the hauling goals. It should be pretty tight if you want the gold. And I play on medium.

The Mastodons are doing great on the tough grades, and now I have H10's which will be a little better and cheaper to run and more reliable. Some 10 grades are unavoidable, and very expensive track laying (not to mention doubling) as you skirt the edge of a steep slope down. Mostly can keep tracks down to 6 grade with a few 7s and 8s, though. Possible to find paths up and down the mountains, though not always the most direct route you'd like, and it's not bad running connections between the cities in the valley of the Andes. I like the map so far. Investors aren't always happy with me, though. 8-)
Last edited by low_grade on Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
low_grade
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Try again. Can't just fix the event, have to fix the following messages, too!
Last edited by low_grade on Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sugus
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

I'll give it a try tomorrow - since Europe is going to sleep now, I also have to go to bed - maybe by dreaming "What's expecting me related to Ecuador?" :-)
Last edited by Sugus on Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hawk
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

low_grade wrote:Okay, no big eruptions over Quito, I guess. Is there a way to localize earthquakes at least?
You can't really localize the shaking when an earthquake happens, but you can localize the effects of the earthquake (buildings destroyed, track destroyed, etc.) by painting a territory and applying the affects to that territory.
low_grade wrote:And not sure if this is the place to ask or if I should start a topic over in questions to the editor/scenario building,
The Letters to the Editor is the forum of choice for asking questions about map building, etc. as that makes it easier for others to find should they have a similar question, but this isn't necessarily the wrong place. ;-)
Also note the Letters to the Editor forum is broken down into sub-forums so if you post over there it would be better to post in the related sub-forum when appropriate. :salute:
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Thanks for the insights as always, Hawk.

Here's what I hope will be a final beta version (if that makes sense.) Should run fine though the end of the scenario, and it has more of the resource distribution I was hoping for, with produce AND grain in the Andes. Very productive up there. A lot like Idaho, I've been told by proud locals! :lol:
Last edited by low_grade on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Well, I played through once on medium now. Pretty satisfying, but still a lot of improvements to make.

Got Bronze in 19 years on medium. Oops. Need to tell the Bronze and silver medal events to wait until the full 35 years are up to check. If I just put silver event before bronze in the list, will that make sure I don't tell someone they got bronze when they really got silver? I'll have to check how other scenarios handle this.

Broke through the Andes in two places. Loja was a pain to build to and through, so I'll probably do some work around there.

The P-2 was my workhorse in and through the mountains, and the A1 handled all my flat and medium grade work. I like starting in 1911, great engines from 1911-1946. I changed the start from 1910 so you'd have the Atlantic right off the bat instead of getting it in June of the first year. Always sucks to buy engines and then get a better option right after.

It would be nice to see goals about industry. Tires produced, or just cars, steel, goods, machinery, electronics. Quito, Ambato, and Ibarra are centers of heavy industry in real life, plus then you're not just fixated on coffee, lumber, oil, and produce to the ports. I think I'll place some fixed industries rather than letting it all be random, and possibly not find the room to generate. If you place industries in a city cell, will that count towards the city's total allotment?

Funny how when Quito generates it sometimes puts a house right on top of Mt. Pichincha, which is a volcano.

I was definitely not keeping investors happy. Profit margin down to less than 50%, then 40% when a recession hit. But that was my intention.

Also thinking of adding company book value and player net worth as goals to discourage issuing so much stock, but without all that extra money, the scenario might get really tough, so not sure...

Thinking about more events to add. Definitely some mudslides and volcano eruptions. More Church related events would be appropriate, too. I was thinking they should ask for annual tithes of 10% of your profits, and in return, they keep passenger fares inflated and they add a couple churches to your cities each time. And if you don't tithe...

Looks like the +100% to tunnel building was way more than +100%. More like x100. That's okay, I don't want you building tunnels under the Andes anyway. Plus it's probably not a good idea to build a tunnel though a volcano...

So while the scenario is playable, be aware that yes it is beta and there are a few kinks to work out yet, though nothing annoying.
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Sugus
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

I've played it just now - for 35 years and without any success! !hairpull!

The situation I had at the beginning of 1943 was: all cities connected, but the number of freights hauled too small, only 45 diesel, 79 coffee, 37 lumber and 72 produce. Really poor numbers against the required limits.

I think, there are two reasons for my miss: first, seems to be me, who didn't do it as good as one should. Second, I'm ****** to play RT3 under Vista (patch 1.04 beta)! So, there are no means to force unprofitable transports, which were introduced with patch 1.06 and possibly would help me. (Of course, I first had to "downgrade" the map by means of my RT3p6dg utility. But I hope that I can play the final version of the map soon (under patch 1.06) in an XP session using the VMware player.)

Thereafter, I had a look at the map by means of the editor and saw, that the winning conditions were not bound to the ending year. Maybe, it's helpful to see, how I usually specify the medal conditions. Suppose that LY means "last year allowed to play" and AY means "actual year". So, my specifications are:

GOLD (to be checked at end of month): AY <= LY AND other gold conditions
SILVER (to be checked at end of year): AY = LY AND other silver conditions
BROUNZE (to be checked at beginning of year): AY > LY AND other brounze conditions
LOSE (to be checked at beginning of month): AY > LY

This way, I never had any troubles. Furthermore, the order within the event list is not important at all!

As suggested by some of my German speaking RT3 fellows, I always disable train crashes in the maps I create. Crashing trains are simply a nightmare! Finally, it would be nice to see the year in the annual status, e.g. "n of 35 years passed" or "you've time till 1946 to ... ".

Nevertheless, it's really an exciting map. Well done till now! !!clap!!
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low_grade
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Thanks for giving it the time, Sugus! And glad to hear you found the map exciting! I knew that Ecuador would be interesting at least because of its unique geography and resource distribution... Oil, rubber, cacao, and lumber in Amazonas, but either get it all the way across the continent through Brazil, or go over the Andes to your ports.

I fixed the medal checking events more or less as you suggested. Wasn't Loja tough to get to? If you got there, though, I'm tempted to just leave it as is. I did a little work in the central and north Andes flattening and making routes easier than the import map had them, but mostly, this is just what Ecuador looks like.

As for meeting the hauling goals, I wasn't forcing cargoes, though some were shipping across the map at a very low profit of like $10K per load. But I was adding tons of P-2s from stations in Amazonas with 5 cars min/max of whatever was available (diesel/lumber/coffee). And similarly with produce from Mosquera in Columbia and Piura in Peru and from the Andean towns with produce. I also added stations near coffee plantations and along rivers to catch more of the stuff I needed, not just at cities. And I built distilleries and furniture factories at Esmeraldas and Guayalquil to increase demand there, though I found I had to sell them since they weren't making a profit. Still, I'm thinking of increasing demand at the demand ports, though I'm worried about screwing up the economy as the editor warns me.

I also played on medium. Not sure if that affects starting building density or growth rate or what all, so maybe it would be harder on hard or expert. What level did you play on?
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Sugus
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

I played on medium - as I do whenever I have a first try on a (for me) unknown map.

I think, it's important again to mention, that I was playing under RT3 patch 1.04 beta, i.e. without the possibility to force any (and in this case interesting) unprofitable haulings. (Can't say more to this point as long as I didn't play the map under 1.06.)

Related to the geography: let it as is. Ok - it's not easy to reach any city, but it makes fun! !*th_up*!
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Alright, I knew I was going to regret saying final beta version...

Made some more adjustments and additions. Played through about half way and then discovered that my mudslide event destroyed all track in the game. Doh! Fixed that, I hope, by changing effect options to "affect only territory for which condition is true". I had already done the force territory check for just the small territory I had made mudslide prone, but forgot to do this...

Also made some more fun additions to events. Still no newspapers, maybe someday. Now the church starts harassing you for a tithe, but you have the option to contribute to secular candidates instead. Got to play with variables a bit to make sure events triggered only in the right sequence. Added another event to reward you for developing industry rather than making more hauling goals. Hope they all work.

Well, time to play through it again.
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

I am glad to see new parts of the world getting coverage.

The dialog boxes do not look good with the left-justified lines. I tried this too, and in the end I gave up, and just let it center itself.

Choice number 3 brings the wrath of God. Destroys all. But there is no mention of that in the dialog box.

place them in a small hidden territory and control their production as follows. At the start of the scenario, set territory production minus 100%. When the required conditions exist, increase territory production by 100%.

Check the Event Validation section. You have a couple of warnings there. Also look at the General Validation section; hopefully there will be no surprises there.

I see a grain warehouse where one grain is produced from one fertilizer. The swap will not work unless the warehouse has a profit motive. The supplied portion of the swap must be worth more than the demanded portion. Hover your mouse over the warehouse in different cargo displays and you will know if the swap is happening. In my game, I have fertilizer at $167 and grain at $30. So this swap will definitely not happen! Grain demands fertilizer on its own. You don’t need a warehouse to simulate increased yield from fertilizer. Same for the other crops.

Regardng the churches, it might be easier just to let the game seed them, and apply effects to passenger production instead.

The Gold event should check end of month. The Silver, Bronze and Lose should check end of year.

Many of the events make tests that are not required. In those circumstances, select Don't test... players, companies, territories. It is not a big deal here because there is only one player and company, but you might as well start with some good habits.
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Ok, now I played it, and I won't be so crabby. I started on the coast owning a logging industry chain, and connected everything up in early 1917. I set up a small railway east of the Andes as well. Then I connected Rosa Zarete - Quito - Ambati - Gguana - Cuenca. I built a steel mill at Rosa Zareta. I could not get a good site in the mountains.

When I had the cash together, I connected Guayalquil and Puyo by tunnel. I hauled coffee and oil to Puyo and built refineries.

After that, I expanded into the other countries. The load haul requirements are high enough that you need all the freight you can lay your hands on. I built a ton of lumber mills in Barranca. Along the coast I connected to produce farms in the north and south.

And further, to guarantee the right flow, I built a toy factory, furniture factory and distillery in each of the three port cities. And James Hill style, I razed every lumber mill, oil refinery, brewery, distillery, furniture factory and toy factory that did not fit my master plan. This kept up the prices at the destination ports, refineries and lumber mills.

Finished Gold-Expert in 32 years. 8-)

If I would change anything, I would decrease the density a bit, and correspondingly decrease the haul requirements. Once everything was connected, it was a simple matter of haul-haul-haul . The first 20 years connecting was great gaming. The last 10 years was a little tedious, razing industries, and hooking up every last source of freight I needed to haul.

Overall this plays great, and I think it nicely describes the Ecuador experience. The coding should be cleaner or you would get into trouble making a more complex scenario.

(0!!0) !!clap!!
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Thanks for the tips! I was pretty sure I had a poor understanding of which boxes to check in the event triggers. And glad you mostly enjoyed it. Yes, I thought it was a bit tedious after about 2/3 through, but I'm glad you picked up on the almost necessary strategy of razing industries that kept you from being able to haul to the ports. And glad to hear it took almost the full time to meet the goals.

Yes, the wrath of god is a little over the top. Hope nobody gets turned off of the scenario when this happens. You're supposed to laugh and reload from autosave.

Hmmm.... so you were able to tunnel... I know I reset the tunneling penalty a little lower, but I thought it would still be prohibitive enough to prevent tunneling through the Andes. There are definitely a couple of spots where you can crawl down into the Amazon with only a few 8 grades, mostly 6's. Same with the coast side. So I guess I'm wondering how that penalty calculates. I tried +100% and it was like +1000%, so I figures +30% would be like +300%, but I guess it's not a linear relation.
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

JayEff wrote:place them in a small hidden territory and control their production as follows. At the start of the scenario, set territory production minus 100%. When the required conditions exist, increase territory production by 100%.
For some reason the whole text did not make it into my post. I was talking about the seeding of ports and warehouses. Ports are very particular about how they appear. They only work on a certain combination of terrain and water. It might be safer to place them using the editor, in a small hidden territory. At the start of your scenario, set the production in that territory to minus 100%. When you want to activate them, trigger an event that increases territory production by 100%. This will of course work for supplies cargoes and for swaps. I do not know what it will do to demanded cargoes.
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JayEff
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Your event labelled 'The Church' is flawed. That is why the sequence did not trigger. You should remove the 'Force Test Against Territories' line in the Conditions. Only the Tithing sequence triggered.
pab

Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Hi. I have a problem with sohranieniem and Autosaved naety map. 1.06 Patch, and to have another maps everything is ok. help please. Sorry for bad English. Alex
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JayEff
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Re: Ecuador - a first attempt at scenario building Unread post

Привет Alex! Не волнуетесь. Мой русский - ужас! ;-)

'sohranieniem' не переводил. Мы не понимаем. :-( Спросете снова. Пишите различные слова. :idea:
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