College degrees not important

[Gwizz]

My wife heard a comment on the radio today that college degrees will no longer be as important in todays changing world. She didn't catch the rest of the story.

This maybe true. Our business elite do not want to pay the high salaries that degrees often command. College may well become specialized learning only for the wealthy. It almost is now.

I was on a state education committee about 16 years ago, where one of our CEO speakers said he didn't want kids to be over taught. If they were over taught he felt they would think they deserved a raise and might even go on strike for one. He wanted only the barest of basics taught and his company would complete the training according to the companies needs. We seem to be in a world today where CEOs are way over paid. Or are we dumbed down so much that we no longer notice

Some follow up comments that same day: People will be tested and trained on the job for the type of work needed by the corporation. It will be expected that employees will stay with the same job as long as that job required that employee's skills since the employee owed his skill to the company training program.

That would be a big change in personal freedom. I don't believe that has happened yet; But, we seem to be moving quickly in that direction. I wonder if either of the candidates are talking about making changes if he becomes our new president.

Naw, never could happen in a country where people pay so much attention to what the politicians are doing behind closed doors and check out every comment to make sure the politicians are telling the truth.

[KevinL]

Yes CEO's are way overpaid, and they get these huge paychecks whether the company turns a profit or goes down in flames.

Public schools are more interested in turning out sheep that the liberal media can control, thanks to liberal teacher's unions.

Students are graduating high school barely learning how to put a sentence together, thanks to instant messaging and texting shortcuts, along with the lack of responsibility from their parents. Colleges are having to teach basic subjects more and more just to get the students caught up with what they should have learned in high school.

[nedfumpkin]

CEOs are way over paid, but that's what comes from public companies with impersonal boards.

Around here a college degree is a 2-3 diploma for stuff like trades, nursing, law and security, etc. A university degree gets initials like BA, Bsc, PhD, etc.

A general BA is about the equivalent in the work world as a high school diploma was in the 1930s. It assumes a basic level of education and intelligence that is necessary as a stepping stone onto other things. The problem is that pretty much anyone can get one of those, and some get them that shouldn't. College sports? Just because a monkey can hammer a keyboard doesn't mean he'll give up bananas.

The problem is that the kids are going into the universities with the idea that if they pay their money, they get a degree. Their parents coddle them while they are there and they have a sense of entitlement. When they graduate with their sheepskins, they become arrogant with the knowledge they supposedly acquired. They are never taught how little they know so they are ignorant in their ignorance. They are....the urban hominid.

As the urban hominid wends their way through the corporate world, their instincts tell them that their camouflage will not work for a long time if they are left on their own. The naturally seek others like them and form into what anthropologists term cliques. These have their own complex social structure that is entirely reliant on conformity and direct consumerism.

Long term survival depends on the urban hominid, or a clique peer rising through the corporate ranks to where they are able to effect some control over the clique, and outsiders as well. Next they will attempt to be rid of outcasts and other cliques. A territorial dispute will take place.

Then they spend the rest of their lives expanding girth while they recycle Chinese plastics into milk jugs until one day it really isn't gas, and they have a heart attack.

It's called government.

[Elite Marksman]

I'm curious, why exactly would a reasonable person (as a CEO they very likely hold at least an MBA (Masters in Business Administration), possibly a doctorate, think that a Bachelor's degree is over-education?

Education cannot do harm, unless the institution's intent is to deny society something that an educated society believes they deserve. And if this is the institution's intent, and educated society will quickly realize this and said institution will likely not remain intact for very long.

[Gwizz]

The love of money seems to be making more decisions in todays world.

[Hawk]

The love of money seems to be making more decisions in todays world.

It certainly has taken priority over pride and responsibility of late.

[ostlandr]

One problem I have seen is kids being told by teachers, guidance counselors, etc. that they MUST get a university degree in order to avoid "working at McDonalds the rest of your life." In order to pay the loans on said university degree, the kids need to get a degree in something that pays well at entry level. "Education" doesn't play a role in the decision- only dollars. This quasi-obsession with the almighty sheepskin has steered an entire generation away from the skilled trades. Hey, auto mechanics, masons, carpenters, etc. make good money. And there's just as much chance of going up the ladder in a trade as in business.

Another problem is that (as nedfumpkin mentioned) our high schools are turning out students with little practical knowledge (but lots of unearned self-esteem). There's no reason every high school graduate shouldn't know at least the basics of economics, finance, etc. Most of them can't even balance a checkbook, let alone calculate profit/loss given fixed costs, unit cost, price and sales numbers.

[Bonneville455]

One problem I have seen is kids being told by teachers, guidance counselors, etc. that they MUST get a university degree in order to avoid "working at McDonalds the rest of your life." In order to pay the loans on said university degree, the kids need to get a degree in something that pays well at entry level. "Education" doesn't play a role in the decision- only dollars. This quasi-obsession with the almighty sheepskin has steered an entire generation away from the skilled trades. Hey, auto mechanics, masons, carpenters, etc. make good money. And there's just as much chance of going up the ladder in a trade as in business.

Another problem is that (as nedfumpkin mentioned) our high schools are turning out students with little practical knowledge (but lots of unearned self-esteem). There's no reason every high school graduate shouldn't know at least the basics of economics, finance, etc. Most of them can't even balance a checkbook, let alone calculate profit/loss given fixed costs, unit cost, price and sales numbers.

If I had it to do over again, I would opt for a trade. Trying to succeed in today’s corporate office environment is pure pain and anguish.

I hail from upstate New York, too. Went to high school in Henrietta - what neck of the woods are you in?

[Gwizz]

I believe it was Carl Marx who stated that the best way to achieve socialism is through the public education of the kids.

[Hawk]

I believe it was Carl Marx who stated that the best way to achieve socialism is through the public education of the kids.

Supposedly from the 'Communist Manifesto' by Frederick Engels and Karl Marx. I have a copy of it on my hard drive but never finished reading it, but I didn't find that kind of statement in what I did read.

Actually Karl Marx died before the manifesto was completed, so Engels finished it. I believe Engels wrote more of it than Marx did, but most of the credit goes to Marx as it was mostly his thoughts.

[ostlandr]

Originally from Western NY (Allegany County) but I'm up here by Albany now. Been through Henrietta a few times.

One problem I have seen is kids being told by teachers, guidance counselors, etc. that they MUST get a university degree in order to avoid "working at McDonalds the rest of your life." In order to pay the loans on said university degree, the kids need to get a degree in something that pays well at entry level. "Education" doesn't play a role in the decision- only dollars. This quasi-obsession with the almighty sheepskin has steered an entire generation away from the skilled trades. Hey, auto mechanics, masons, carpenters, etc. make good money. And there's just as much chance of going up the ladder in a trade as in business.

Another problem is that (as nedfumpkin mentioned) our high schools are turning out students with little practical knowledge (but lots of unearned self-esteem). There's no reason every high school graduate shouldn't know at least the basics of economics, finance, etc. Most of them can't even balance a checkbook, let alone calculate profit/loss given fixed costs, unit cost, price and sales numbers.

If I had it to do over again, I would opt for a trade. Trying to succeed in today’s corporate office environment is pure pain and anguish.

I hail from upstate New York, too. Went to high school in Henrietta - what neck of the woods are you in?

[Penn Minuteman]

Interesting topic here. May I add my 2 cents?

I am no college grad. Got my G.E.D. after 12th grade and walked away from education. Few years later, called back to school and talked to old guidance councelor. He helped me go through a test and meet the criteria to get the school to give me my diploma. In other words, I went back and earned it. I learned from my mistake that no/low education was a bad thing. From that time till now (12 years). I have been working in the commercial and industrial maintenance field (electrical, plumbing, carpentry, HVACR, telecommunications, machine work and landscaping). You need it fixed, I can fix it and fix what caused the problem. Well now you know where I stand. Let me bring up some stuff I have found out about the business world.

I can walk into any commercial or industrial maintenance position and they tell me I don't have any certificates so they cant pay me that much. Most of them offer night schooling paid, then either when you try to take courses in your field they promptly pull the funding for those classes or they demand that I sign a contract stating I will work for 2 years without any pay raises before I can quit. The courses are only $300 each! I am taking them out of my own pocket. Got quite a few now (electrical and HVACR (E.P.A. certification). Now they tell me I am over qualified and they cant hire me or pay me what I am worth!

They don't want me when I am qualified and didn't want to pay me when I wasn't qualified. From everything I have seen while living in America, businesses just want dumb animals. Only intelligent enough to push a button or turn a knob.

I get the impression that the businesses want to dumb us back down so we can be more easily controlled.

The BBC did a report (no not making this up) about 3 or 4 weeks ago. They took the CEO's pay of companies from around the world and compared it to the lowest paid person in that business. Probably a janitor or housekeeper or mail room employee. After doing many companies per country, they posted it on their web sight. Listed that an average Japanese CEO makes 18 times the lowest paid worker. Average Italian and German CEO makes 20 times the lowest paid worker. Average English CEO makes 21 times the lowest paid worker. Average American CEO makes 420 times the lowest paid worker! these are the same CEO's that ship our jobs overseas for a huge bonus.

Well, don't know where this world is heading. But the ride might not be pleasant.

Pennsylvania Minuteman (Bill)

People shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people - T. Jefferson

[Hawk]

I was a commercial/industrial electrician for about 25 years. I always worked for small, non-union companies (I never did have any inerest in joining the I.B.E.W. I'm just not a union kinda' guy )
I made decent money and most of the time had some good company benefits.
About 3 or 4 years ago I started noticing that the construction industry as a whole, started loosing all interest in quality. It finally got so bad that I was being told to hide things from inspectors. That's when I decided to retire from the industry. I haven't looked back since. That was about 2 years ago.

Although I'm not old enough to draw Social Security (I'm 57), I still needed to make money so I learned web site design and am trying to make my living at that, working for myself.
I make a little bit of money at it, not getting rich by any means, but at least I'm in control of the quality now. I also recently set up shop doing web site hosting. Again, I'm not getting rich by any means but my cost for hosting my own 3 sites has dropped a bit and that's really one of the important things to me.

[Penn Minuteman]

One nursing home I passed thru back in the late 90s early 2000s was S.E.U.I.(or was that S.E.I.U.). I had to join the union, then because I put quality into my work they tried to get me fired while I was paying them $33 a month dues. Reason to get me fired was I was making the other's in my department look bad. No kidding my boss and building adminastrator had to defend me from union so I could get my job done right without having to watch my own back. 1st union I ever joined and it will be the last too.

[Hawk]

I've been on union jobs before, as an independent supervisor, and have seen the same thing happen to someone that worked hard and did a good job.

[KevinL]

Unions have outlived their usefulness, but they still seem to think they make a difference. Yeah, the difference they make is a bad one! Just look at the auto industry. Union controlled "American" business is in the toilet, while non-union "foreign" business is thriving. If GM, Ford, and Dodge could dump the unions, they might actually turn a profit.

CEO's are no better. At least the union guys on the floor are actually doing something useful.

And, lastly, I bet if you compared union boss salaries to union worker salaries, you'd find a similar statistic as said by Penn Minuteman's BBC report.

[Penn Minuteman]

And, lastly, I bet if you compared union boss salaries to union worker salaries, you'd find a similar statistic as said by Penn Minuteman's BBC report. (I couldn't comment on this. But I wouldn't surprise me if they did make that much)

Unions are nothing more than a necessary evil when businesses get too greedy. But in the long run, they do screw up the world just as bad.

Your right, I don't trust unions either. Your just hiring a business to protect you from a different business. Unions are just that.

Penn Minuteman

[nedfumpkin]

I consider myself to be one of the biggest anti-union people there is....and I am an effective union rep. The reason I became a union rep was to fight the union from the inside.

The union executive makes really good money compared to the membership. Their priorities are: the union, the union executives, their friends, and then the rest of the membership.

The only difference between the union executive and management are the t-shirts they wear on Labour Day.