Alaska - 1955

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.06.
User avatar
OilCan
Engineer
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm
Location: East Tennessee, USA

Alaska - 1955 Unread post

This is a 1.06V BETA game in which the player connects cities across Alaska (no haul goals, PNW or CBV). Fairbanks is used as the central connection point - but, of course, a player can start anywhere on the map. This is a fairly large map, on purpose, to give the impression of the vastness of Alaska.

The terrain is from digital elevation data so should be fairly representative to real world - with some exaggeration of elevation on purpose. The map colors are from Google Earth.

It will be almost impossible to keep all grades at or below 5% in some mountain areas.

The player can build their own empire with no competition or can add up to 4 rivals. The game starts in 1955 & allows up to 25 years of play.

There are 5 special industries for this game: a cannery, a tannery, a gun smith and 2 types of greenhouses.

All comments to improve the game are welcome.
I would appreciate some direction on:
Is 25 years game duration too short?
Are 80 cities for Gold too many cities?
Are there too many fishing ports?
Are there too many special industries?
Are the startup resources too rich?
Is there something missing that could be added?
Last edited by OilCan on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Great! Now I've got something to take me away from The Settlers tomorrow, after I get your Isle of Norso map added to the archives. :-D
Hawk
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

One minor issue I've seen already. In the last dialog box you said:
Gun smith (1 chemical = 2 ammo, 1 ingot = 2 weapons). Build close to a furnace.
but when you click on the Gun Smith in the game it shows 1 chemical = 1 ammo and 1 ingot = 1 weapon.
Gun Smith.jpg
Gun Smith.jpg (33.83 KiB) Viewed 10233 times
Another thing. The briefing says you have 25 years,
25 years.jpg
25 years.jpg (11.74 KiB) Viewed 10232 times
but the status page says 30 years.
Status.jpg
Status.jpg (12.81 KiB) Viewed 10232 times
The win events all show 1980, or 25 years.
Hawk
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

When I connected Fairbanks to Fort Yukon, the newspaper said I got $250K. but I actually only received $50K. My company cash went from $456K to $496K.
I peeked at the event and it seems right, unless that Game Variable 1+1 takes $200K of that back.

When I connected to Anchorage I did get the $250K. My company cash went from $432K to $682K, but I didn't get the $200K for the 5 city connected.

I had the game in pause when I placed both stations. The $200K didn't even come after I took it out of pause.
Hawk
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Problem:Ledger --> Briefing only takes you back to page 3.

Proble with the map when the view is almost top down ... wide angle view fails to show vast portions of the map.

Barrow needs a Warehouse whith a huge demand for 'Machinery" (pipe & other oil rig related goods.) Seward and Anchorage needs to supply the Machinery in vast amounts. And Fairbanks needs to be able to stage the machinery for shipping North.

Comment on the engine options: You'd never use ELECTRIC in Alaska ... (Unless the weather really warms up that is.) You would spend 100% of your time repairing your wires.

Second comment: Alaska would need a new construct for track sections, the: Avalanch cover. (When the reacks were dropped going up and down the Sierras it became appearent that a protective cover was needed ... they are still in use to this day. (watch Ice Raod Trucker seasons 2 -4 where they follow the truckers driving The Dalton. The road crews are constantly stopping traffic to create controlled avalanches in the Brooks Range to make the road somewhat safer

Another BIG problem you'll have is laying track over PERMAFROST. You'll actually have to use elevated tracks and the pillers sunk down to bedrock.

And then there's track maintaince ... A royal pain due to track shrinkage and expansion due to weather conditions. Not to mention roadbed washouts in the spring.

And lastly but not leastly: Crossing rivers... your bridges must be designed to withstand the ice... both as frozen and then as melting and being pushed by the water in the river.

The above are the reasons that Alaska only has one short railroad from Seward thru Anchorage to Fairbanks (& Eielson AFB).

Alaska and the oil industry would love to have tracks to the North Slope and the oil fields there ... Wanna blow a tunnel thru the Brooks Range to get there?

Trying to connect every egloo in Alaska is kinda pointless ... they melt in the summer. Most towns and villages would only need 4 or 5 far loads a year and are better served using the Ice Raods during the winter.

Use Google Maps and follow the railroad from Seward to Fairbanks. There are two reasons that the RR follows the rivers ... bedrock and grade. (It was also easy for the old Huff & Puffs to get water when needed.)


My 2 pennies.

Hans
Last edited by Shamough on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

It's just a game Hans. ;-)
Hawk
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Hawk wrote:It's just a game Hans. ;-)
Areas could be created that are PERMAFROST and the expense of track building across them should reflect that. Following rivers would be BEDROCK areas and track building expenses should reflect that too.

Hans
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
OilCan
Engineer
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm
Location: East Tennessee, USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Hawk,
Thanks for catching the typos. I changed the game duration from 30 years to 25 years shortly before posting the beta and I have been tweeking the recipes of the special industries so they will hit a balance on being profitable.

I'm not sure why you were short changed on the payments for connections. I'll look at the events again. Did you account for the cost of the station being subtracted from your company cash?
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

OilCan wrote:Did you account for the cost of the station being subtracted from your company cash?
*!*!*! Nope! ^**lylgh
Hawk
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Suggestions:
Dropping a tunnel thru the Brooks Range:
  • Tunnel(s) should not be considered or support offered by the governments until oil is discovered on the North Slope.

    Lay track to point "A" in the South
    Lay track to point "B" in the North
    (These tracks will support the construction of the boring rigs moving from both the North and South thru the mountains.)
    Single bore tunnel mostly fianced by Alaska and the Feds. ... 90%
    Cost to Player should be about $10M to $15M per year payable by the year.
    Duration should be about 10 years to complete.

    Tunnel traffic restrictions: North: Odd months, South Even Months (This avoids a communications problem which would always occur using any type of existing equipment available at the start of the game.)

    Adding a 2nd bore will be at the sole expense of the player's company and will have the same time to build restrictions. (New boring equipment and lessons learned during the first tunnel will allow a slight reduction in cost.)

    The need to constantly upgrade the tunnel is paramont. ... FIRE is a real problem. As new solutions are found and developed they should be implemented by the player.

    Moving oil by train thru a tunnel should be prohibited. A pipe line is the only real solution to moving the crude.
Ties:
  • As new ties are developed the player should be given the option to upgrade.

    Game should start with a max speed of 40 to 50 MPH. ... even though the engines are capable of faster speeds.

    Upgrading the ties improves safety and allows for slightly faster trains.

    USE:
    • Track Maintainance Cost X%
      All Engine Speeds Z%
Hans
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
OilCan
Engineer
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm
Location: East Tennessee, USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Shamough, Good comments. I'll do my best to fully address all of them.
Shamough wrote:Problem:Ledger --> Briefing only takes you back to page 3.
Correct. I feel that the status page shows all the other necessary information. I changed the briefing page to highlight the special industries so that the player can study which ones to invest in.
Proble with the map when the view is almost top down ... wide angle view fails to show vast portions of the map.
Yeah, happens to me too. Graphics card issue? This is a very large map.
Barrow needs a Warehouse whith a huge demand for 'Machinery" (pipe & other oil rig related goods.) Seward and Anchorage needs to supply the Machinery in vast amounts. And Fairbanks needs to be able to stage the machinery for shipping North.
Until the oil was found in late 60's, Barrow was a few frozen buildings. Until the oil was found, Alaska ended at Fairbanks in most people's minds.
Comment on the engine options: You'd never use ELECTRIC in Alaska ... (Unless the weather really warms up that is.) You would spend 100% of your time repairing your wires.
Very good point. Maybe I should eliminate the electrics choice and tell the player why.
Second comment: Alaska would need a new construct for track sections, the: Avalanch cover. (When the reacks were dropped going up and down the Sierras it became appearent that a protective cover was needed ... they are still in use to this day. (watch Ice Raod Trucker seasons 2 -4 where they follow the truckers driving The Dalton. The road crews are constantly stopping traffic to create controlled avalanches in the Brooks Range to make the road somewhat safer

Another BIG problem you'll have is laying track over PERMAFROST. You'll actually have to use elevated tracks and the pillers sunk down to bedrock.

And then there's track maintaince ... A royal pain due to track shrinkage and expansion due to weather conditions. Not to mention roadbed washouts in the spring.

And lastly but not leastly: Crossing rivers... your bridges must be designed to withstand the ice... both as frozen and then as melting and being pushed by the water in the river.
Yes, correct on all points. I purposefully ignored the avalanche issue: too much event writing. I will increase track maintenance - that will make the offer to connect the military depots even more attractive. I did increase the cost to build bridges. I could bump the costs up a little higher.
I strongly considered the permafrost issue. I almost created special territories as 'permafrost' in which track would be more expensive. This could still be done.

Thanks for the 2 cents. :-D
User avatar
OilCan
Engineer
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm
Location: East Tennessee, USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Shamough wrote:Suggestions:
Dropping a tunnel thru the Brooks Range: ....
Ties:.....
Whoa! You're adding comments quicker than I can get to them. :lol:

In this game, the haulage of oil is optional for the player; it is not the central theme of the game. The theme is spreading a rail network across Alaska. Yes, in real life this may not be practical and is probably cost prohibitive in Alaska, but in this game it can be done. Please realize that this game strives to blend realism (geography, place locations, history) with fiction (scale, time, trains) to create a source of entertainment for the player.

The information you provided on tunnels and cross ties was very informative. I learned from it and may apply it in another type of game.
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

OilCan wrote:
Shamough wrote:Proble with the map when the view is almost top down ... wide angle view fails to show vast portions of the map.

Yeah, happens to me too. Graphics card issue? This is a very large map.
That's a fairly common issue on large maps. I think the game coding itself is responsible for this. Probably not designed for such large maps.
Hawk
User avatar
RulerofRails
CEO
Posts: 2061
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Well done, on another quality effort! Here's my setup: I played with 4 AI, no bonus, I chose all engines to play with full cost electric track and went electric. (I didn't think that electric would be impossible in Alaska. What about electric in Scandinavia and Siberia? Got some link to explain? I didn't want free electric track, cause that seems too easy.) I started with a line from Dillingham to Bethel. This was good for 900k profit the first year. I then decided to do something different and built a wooden bridge across the Cook Inlet to Seldonia (maybe this shouldn't be possible?). I didn't build/buy any industry until I had connected to Anchorage and Cordova. I went the long way round to Seaward instead of attempting a tunnel. I kept industry investment low and ended up with 91M industry revenue compared to 176M from freight. I didn't play really aggressively, took over all the AI, and waited till I had hauled some Oil to Valdez before taking the win.

My opinion on the questions you asked:
Is 25 years game duration too short? -- No.
Are 80 cities for Gold too many cities? -- I thought around 65-70 cities were worthwhile (profitable) connections, so that's probably about right.
Are there too many fishing ports? -- No.
Are there too many special industries? -- I like the recipes. The Tannery & Furs at 600k with a constant supply may be exploitable. (I didn't try).
Are the startup resources too rich? -- No. I think the map needs all the resources it has.
Is there something missing that could be added? -- :idea: Maybe a Platinum Medal with no debt, Oil haulage (20 each year for 3 consecutive years), and Lifetime Profit goals (200M). Could make harder goals, too. But these should be doable by the average player and could be available after the Gold giving a little more depth than the simple connect cities goal. Players who like to simply connect cities can still get their Gold. And building a sustainable railway is also worthwhile.

Notes:
lawyer is misspelled in the Moose Fine events.
The dialog for "Oil in Alaska" has a couple of grammar/spelling mistakes near the start. such as "seepage".

I thought that the cost for new Reindeer herds was too low. Purchasing the ranches and building an upgraded Tannery over them at a cost of 4M yields a profit of around 2M a year. I would double the cost. I realize that in my game it was a tempting use for cash that could have gone into a new connection. If this was the intention I understand. They didn't pay for themselves before I took the Gold, but in a 5 year span you will double your money.

I had 2 Breweries in both Haycock and Marshall with no Grain or Rice anywhere nearby, any reason or just for looks? I did get 2 new Furnaces sprout in Purgatory with the original one giving a total of three. Maybe density could be a bit less there?

Thanks for a great scenario!

PS. The difficulty levels are 0-3. 3 being Expert. I saw the event for 3&4. This will only apply to Expert. There is no 4.
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

BTW I love the map. !!howdy!! {,0,}

One little map gotcha: Prudhoe Bay is a body of water. The Northern terminus of The Dalton Ice Road (AK State 11) is Deadhorse, AK on Prudhoe Bay ... well near it anyway ... well as close to it as the land area will allow ... you know ... the stuff that doesn't melt, and turn into bog, when the sun shines on it.

Problem: TOO many digits:

EVENT:
90 Cities XXXX
You have >= 901

Should be > 90

All of the EVENTS XX Cities tests only need "=" and not ">=". You're only triggering the events once when when the city count is true as the city is connected. Example: 20 Cities is only triggered once when the 20th city is connected. 90 Cities XXXX will only trigger when the 91 city is connected. As for the Gold Star ... I'd rather receive a 4 pound gold nugget! ^**lylgh


UNLESS you're trying to pay a BONUS for each city ... then the CONDITION logic needs tweaking.

Hans

P.S.
I'd add demand at all airport cities for AVGAS (Diesel)
Last edited by Shamough on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

My first run at this one was just a preliminary 'trial run'. I just wanted to see what the map was all about. It wasn't a serious attempt. Just testing.

I had 11 oil trains running from Prudhoe Bay to Valdez. I used the DD40AX. A couple years I got 38 loads of oil delivered, but mostly 31 or 23/24. An occasional 15.
That turned out to not be very profitable for me. I was loosing money most of the time.
I had the trains set to 8 min. loads of oil (they rarely had to wait for a full load and then not long when they did have to wait, although after a few years they ended up having to wait longer and longer) and a return trip of 8 anything, which most times they returned empty. Sometimes with meat. Most of the trains never showed a profit. I also had them set as high priority.
I did not route the trains to anywhere else. Just between Prudhoe Bay and Valdez. Here's a shot of the route before connecting to the last 2 cities.
Oil_Train.jpg
Oil_Train.jpg (13.39 KiB) Viewed 6547 times
Like RoR, I opted for the long trip around the mountain to Valdez instead of tunneling. Actually, I never built a tunnel anywhere.
I did connect the required cities but I didn't even try for the 80 count. Not on that play (my next play will be more 'serious' :mrgreen: )

Aside from my erroneous claim of not getting the money I so rightly deserved !facepalm! (as mentioned in a previous post), I didn't really find any errors, but - like I said, I wasn't really trying to win. This post is mainly to comment on the oil trains.

Something I thought of might be to make the area north of the arctic circle a separate territory, since trains running there are affected. That way the player knows when they are crossing the line.
Hawk
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Is it just me or does something about this event not seem quite right?
Tourism.jpg
Tourism.jpg (33.06 KiB) Viewed 6542 times
Hawk
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

I got Gold at the end of Jan. 1976.

I didn't find any problems, other than what I've already mentioned. I did find myself burning track near the end, but I still tried to follow valleys and such. I only built one tunnel just east of Galavin.

I didn't chose any AI. I didn't really play the stock market either. I did not take the oil offer this time, but I did grab the 6 reindeer farms and utilized them. That seemed to turn out pretty profitable.

Here's a shot of my track, for whatever it's worth.
Track.jpg
Track.jpg (14.02 KiB) Viewed 6525 times
Is 25 years game duration too short? - No, I don't think so. I made it with a couple years to spare, course I wasn't playing on hard or expert either. ^**lylgh
Are 80 cities for Gold too many cities? - It's definitely doable, but near the end it was a bit of a routine to achieve and a lot of trains weren't very profitable. I had time to connect more, but maybe you could throw a couple more 'Got'chas' in there to make it a little harder.
Are there too many fishing ports? - I only used one at Seldovia. I never did connect to Kodiak Island.
Are there too many special industries? - All I used was the cannery and tannery. More advanced players might find a use for the others.
Are the startup resources too rich? - No, not in my opinion.
Is there something missing that could be added? - I mentioned in a previous post about making a territory for the Arctic Circle. I did find this scenario not quite as involved as some of your others.


All-in-all I enjoyed it, but then I've always wanted to go to Alaska. It's one of the things on my bucket list but sadly, I may have to scratch it off. :-(

One final thought: There should be more snow. :mrgreen:

I'd like to play this map again but I'll wait and see what changes you make first. :salute:
Hawk
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

Thoughts & Suggestions:

Blizzards force trains to run at 10% speed and last for a few days each winter.

All engines should have 10-20% surcharge added to their purchase price to WINTERIZE them.

Track maintainence should go way up in the winter and spring.

Once oil is discovered on the North Slope toss in 2-4 warehouses in Seward and Anchorage and another 2-4 in Fairbanks to supply LOTS of machinery for the oil fields. Add a new port in Seward and Anchorage to supply additional machinery.
Toss in about 10 warehouses with demands for machinery in and around Deadhorse (Prudhoe Bay).

In my opinion trying to connect every iglo in Alaska is a waste. Most of these small towns live off of 3 to 5 truck loads of goods from Fairbanks yearls ... that's only about one boxcar of goods, (The only exception being when they decide to build a new school or some other community center which requires up to 7 trucks in a year ... 2 box cars.). Total waste of track and money UNLESS the STATE of ALASKA is willing to subsidize the lines ... like totally pay for them and finance the trains that deliver goods to the villages... ( learned a lot about the econimics of Alaska from watching Ice Road Truckers (Seasons 2-4) and Flying Wild Alaska.) Some of the villages on your map get a temporary 5-10% boost in population when a truck arives delivering goods. It is litterly easier and a lot cheaper to grade a small landing strip and fly in most goods.


An aside:
Barrow is a Northern Airport hub and needs a constant supply of AVGAS and JET FUEL. For the most part it is subsidized by the state of Alaska and is used to transport natives, goods and supplies, sports people and oil field workers. Most flights are made during the late spring and summer ... emergency flights year round weather permitting.

Nome is basically a gold field town. Track to Nome would allow the import of large deep water (greater than 20 feet deep) dredges for use in the bay. At present most of the open water dredging is done by divers and a couple of LARGE back hoes workign on floating platforms that are so unsteady that they need to come in to port when the swells reach about 4 feet. Consider this ... Nome has no industry other than supporting the miners. In 15-30 years it will be mostly under water.

End aside ... end blathering

Hans
Last edited by Shamough on Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
OilCan
Engineer
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm
Location: East Tennessee, USA

Re: Alaska - 1955 BETA VERSION Unread post

RulerofRails wrote: Is there something missing that could be added? -- :idea: Maybe a Platinum Medal with no debt, Oil haulage (20 each year for 3 consecutive years), and Lifetime Profit goals (200M). Could make harder goals, too. But these should be doable by the average player and could be available after the Gold giving a little more depth than the simple connect cities goal. Players who like to simply connect cities can still get their Gold. And building a sustainable railway is also worthwhile.
Good idea. I can easily add a Platinum medal as an option for the player. This would force a player to judicially issue stocks during the game.
I thought that the cost for new Reindeer herds was too low.
It is always hard to judge the Goldilocks amount to charge.
I had 2 Breweries in both Haycock and Marshall with no Grain or Rice anywhere nearby, any reason or just for looks? I did get 2 new Furnaces sprout in Purgatory with the original one giving a total of three. Maybe density could be a bit less there?
The breweries and distilleries only appear in 'Europeanized/Americanized' towns - not native towns. This reduces the number of towns this type of industry can appear in, and in some towns it may be the only industry. Same for the furnace. I will look again at the city industry list for these towns and adjust.

I will also correct the typos and the difficulty level - but I was almost certain that the scale ran from 1 to 4 not 0 to 3.
Post Reply