Italian Toymakers - Beta

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.06.
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OilCan
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Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Attached is a beta version of a game I've called "Italian Toymakers". It is a fairly controlled story of running a 2-stop railroad which is subcontracted by the massive Italian State Railways to help deliver raw resources to the Italian toymakers in Milan and haul toys off to ports for export. Your goal, of course, is to become boss and owner of the Italian State Railways, all the while keeping the toy industry alive and well.

This is a 1.06 version game.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback - positive or negative - which would help improve the game.
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Settebello
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Well, I was just thinking about a nice Italian scenario ... and ... voilàà ... your Italian Toymakers does appear from the network's fog. A sheer coincidence, perhaps.

I played it for few minutes, I think that the goal is not impossible to achieve, but I have a lot of notes or - worse - remarks to make, concerning the map, the text and something else. I would not appear as a censor, but ... first, I'm Italian, I can't stand a map not including some very important towns and with some erroneous names, more, my nature is - generally - to tell the truth.

Nevertheless, I am worried to hurt your feelings, you made an excellent job, my criticism should not belittle your efforts and your competence about this nice game, so, I will continue my feedback only if you will tell me to do so. I would be happy to give you a contribution to realize a scenario where everything is practically perfect.

Carlo - the network enzyme ... or ... the salt through the net
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OilCan
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Yes, go ahead and give your comments. But, please realize that most all of the towns were placed for the purpose of the game story, not necessarily because of their importance. I started with PopTop's game map of Italy and made several adjustments for the toymaker story. And...I know that Milan is probably not the toymaking capital of Italy (although it does have a large toy museum), but Milan is situated close enough to Venice and far enough from Rome to add tension to the game goals. The Adriatic sea coast towns were chosen and spaced for the same reason.

I would be very interested in your comments, especially if it makes the game more 'Italian'.
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Settebello
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Ok, but, if you consider that I'm going to become too forward with your job, please stop me; as an alternative, I could send my comments via personal message.
Consider that english is not my mother language, as well.

Italy: it is a country completely sorrounded by the Mediterranean sea (the largest quasi-internal sea in the world) and, due to this condition, its climate is very very sweet, even if some difference exists due to the latitude excursion; as an example, you can see olive trees and vineyards from Sicily (extreme south) to northern regions, only excluding high Alpine areas (northern mountain).

Sicily: I can't exclude that large cattle stations may exist there even if this area is the most arid area in the whole country, but this region is famous all over Europe and in the world for its fruit (orange in particular) and its wines (Marsala, Salaparuta & so on). Just thinking about a "Tarocco" Express (a local kind of orange fruit) instead of Bovini, but everyone can provide by himself to customize the map. Let me say that ... if you haven't never tasted a tarocco orange, you don't know what really is an orange fruit.

Wrong names: "Camerola" (south of Salerno) should be modified in "Camerota"; "Anacona" (middle Adriatic coast) in "Ancona"; "Patu" (extreme east of the peninsula, the heel of our nice boot) simply does not exist ... that place (a cape) is named "Santa Maria di Leuca" and the nearest small town here is named "Marina di Leuca".

Missing towns: I agree with you when you say that your map has been created for gaming purpose, it would be pedantic to criticize you for that and to pretend a 1:1 scale map of course, and I feel precise, not pedantic. I want only to point out that some Regions (there are 20 in Italy) are not represented with a city; a player by those regions could be disappointed of that. In my opinion you should at least add "Aosta", the region capital of Valdaosta, north of Turin, founded by the roman emperor Augustus, and "Potenza", chief city of the southern region of Basilicata. Instead of Potenza you could place a coastal town named "Maratea" (Basilicata region) in place of Camerota (Campania region, well represented from Naples & Salerno), just a little bit more southside.

Other missing towns: "Reggio Calabria" and "Messina" are missing too, on the opposite sides of "Canale di Sicilia", the channel dividing the sicilian island from the rest of the country. There passes all of "non flying" traffic of goods and people through the channel, including ferry-boat traffic owned by State Railways. By the way ... I tryed to build the bridge there, but I didn't manage to ...

Finally: why not to consider "Parma", the chief city of Italian Opera and "Olbia" (north-east of Sardegna island).

Nor I know if Milan was, in 1946, the chief city of toymaking in Italy, but I think that certainly it was (along with Turin) the more industrialized italian area.
It is enough, for now. I'll post later another reply regarding some comments about the text introduction to your fine scenario. Bye bye - Carlo
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OilCan
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Thanks for your comments. I had to look up that word 'pedantic' and now I can't wait to use it on someone. The name changes for the cities are easy enough and I'll be glad to make the changes. I took the names off Google maps. I'll add some fruit farms to Sicily, but RT3 does not have vineyards (I think you have to go to TrainMaster for that).

I could easily add some of the cities you suggested for the sake of keeping the map 'real world' as possible. Here's the problem with adding cities along or near the AI rail lines: the AIs will not run new rail or build a station because the I've set the game to restrict any AI track expansion. And, I cannot easily go back and takeover the Italian State Railways AI in the editor without messing things up. It took me a week to get the ISR balanced to where it did not become too prosperous to take over in the game nor did it become too weak and thus too easy to take over. Adding rail and stations will increase its CBV at the start of the game...and cause its stock price to rise quicker. I struggled to keep its stock from splitting more than once during the game. Bottomline...I can add the cities, but they probably will not have a rail connection (although I could add an event to encourage a couple of connections).

I would also appreciate your help on the Italian phrases and cuisine mentioned in the game. I do not know Italian nor Italian ways - although I've always enjoyed all things Italian and have it on my short list to visit Italy someday.
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Settebello
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

I'm actually running RT3 1.06, and I managed to let it use vineyards simply by downloading the vineyard.zip file in the Xtras-Building & Other page of this site; it is quite similar to rubber-trees plantation, but it is plausible enough. I had only to follow the included instructions.

Intro-text ... words & sentences:

Well, I had to spend some few second before understanding that the mentioned "Papa" wasn't our beloved Pope, and I had the confirmation of that thumbing through the pages of my English-Italian Dictionary. I see that you wrote "Papa" and "Grandma" both in upper case, absolutely nothing to object, it gives more depth to the word.

"You roast your fish on the flames of a burning house" ... never heard something similar but the concept is clear ... something new added to my xenophilous knowledge.

"... your macaroni has been made." Well, "macaroni" is the generally accepted misspelling of "maccheroni", that is a kind of short pasta, here; I think that it is used to identify italian people too, but your sentence seems to mean "the die is cast", or ... you broke your eggs to make an omelette, it is impossible to repair them, you only may eat the final product. That's ok, but it is not immediate to comprehend for a poor italian reader. "Ricotta cannelloni" is a shortcut for "Cannelloni alla ricotta", a really tempting southern recipe.

I feel obliged to correct "pezza novante" in "pezzo da novanta", a "90 piece", referred to the power of a kind of firecracker used in Sicily to celebrate some holidays or occasions. As you already know, it is used to identify an influential, powerful person in every sector, and not only in the organized criminality domain. I hope you weren't thinking about a mafia boss when creating the character.

ISR - Italian State Railways ... its name is "Ferrovie dello Stato" and its acronym is "FS" ... I think that it is possible to download the Logo somewhere (or perhaps I make some confusion with trainz); it could be better to give them the original name, for a better historical accuracy, even if the description of the company is not exactly thrilling.
Most part of Stations are - especially in the northern area - in a Tudor style; I think that it is a lack of the game, Italian Style is quite different from other ones; as an example, the railway Station in Milan is in a good Neo-classic architectural style; however, if we are obliged (and we are) to choose another one, I think that the Victorian could fit better.

Yesterday I tryed your scenario til the start of the new year ... I am sure to have hauled not less than 2 carriages of wood from the country to Milan, but the AI informed me only when the 2nd one arrived there with an 83% of the load; after the end of the year, 0 loads where recorded on the scenario summary. I will retry later and report more information.

I tryed to build a bridge across the Sicily Channel, but nothing happened. Is it allowed to build one there or not?
That's all, I think; I apologyze for my non-perfect language, awaiting for the new release. Carlo
Last edited by Settebello on Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

well, im italian too and i thanks OilCan for making this good scenario. By the way, Settebello is a bit fussy (no offence, i found it on my dictionary: 'pignolo' in italian), but this can help you to make your great map, even greater! Ther's only a little problem...mmmh...i can't go further than 1-2 year as the revenue are quite low from anything transported (my economical map look all red-light red for any good)...this is my problem or anyone else?...any suggestion?
Thanks anyway for your great map!
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OilCan
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Settebello wrote:I'm actually running RT3 1.06, and I managed to let it use vineyards simply by downloading the vineyard.zip file in the Xtras-Building & Other page of this site; it is quite similar to rubber-trees plantation, but it is plausible enough. I had only to follow the included instructions.
I tend to stay away from the extras page, mainly because I forget about it, but I'll have a look at the vineyard download
ISR - Italian State Railways[/b] ... its name is "Ferrovie dello Stato" and its acronym is "FS" ... I think that it is possible to download the Logo somewhere (or perhaps I make some confusion with trainz); in any case, it could be better to give them the original name, for a better historical accuracy.
I know that the real acronym is FS, but I took the liberty of translating the Italian name into English and then took the acronym of the English translation. I would suppose that if this game is ever translated into Italian, the railroad would re-aquire its proper name. There really is nothing historical about this game. If you will notice, the historical events going on in Italy during 1946 - 1971 are not even mentioned. I purposefully kept real history out of the game.
Yesterday I tryed your scenario til the start of the new year ... I am sure to have hauled not less than 2 carriages of wood from the country to Milan, but the AI informed me only when the 2nd one arrived there with an 83% of the load; after the end of the year, 0 loads where recorded on the scenario summary. I will retry later and report more information.
Don't forget how RT3 counts loads. A consist of 100% and 50% car loads of lumber is shown as 1 in the status page, but RT3 secretly counts it as 1.5. If another train arrives with 75% load of lumber, then the status page shows 2 and the secret count is 2.25.
I tryed to build a bridge across the Sicily Channel, but nothing happened. Is it allowed to build one there or not?
That's all, I think; I apologyze for my non-perfect language, awaiting for the new release. Carlo
You can't build a bridge until you get access to the islands, which may or may not happen during the game.

I appreciate your comments. I recognize that you would like to make the map and backdrop to this game as close to the real Italy as possible. I like that idea and I think it can be done.
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

andybis wrote:Ther's only a little problem...mmmh...i can't go further than 1-2 year as the revenue are quite low from anything transported (my economical map look all red-light red for any good)...this is my problem or anyone else?...any suggestion?
This is meant to be a challenge and it gets a little harder in the 1950s. I hesitate to offer any hints right now because I imagine other players would like to take their own crack at it. The only thing I will say is to not expand too fast, to search for all lumber sources on the map and to consider tailoring how you deliver lumber to Milan. The gold medal can be won.
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

well i found a little trick (totally legal in the spirit of the game) to make enough toy deliveries...but, no way, i can't gain enough to survive without the money coming from the State or societies for doing something...very very hard...and i found that the i had not the 300K for connecting the Adriatic cities...quite interesting your events, congratulations again! Gonna have another try! :D
Andy
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OilCan
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

andybis wrote:...and i found that the i had not the 300K for connecting the Adriatic cities..
The 300K is immediately added to your company cash when you place the station, which itself costs your company $200K. If you look closely, your company cash will instantly increase $100K ($300k-200K) when you place your station. The $100K is meant to cover the cost of your next maintenance shed. I did not set up a game message for each $300K because I did not want to overwhelm the player with game messages...there are enough game messages as it is.

Thanks for your comments. Maybe you will share your 'legal' trick to deliver lumber?
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

well my trick was set in Venice for toy deliveries. I placed a station next to the port and connected the existing station: then i buy a trian between the two spots: of course the revenues are very low but no problem at all in the toy deliveries!
I found my two mistakes : 1) i connected Brindisi using the existin station: no 1500k dollars! 2) i tried to make deliveries using the ISR tracks: the revenues were, of course, very low! *!*!*! !*th_dwn*!
:lol: now i understood why it seemed to me so difficult :lol:
Andy
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

I got booted out of the job just after meeting the men from Corsica, it was a bad year for me, I missed the wool the passenger count and the toys thank goodness there was no skyscraper nearby to jump from. !hairpull!
I am not very knowledgeable about Italy but I am enjoying the scenario, this is a game after all, and even if the sayings are not genuine they sound realistic and they add some colour.
Now I have to go back and see if I can keep my job, its hard to find a good paying job nowadays. I also want to see what else may happen, so far its been great. !*th_up*!
I got up and the world was still here, isn't that wonderful ?
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Is it worth playing, or should we wait for a new version?
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Optimizer wrote:Is it worth playing, or should we wait for a new version?
Definitely worth playing. !*th_up*! .To be honest I see no reason to change anything in the map at all but then its not my country, and I am looking at it from a gameplay point of view. Its interesting and there is more than one way of playing it I, just haven't found the winning strategy as yet, real life keeps getting in the way. :-) :-)
I got up and the world was still here, isn't that wonderful ?
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

got a silver at difficult level. No way to merge with ISR...but very very interesting scenario!
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

andybis wrote:got a silver at difficult level. No way to merge with ISR...but very very interesting scenario!
Thanks for the kind endorsement. It would very helpful to me if you shared some of your 'technical' thoughts about the game. For instance, is the player kept too busy, are the haul requirements too strict, is the money provided by ISR for the different jobs too little or too much, did the game story have a logical flow, was the there a good balance between challenge and enjoyment, if you could change one thing to make it better what would it be....and such like. Any technical comments would be very appreciated.

One of the keys to this game is to get off the ISR line as quick as possible, but that's a game long effort - yet the only way to eventually take over ISR.
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Got it GOLD! The only big problem is that as soon as you merge with ISR, you gonna lose all your money. It is just impossible to make ISR a gaining company, too much rails and too little revenues and so: failure! And the game starts to be a little boring, waiting for gold and than nothing to do, as you will fail and no gaining from this moment on...perhaps the economic is just too difficult. Is it possible to modify all this this red-light red (in economic map) for instance after the merging?
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Okay. I tried setting up the routing with access for logs and lumber via Santa Marino ? However all the revenue was used after laying track to Venice, via Bologna, Verona, and finally to Milan. Hence no revenue to continue, and not depot at Milan. Biggest problem was having engines setting "waiting for cargoes".

Next attempt is to start from Turin, giving access to logs and lumber mill. The connection and revenue went well with a connection to Milan, but then ran into a problem. The depot was North of the existing depot as the most likely location for a large depot coverage. However, when I tried to get a track laid toward Verona, I ran into a ""brown"" area, which indicated a low area, BUT there is no way that a track can be laid, even though there appeared to be an adequate space between all the buildings which were in the area. An indicator notice that the area is ""blocked"" did not make sense, compared to other tracks I have laid with similar buildings of an area. Any comment on this situation?

Have not ran into any "bug" problems, but have not really gotten into "much time play". Will now attempt to just relocate the depot just short of present location to see if that "brown" area is going to cause the same problem.
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Re: Italian Toymakers - Beta Unread post

Oilcan, I love your concept of this scenario, it is just that i cannot get anywhere with it after a few attempts. **!!!**
Usually I will save an "initial" load of a scenario, so that I can use it for future attempts, but this time I forgot. So, when I rebooted it, the "brown" spot North of the existing Milan depot was covered by a building. That brings me to another aspect of the scenaio. Although my first attempt enabled me to place my dept in an advantageous location to cover all 4 toy factories, there not being an access "thru" required me to use up revenue and track to get around the city. !hairpull!
That brings me to needing to place my depot on the outskirts, which only permits coverage of 2 toy factories, and 1/2 the number of houses for revenue. Hence, with an adequate amount of lumber, and running 2 trains, I can only manage 4 toys every other year, so, after 4 years, I already have 2 penalties. *!*!*!
Which brings me to an adequate amount of revenue to operate. Although I see a member/player seem to have attained medals, I don't seem to ever have an adequate amount of operating revenue, even though the initial $4.4K did manage me to connect logs, lumber, Turin, Milan, Verona, and Venice. Even tried to sell stock. !*th_dwn*!
Although this avenue of routing was considerably more operational than starting at San Marino and its neighboring logging and lumber mill.
So with 7 stations in a BOOMING economy, I have 4-5 engines "waiting for cargo". And the "steel mill" barely produces 4-5 loads of steel to be of any help. ^**lylgh
It just seems that the "hauling" profits are not adequate for me to operate, so I watch whatever revenue I have on hand, go from the "black to the red", curtailing any operation for construction. *!*!*!
I know what time and effort has to be put into these scenarios, and hope that there will be more "strategies" given by players more tycoon than myself.

So, just to let you know that I not only appreciate your talent and imagination in this, that it is a great scenario. !*th_up*! I just have not gotten to the knack of making much of an impression in its operation. !$th_u$! !!clap!!
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