Global Warming believers don't read this

[djf01]

As far as I'm concerned there's just to much falsified information and too much money to be made, as well as power to be had, by those that push the extreme global warming agenda.
When those things come into play I tend to disbelieve their rhetoric.

I think you are dead right with this Hawk, there is a lot of BS written and published about Global Warming.

But IMHO, this is (at least) equally true of anti-global warming proponents. There is clearly a self interested agenda there too. There is power to be had and (at least) as much money to be made from discrediting global warming.

I don't believe a lot of the rhetoric about global warming either. But that's no reason to believe every bit of BS sprouted from the other side.

In fact, whichever side of this debate I find myself, *nothing* gets up my nose more than fanatical advocates weighing in on my side with a whole lot of dribble. Fortunately there isn't much danger of that here though .

[Hawk]

You know the old saying; "There's two sides to every coin".
Well that's not the whole story. If you really think about it there's three sides to a coin. Heads, tails, and the edge (even the government found the edge on the new silver dollar because they printed "In God we Trust" on it).
Well I guess I sit on the edge of the coin. I don't fully believe either side, but I do still believe the earth is a lot more resilient than the Gore's of this world give it credit for. 'Course then they wouldn't have that credit pointed to them, now would they?

[Wolverine@MSU]

The Earth is certainly resiliant, having withstood 4.6 billion years of everything from anoxia to meteor/asteroid impacts. What havn't been quite so resiliant are the creatures that have inhabited the Earth. The dinosaurs probably didn't do much to change the climate, yet they have fallen by the wayside, as have countless other species of plants and animals. I'm not so much worried about the Earth surviving as I am about humanity surviving. Even given the "worst case scenario" proposed by the global warming crowd, I doubt that my life will be in jeopardy for the remainder of my days on Earth. The history of mankind has been one of adaptation to changing environments. I don't believe all the "gloom and doom" stuff either; nor do I believe that nothing is happening to the global climate. As Hawk so astutely points out, the truth is probably somewhere in between, on the edge of the coin. As humans go, we're a pretty smart bunch, and will probably survive whatever comes to pass.

[djf01]

Hawk, thanks for your earlier answer to my question & sorry for not saying so in my last post.

(even the government found the edge on the new silver dollar because they printed "In God we Trust" on it).

You know what they say: put your trust in god and get a signature from everyone else.

[CeeBee]

Politics, schmallitics.... they all have agenda's and dirty money. GWB has the oil money so of course there's no global warming. Gore has the green money so of course there's global warming... Like's been said, the truth is somewhere in between and not always easy to find. I don't like to get into the political or religious discussions because they usually lead to argument and on a larger scale, war but luckily here it seems most everybody has common sense and enough open-mindedness to have a civilized discussion.

[WPandP]

On a forum like this, shouldn't the overall point be...

Trains are much better for the environment than trucks or planes!

Go trains.

[Hawk]

On a forum like this, shouldn't the overall point be...

Trains are much better for the environment than trucks or planes!

Go trains.

Especially the way they're building the engines these days. Not to mention trains can haul a lot more freight for a lot less fuel/pollution.

[Gwizz]

Hawk that was quite a read and very interesting.
I don't know how many qualified and honest climatologists we have in the world or how many would attend a conference to debunk global warming. Normally 5% attendance would be a high number for a conference, IMHO. It would seem 300 is a good representative number for all of the climatologists in the world.

Not too long ago I read that all climatologist believed in global warming.

I'm like you when I hear a lier, it becomes very hard to trust that lier again.
Who was it that received purple hearts for being wounded in action. Then his men later said he had wounded himself and most of what he said was lies.


Why should I believe him about Global Warming being a fact. The only proof from him was that hot air rises. Is he the cause of global warming?

Part of those links is that Obama's wife believes the US is a stink hole that didn't treat them right. Yet over the last two years they made over $500,000.00 per year. How many poor people would that amount support? She said they just didn't get all the opportunities they wanted. And, It took them over 20 years to pay off their school loans. That now they have left their high paying jobs to work for change. Yet the only change they talk about will triple my taxes. etc, etc, etc, etc,

[wsherrick]

Trains are much better for the environment than trucks or planes!
Yes, that's true! AND it would be FAR FAR FAR better if the Country and the Railroad Industry took back their destiny and regained some economic freedom by getting rid of those #@$#! diesels and going back to steam. I'm not joking, I'm serious. The Class One's spent $8.1 BILLION on diesel fuel in 2006. The same BTU cost in COAL being burnt in Locomotives of late 1940's tech TODAY, would cost 62% LESS or approx. $3.00 Billion. New locomotives with Gas Combuster Fireboxes, Lempor Exhausts and many other improvements that are well tested and proven when applied give a steam locomotive (get ready) a 150% increase in thermal efficiency, with lower, yes I said lower emissions than the newest diesel to be spit out of EMD's assembly line and these new engines have double or triple the available horsepower per unit (depending on type) than any of these diesels.

[Hawk]

Go Sherrick Go!

Go Steam Go!

[phred]

two posts for global warming??

[Gandar]

I had to have a look at some of the information on the current steam engines and on one of the sites it was comparing costs diesel versus coal Now here's an interesting thing, it said the cost of converting coal to diesel would be $80 per barrel
If there is so much coal available and its domestic why isn't more of it being converted ? Instead of importing +$100 barrel oil. By the way they were talking also of burning diesel rather than coal for the production of steam.

[wsherrick]

The cost of syn fuels and bio fuels cost far more are far less efficient than burning the fuel the way it comes out of the ground. Their profitability is also relative to the price of oil. The best thing to do with coal as I do at work and at home in my stove is to burn it. I posted a link to a thread concerning this very thing. I was being a little tongue in cheek about the title of the post, "Causing Trouble On The Railfan Site," but the contents of the linked thread is very serious. Go look at it. It is a bunch of railfans arguing about the return of steam power to the rails. A lot of the stats about synfuels are there and about how much cheaper it would be if the Railroad Industry would get rid of diesels and reinstate modern coal burning steam power. You be the judge about which side of the argument held up their point of view the best. Let me know what you think.

[Hawk]

I had to have a look at some of the information on the current steam engines and on one of the sites it was comparing costs diesel versus coal Now here's an interesting thing, it said the cost of converting coal to diesel would be $80 per barrel
If there is so much coal available and its domestic why isn't more of it being converted ? Instead of importing +$100 barrel oil. By the way they were talking also of burning diesel rather than coal for the production of steam.

...and this has what to do with global warming?

[Gandar]

Sorry Hawk, I was following the thread and saw the information and followed a link, and as I was still on that thread I posted my reply there.

[Hawk]

No apology necessary. I was just curious is all.
Sometimes it's easy to post in the wrong thread. That's what I thought you did. I was going to move it if that was the case.
It's certainly not the first time a thread got around here.

It also helps if you quote from the post you're replying to. Kinda' puts two and two together.

[Gwizz]

I listened this morning to a quote of Ted Turner.

I missed some of his comments, But generally he said:

We are going into a period of warming as great as 8 degrees.
Plants will stop growing. Major food shortages and canabolism will take place. We have too many people and we need to greatly reduce the numbers of people.

Now I wonder what he has in mind to do about this?

[Hawk]

I think Ted Turner spent way too much time with Hanoi Jane.

[djf01]

Now I wonder what he has in mind to do about this?

Euthanasia for ex-wives?
Perhaps just banning exercise videos - to stop people living too long.

[Gwizz]

At one point a while back I heard him quoted, as saying that his ideal figure would be to reduce the population by up to 80%.

He has 10 kids by more than one wife. I'm sure ex wifes might be on his list; But, he might not be in favor of reducing the number of possible new wifes.


This morning I listened to a local Conservative radio host saying our times have never been better. The price of gas is not a big problem. The increasing prices of goods and services and food is not a big problem. Truckers won't strike.

He said last month we had an increase in working hours and in wages with fewer people out of work. Which may be true. I've noticed a large increase in the number illegal workers. They may work for less but with more of then employed, the total wages paid out could increase.

It has now become a buyers market for houses as more and more people try to get out from under increasing adjustable interest rates. Yet, low short term interest rates for new homes are still offered. The big builder and investors need protection I guess.
The government's printing presses are turning out truck loads of new money with nothing to back it. It is no wonder the value of our dollar is sinking world wide.

Since Mexico has sent so many of its' citizens North I hear that a new map has been drawn of Mexico and printed on their Tequila bottles. It includes the South Western part of the US.
Hum mm, Is this a sign or hint of the future.

Now something positive. I'm increasing the size of my garden. We should be eating better and healthier this summer. We have stopped buying food from China and Mexico. We stay home more saving on gas. And at least one of my doctors said he doesn't need to see me anymore unless I need to see him.