Editing input-output ratio

[Optimizer]

My number one wish for editing right now is the ability to alter the ratio between input and output for existing industries.

For instance, I would like the Dairy Processor to turn out 1 load of Cheese for 3 loads of Milk, and the Brewery to turn out 2 loads of Alcohol for 1 load of Grain.

This would really increase strategic depth and realism. Since milk is much more bulky than cheese, a Dairy processor would be most profitable when close to the farm. But since a bottle of beer with packaging weighs much more than the amount of grain needed to brew it, most breweries are in town, close to the consumers, but far from the grainfields.

How can I do this?

[Wolverine@MSU]

You can get an Excel spreadsheet written by WP&P here:

http://wpandp.com/BuildingPlannerMRR.zip

It details the structure of the BCA files. You have to know a little about HEX editing to make sure you don't screw up the settings. Ned (Trainmaster) is probably the "Expert" on editing these files (BCA and BTY).

What would really be nice would be to have a GUI that would take care of the dirty work of editing these files.

Hawk: I couldn't find WP&P's BuildingPlanner in the "Extras" page. If he gives the OK, it would probably be a useful thing to post.

[Hawk]

Hawk: I couldn't find WP&P's BuildingPlanner in the "Extras" page. If he gives the OK, it would probably be a useful thing to post.

I'll shoot him a email and see what he says.

[WPandP]

Here's my Okay - I'm at work so I haven't seen that email yet, but I see the discussion. The Bldg. Planner was a tool I created for my own understanding, mapping out graphically what others (pJay I think) had determined in the form of text notes, which are already available here. I used a 16-column view similar to how my hex editor was presenting things by default, but I've since learned that you can generally configure the display to as many columns as you prefer; when I got into 3DP editing I used 12 columns (3 blocks of 4 bytes) so that all of the X, Y, and Z coordinates of points lined up vertically.

At any rate, this is just an explanatory tool; it does not change BCA files or output anything. Purely for reference.

[Optimizer]

Thank you, this works great!

This is also helpful to encourage advanced industrial chains before the simpler ones go obsolete. If a Tool & Die needs 3 cars of Iron to make 1 car of Goods, Steel Mills would certainly become more useful even before the Iron-Goods production goes obsolete.

An interesting project would be a mod which reforms all existing industries, so the game becomes simpler to play, but more difficult to master.

[WPandP]

Thank you, this works great!

This is also helpful to encourage advanced industrial chains before the simpler ones go obsolete. If a Tool & Die needs 3 cars of Iron to make 1 car of Goods, Steel Mills would certainly become more useful even before the Iron-Goods production goes obsolete.

An interesting project would be a mod which reforms all existing industries, so the game becomes simpler to play, but more difficult to master.

I'm gonna beat NedFumpkin to it...

Ahem.
Trainmaster!

Enjoy hunting through these forums for the developments there.

[Optimizer]

Downloading the Trainmaster scenarios right now...

[Optimizer]

TM is interesting indeed, but the door for co-operative development seems to be closed.

What kind of changes in production ratio would you prefer? I am experimenting with this right now except the ones already mentioned:

Iron Mine: 4 Iron, Coal Mine: 4 Coal, Bauxite Mine: 4 Bauxite
This is to encourage dedicated mine trains, and to offset the loss of materials in the next stage.

Steel Mill: 1 Iron + 1 Coal = 1 Steel.
Realistic. Encourages Steel Mills in mining districts, but allows consumers to be far away.

Tool & Die: 3 Iron = 1 Goods.
Now there is a good reason to set up a Steel Mill even before this production line goes obsolete; putting a Tool & Die at an Iron Mine is not that good a bargain anymore!

Aluminum Mill: 3 Bauxite = 1 Aluminum.
Realistic. Cost of Aluminum Mills can be increased to simulate the great cost of electric power.

Meatpacking Plant: 2 Livestock = 1 Meat
Livestock on the hoof are bulky. A large part of the animal is not eaten. As refrigeration technology and animal rights movements have advanced, the meatpacking plants have moved closer to the farm than the consumers.

What do you say?

[Hawk]

TM is interesting indeed, but the door for co-operative development seems to be closed.

The door for co-operative development has never been closed here. It may seem that way to you since you only joined the forum a couple of days ago and come in here like gang-busters wanting to change this and that and haven't even given the folks here a chance to get to know you.
Ned is busy with TM and most folks here are looking forward to it. I know I am.
If you want to start making all these changes, learn what hex editing program some of the folks here use, learn how to use it and start trying to make the changes yourself. I'm sure those with the knowledge would be willing to help out, if you try to get along and not appear to be making demands.

[WPandP]

Just briefly, let me say that I did fiddle with coal mines to make them produce 3 instead of 2 loads annually, so that I could revel in my preferred Appalachian coal hauling. This small tweak was sufficient to flood the map with coal. So, if one were to go to 4 per year, then scenarios would need to be recrafted to reduce the number of coal mines popping up. Otherwise, you get an oversupply of coal and not enough price gradient to get it moving over rails in-game; it will just "walk" in 0.10 car lots everywhere, never quite valuable enough to get loaded onto auto-consists. Economic balance is tricky, esp. when the goal is to maximize rail traffic.

Like others have said, it isn't too hard to learn a bit of hex-editing and use the info and expertise available here to try out your own mods, even if they are just slightly editing production ratios. And Trainmaster, while a thorough overhaul of the industry chain (among other things), is intended to be open-ended so that you can fiddle with things if you like. We've been producing mods that are being incorporated into TM for several years now, and if you scour for older posts you will see that most such mods can be tried out as stand-alone items, if you like.

[Blackhawk]

Good luck making the changes. Sounds like an interesting concept, although the prices of the items would have to be looked at as well. I don't know how it all works but if hypothetically milk costs $10 a load and cheese costs 20 or even $30 it'll now cost $30 (3 milk to make 1 cheese) to make cheese worth the same value. Plus the industry still has its labor expenses so the industry itself, even when producing products is now losing money. So if the pricing is set in a file somewhere as well that'll likely have to get looked at.
You can always use a scenario event to increase the output of the mines as well to see how they'd preform at ex. 200% output before you make any changes in a hex editor. -shrugs- most of this all goes above my level of comprehension in the game.

[Optimizer]

TM is interesting indeed, but the door for co-operative development seems to be closed.

The door for co-operative development has never been closed here. It may seem that way to you since you only joined the forum a couple of days ago and come in here like gang-busters wanting to change this and that and haven't even given the folks here a chance to get to know you.
Ned is busy with TM and most folks here are looking forward to it. I know I am.

Okay, it seems like I would need some more patience with TM.

[Optimizer]

Good luck making the changes. Sounds like an interesting concept, although the prices of the items would have to be looked at as well.

Indeed. These features need some testing. As I changed the Dairy Processor's ratio to 3:1, they sucked up all milk on the map, but lost money even if they reached full production rate. Higher milk production and lower milk prices solved that problem, giving a decent profit to each part in the cheese production chain. (With original settings, the dairy farms made ridiculously high profits. With my settings they became more moderate.) I also altered the Dairy Processor starting date to 1800, so that even the old-time scenarios can carry cheese.

[Optimizer]

So, if one were to go to 4 per year, then scenarios would need to be recrafted to reduce the number of coal mines popping up. Otherwise, you get an oversupply of coal and not enough price gradient to get it moving over rails in-game; it will just "walk" in 0.10 car lots everywhere, never quite valuable enough to get loaded onto auto-consists. Economic balance is tricky, esp. when the goal is to maximize rail traffic.

I am looking at this mining issue too. So far, it seems like the problem is solved by itself, as Steel Mills' demand for Coal doubles.