Given what happened to RT4 (SMR), I have been awaiting Civ V with great trepidation. However, the attached link to Gamespot's preview is starting to alleviate some of that anxiety. If only they would do to RT3 what they seem to be doing to Civ IV.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civ ... e=previews
Civ V
Re: Civ V
As long as they remember that in sim games, looks aren't everything and that game play matters more (which they didn't in SMR) then it should be okay.
That said, I really love Civ4 and still play it, and aren't all that sure if they could improve it enough to make me want to upgrade but, guess we shall see.
That said, I really love Civ4 and still play it, and aren't all that sure if they could improve it enough to make me want to upgrade but, guess we shall see.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
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thegrindre
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- Location: Central Arkansas
Re: Civ V
I'm not really changing the topic but am curious. Why aren't you guys playing Tropico? I'd like a fair assessment between Tropico and Civ.
a.k.a. Rick
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
Re: Civ V
I played the Tropico demo when it first came out and found it to be interesting, but that was all. Tropico isn't a 3x game as far as I'm concerned (explore, expand, exploit or whatever the x's stand for). It seemed to be something else - a Sim City game with a story - but I think that once I played the game thru, I probably would not want to play it again. I do buy single play games if I see them cheap, but lately that doesn't even work for me as I spend too much time playing RT3 and Civ IV, leaving little time for other games I have and don't get to play.
So, thegrindre, what turns you on about Tropico? I did not realize that the series was up to Tropico 3 with an add on. Clearly, people like it.
edit- I just checked out the gamespot review, and it does seem to have merit. With the dumbing down of the SimCity series, I do need a new game of that type.
So, thegrindre, what turns you on about Tropico? I did not realize that the series was up to Tropico 3 with an add on. Clearly, people like it.
edit- I just checked out the gamespot review, and it does seem to have merit. With the dumbing down of the SimCity series, I do need a new game of that type.
Quality is Job 1.01
Re: Civ V
I have not played the latest Civ 4 (after all the expansions which apparently made it much better than just Civ 4 alone) and I didn't even know they made a Tropico 2 and 3, But I have played Civ 2 and 3, Alpha Centauri, as well as other games like it. And I have played Tropico and other games somewhat similar in nature to it. (Sierra's City-building games)
I think it would be difficult to give a fair assessment between Civ and Tropico as they are fairly different types of games. Civ focuses more on building settlers who create a city, and then that city produces troops or city improvements, or another settler to start another city etc. Then throw in some negotiation, researching of technology, trade and either win a diplomatic victory or build enough troops to go conquer other cities and win a military victory and that's pretty much the basics to the game.
Tropico is more like a single city/territory, and is more like the Caesars Series, it's more of a city-building type game with some aspects of Sim-City. You are given an area of land which you need to develop, grow, and micromanage to keep the people happy and reach a goal. It's been years since I've played Tropico 1 so I can't remember the details but I think had to build farms to feed the people, then build tourist areas for money, and possibly other crafts/trades as well.
Civ is also a turn based game, whereas Tropico is real time. I enjoy both types of games, but I'd probably have to say the types of games like Tropico, Caesar III, and Pharaoh are more difficult and require a greater attention to detail than Civ type games.
The only empire building type of game that I can think of that was real-time was Europa Universalis and the games it inspired.
I think it would be difficult to give a fair assessment between Civ and Tropico as they are fairly different types of games. Civ focuses more on building settlers who create a city, and then that city produces troops or city improvements, or another settler to start another city etc. Then throw in some negotiation, researching of technology, trade and either win a diplomatic victory or build enough troops to go conquer other cities and win a military victory and that's pretty much the basics to the game.
Tropico is more like a single city/territory, and is more like the Caesars Series, it's more of a city-building type game with some aspects of Sim-City. You are given an area of land which you need to develop, grow, and micromanage to keep the people happy and reach a goal. It's been years since I've played Tropico 1 so I can't remember the details but I think had to build farms to feed the people, then build tourist areas for money, and possibly other crafts/trades as well.
Civ is also a turn based game, whereas Tropico is real time. I enjoy both types of games, but I'd probably have to say the types of games like Tropico, Caesar III, and Pharaoh are more difficult and require a greater attention to detail than Civ type games.
The only empire building type of game that I can think of that was real-time was Europa Universalis and the games it inspired.
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thegrindre
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Re: Civ V
Thank you for the input.
I happen to love these types of games as well. I started with SimCity 1 many years ago and still have SimCity 4 to this day. I'm even a contributor to the SimCity series, btw. (Many re-skins and models for both 3 & 4.)
I discovered Anno 1701 a few years ago and found it to be another wonderful city building type game set in the 1700's with ship trading for your resources. (Very challenging and lots of fun. Especially on the higher levels.)
Reason I've asked is I'm looking for another similar type game but don't particularly care for war or fighting in it. I get my war and fighting kicks out of a strategy and tactile based game called, Soldiers: Heroes Of World War II, or, SHOWWII for short. (Absolutely fantastic war game based solely on strategy and tactics to win.)
I found Tropico on the RRT disc and have been playing it for a change. I rather liked it and wanted to know if it was worth buying?
I happen to love these types of games as well. I started with SimCity 1 many years ago and still have SimCity 4 to this day. I'm even a contributor to the SimCity series, btw. (Many re-skins and models for both 3 & 4.)
I discovered Anno 1701 a few years ago and found it to be another wonderful city building type game set in the 1700's with ship trading for your resources. (Very challenging and lots of fun. Especially on the higher levels.)
Reason I've asked is I'm looking for another similar type game but don't particularly care for war or fighting in it. I get my war and fighting kicks out of a strategy and tactile based game called, Soldiers: Heroes Of World War II, or, SHOWWII for short. (Absolutely fantastic war game based solely on strategy and tactics to win.)
I found Tropico on the RRT disc and have been playing it for a change. I rather liked it and wanted to know if it was worth buying?
a.k.a. Rick
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
Re: Civ V
I guess whether or not Tropico was worth buying depends on how much it costs. If you can find it cheap somewhere it might be worth it. I got it for free from a friend when he gave it to me as it was bundled with some other game he bought. I think I made it about halfway through the game. It wasn't a bad game, I just never got all the way through it. I have a hard time making it all the way through city-building type games. I've gone back to replay Caesars III several times, and by the time I get to some of the later missions/cities I've just grown tired of the game, and then a couple years later I'll go back and again repeat the process. I really need to figure out where I saved my save game folder and try to remember the strategies of building things in that game.
Anyway, if you like the demo of Tropico you'd probably like the full game. I don't know what Tropico 2 or 3 are like so I can't comment on those. I haven't played Anon 1701 either. In Tropico you have to build farms/factories to keep workers busy and happy and producing, I think you also had a tourist industry to build up, then you had to balance your relations with the US and Russia. And the interesting part of the game was when people tried to have elections and you could jail them or I think have them "taken out" although people might start to suspect you of being behind it. At the time the game came out I thought it brought a creative twist to the city-building type of games, but I haven't played a new city-building game in years so I'm not sure how "creative" it really is anymore.
Anyway, if you like the demo of Tropico you'd probably like the full game. I don't know what Tropico 2 or 3 are like so I can't comment on those. I haven't played Anon 1701 either. In Tropico you have to build farms/factories to keep workers busy and happy and producing, I think you also had a tourist industry to build up, then you had to balance your relations with the US and Russia. And the interesting part of the game was when people tried to have elections and you could jail them or I think have them "taken out" although people might start to suspect you of being behind it. At the time the game came out I thought it brought a creative twist to the city-building type of games, but I haven't played a new city-building game in years so I'm not sure how "creative" it really is anymore.
Re: Civ V
Well, Civ V is out and here are some lows and highs. I have only played one small game plus the tutorial and haven't come close to figuring out this game. It's definitely different than its predessors.
Installing the game really stunk - taking 30 minutes just to get a steam account and 2 hours to install after that. You can't tell what city hexes are being worked without going into the city and clicking again, which is a throw back to Civ 3. Although individual cities don't get unhappy, if overall happiness goes negative, you need to micromanage cities to get happiness back to discreet levels, and that is somewhat annoying (but not as bad as Civ 3). The AI does stupid things while you are moving units. If you send a unit on a multiple turn move, it will go off a blocked road rather than queing up along the road (kind of reminds me of SMR). (In Civ 5 2 units can't occupy the same hex.) But, combat is more fun as it involves fewer units.
This is the first Civ where at the end of the game I had no city with all buildings built - and I wasn't even close in any city. So, with so much unbuilt, who has time to also spew out army after army, as in prior Civs. Upgrading units became essential, unlike before where I sometimes deactivated old units. Production never got to such a state that military units could be churned out in a turn or 2 or 3. So, if you needed military, you needed to have it on hand already, or at least an older unit and cash to upgrade it. But, you can only upgrade one step at a time, so that warrior will take a number of turns to upgrade to infantry. It's kind of neat to march your units into enemy territory along a 3 unit front. But, juggling hexes takes getting used to, with the 1 unit per hex limit. Culture seems to be more important, as cities use it to expand and the empire uses it to get new civics. Civics work like a whole new tech tree, but instead of choosing what you want before you start accumulating culture points, you instead get to pick what you want after you reach set culture point levels.
Since my PC is closer to the minimim requirements, as opposed to the optimal specs, I am happy that so far the game is playing well. However, I only played on a tiny (tutorial) and small map. I just started a new scenario on the next size up, so I have my fingers crossed. Civ 4 worked well on this 3 year old PC, but it really bogged down on large maps late in the game on the PC I had when Civ 4 first came out.
Installing the game really stunk - taking 30 minutes just to get a steam account and 2 hours to install after that. You can't tell what city hexes are being worked without going into the city and clicking again, which is a throw back to Civ 3. Although individual cities don't get unhappy, if overall happiness goes negative, you need to micromanage cities to get happiness back to discreet levels, and that is somewhat annoying (but not as bad as Civ 3). The AI does stupid things while you are moving units. If you send a unit on a multiple turn move, it will go off a blocked road rather than queing up along the road (kind of reminds me of SMR). (In Civ 5 2 units can't occupy the same hex.) But, combat is more fun as it involves fewer units.
This is the first Civ where at the end of the game I had no city with all buildings built - and I wasn't even close in any city. So, with so much unbuilt, who has time to also spew out army after army, as in prior Civs. Upgrading units became essential, unlike before where I sometimes deactivated old units. Production never got to such a state that military units could be churned out in a turn or 2 or 3. So, if you needed military, you needed to have it on hand already, or at least an older unit and cash to upgrade it. But, you can only upgrade one step at a time, so that warrior will take a number of turns to upgrade to infantry. It's kind of neat to march your units into enemy territory along a 3 unit front. But, juggling hexes takes getting used to, with the 1 unit per hex limit. Culture seems to be more important, as cities use it to expand and the empire uses it to get new civics. Civics work like a whole new tech tree, but instead of choosing what you want before you start accumulating culture points, you instead get to pick what you want after you reach set culture point levels.
Since my PC is closer to the minimim requirements, as opposed to the optimal specs, I am happy that so far the game is playing well. However, I only played on a tiny (tutorial) and small map. I just started a new scenario on the next size up, so I have my fingers crossed. Civ 4 worked well on this 3 year old PC, but it really bogged down on large maps late in the game on the PC I had when Civ 4 first came out.
Quality is Job 1.01
Re: Civ V
So, now I am in my 4th game as India, and their special talent is to have double unhappiness for each city - 4 read hearts per city, but half for total population - or 1/2 red heart per pop rounded down. They want India to have fewer but larger cities. Nice touch. I need to be a sea power in this game, as I'm in North America all by myself and there is a mountain blocking land access to South America. All I have had to fight is barbarians, while the endless wars are raging in Europe. My southern neighbor is weak and friendly. Austrailia had no Civs other than 2 city states, so I sent a 4 ship convoy escorted by 2 Frigates and it was kind of neat, as even ships can't stack, so the units are totally vulnerable to attack and the Frigates are needed to keep nasties away. Since one unit was elephant archers (a special unit for Idia that replaced the chariott, I kept thinking of elephants swimming as seen from under water as my convoy plowed on. Later, I set up a second colony in Austrailia between the two city states and dropped a culture bomb that stole territory and one luxury each from the city states. They promptly went into deep dislike of me, but who cares, they didn't declare war and I got what I needed from them. Now, I don't need to suck up to them to get incense and ivory. In Civ V, you don't need ivory to get the elepehant archers, but ivory still counts as a luxury and you get 5 hearts in the empire for it, as with all other luxuries. If a great artist is expended in or adjacent to a hex that you own, all hexes adjacent to the artist move to your control; however, the losing countries do not take this litely, according to the Civopedia.
One cool thing is the the RR worker Conga line. At least thats how it seems to me when there's a line of workers building a railroad and the music is right. A city connected by RR to the capital gets a 50% production bonus.
At this point, I think that I am beginning to really like Civ V. The military aspect is much more fun than any prior Civ, and there are so many things to figure out, like the new government civ track, decisions on what buildings to build or never build in a city, how each civilization is a bit more different than before from other civilizations, that maybe naval power is more important than it used to...
Yes, there's a lot here in this civ, and I am up to a map size that has 8 civilizations and my old PC is still handling it. And, a patch is on the way. But we all know that in PC games, Quality is Job 1.01, .02, ...
One cool thing is the the RR worker Conga line. At least thats how it seems to me when there's a line of workers building a railroad and the music is right. A city connected by RR to the capital gets a 50% production bonus.
At this point, I think that I am beginning to really like Civ V. The military aspect is much more fun than any prior Civ, and there are so many things to figure out, like the new government civ track, decisions on what buildings to build or never build in a city, how each civilization is a bit more different than before from other civilizations, that maybe naval power is more important than it used to...
Yes, there's a lot here in this civ, and I am up to a map size that has 8 civilizations and my old PC is still handling it. And, a patch is on the way. But we all know that in PC games, Quality is Job 1.01, .02, ...
Quality is Job 1.01
Re: Civ V
Well, I am afraid it will take a while until I get the hang of this version. Too many things are different. Just cant understand why they don't expand on the old game play, make it better looking and throw in a few new things.
Had no installation issues but having to go through Steam just added another layer of useless activity. What is so hard about just downloading a patch from a game developers website whenever it is upgrade time?
In any case I like playing on large maps (with few nationalities) and twice in a row the game froze in the 1930 1940 time frame. Had to reload last saves.
That with having only one unit targeted per hex is a real drawback and leads to much fiddling with the units to get the job done. Particularly when you put a group of workers to work.
The Hex "square" format is fine if there was a way to display the hex outlines better on the normal map. Have not found it yet but it should be there.
After about twenty hours of playing time it is still a disappointment because I am missing too much of the old game.
Had no installation issues but having to go through Steam just added another layer of useless activity. What is so hard about just downloading a patch from a game developers website whenever it is upgrade time?
In any case I like playing on large maps (with few nationalities) and twice in a row the game froze in the 1930 1940 time frame. Had to reload last saves.
That with having only one unit targeted per hex is a real drawback and leads to much fiddling with the units to get the job done. Particularly when you put a group of workers to work.
The Hex "square" format is fine if there was a way to display the hex outlines better on the normal map. Have not found it yet but it should be there.
After about twenty hours of playing time it is still a disappointment because I am missing too much of the old game.
The man who has no imagination has no wings. (Muhammad Ali)
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thegrindre
- Engineer
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- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:33 pm
- Location: Central Arkansas
Re: Civ V
Hi JSS, haven't seen you around in awhile. How you been?
This game does look interesting it's the Steam issue that'll keep me away. I refuse to deal with Steam or anything like it.
I guess my new game ventures are over. Gotta start looking for everybody's last CD release for me to play anymore.
This game does look interesting it's the Steam issue that'll keep me away. I refuse to deal with Steam or anything like it.
I guess my new game ventures are over. Gotta start looking for everybody's last CD release for me to play anymore.
a.k.a. Rick
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
Re: Civ V
On the bottom of the screen and to left of the minimap is where you can toggle resources and the hex outline. However, even with that on, I find it difficult sometimes to determine who owns what. I also have problems seeing what unit is active in some situations.JSS wrote:The Hex "square" format is fine if there was a way to display the hex outlines better on the normal map. Have not found it yet but it should be there.
Yes, it is very different. I hated RT3 until somewhere in the middle of the second campaign scenario. I didn't hate Civ V, but it took a while to get used to it. I just hope that the game does not turn out to be too easy to beat. I tried a UN victory, and that was extremely easy, although it helped that I was Greece and Greece gets along real well with city states. I have just moved up to King level on the largest map size in the Terra scenario, so hopefully: 1. my system can handle the map, and 2. it gets tougher.
http://apolyton.net/forumdisplay.php/350-Civilization-V is a good place to see what's really going on. Winnie's there also, but the Pooh doesn't develop scenarios.
Quality is Job 1.01
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thegrindre
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- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:33 pm
- Location: Central Arkansas
Re: Civ V
Knave, you're always a big help at everything I'm interested in and I appreciate it very much. a.k.a. Rick
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
At my age, 'Happy Hour' is a nap...
Re: Civ V
Thegrindre, there is not a day (unless I am away on holidays) when I am not checking in and seeing what you folks are up to. Usually I visit more than once a day.
The "Dark Side" area is for me presently one of the most entertaining spots to visit. Just keep it coming please.
Here are some of the pictures of the Pilatus Bahn which at 48% grade is the steepest in the world.
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... %20top.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... Tunnel.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... 0Parts.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... ection.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... Bypass.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... bypass.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... unnels.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... ection.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... tation.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... 0Chart.jpg
Have some more pictures but out of space on my web site. Those pictures are all cuts from a movie I made from the trip down.
The "Dark Side" area is for me presently one of the most entertaining spots to visit. Just keep it coming please.
Here are some of the pictures of the Pilatus Bahn which at 48% grade is the steepest in the world.
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... %20top.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... Tunnel.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... 0Parts.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... ection.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... Bypass.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... bypass.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... unnels.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... ection.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... tation.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/RRTJSS/Pictures/ ... 0Chart.jpg
Have some more pictures but out of space on my web site. Those pictures are all cuts from a movie I made from the trip down.
The man who has no imagination has no wings. (Muhammad Ali)