Folks - I just got a PM from Phred (I'm sure some of you remember him).
While I won't post all of the PM here, I do want to post some of it as I think it might help others.
Hawk,
I once again find myself absent from the site for reasons beyond my control.
On March 19th, my wife and daughter were killed in a head-on collision. Interstate 65, Kentucky mile marker 61. Three people in the other vehicle were also killed.
With the help on a lot of people, my remaining 3 kids and I are advocating cable barriers on a 14 mile stretch of that highway that has taken 11 lives this year.
We have a web site under construction. I have spoken to 2 newspapers and will be going to the visual media on Wednesday. This wreck made national news, hopefully we can at least make Kentucky news and rattle the politicians. They can spend millions on plans and surveys for casinos, and bridges that go nowhere. Maybe we can get them to squeeze out $180,000 for each mile of barrier.
The web site will be http://www.barriersnow.com and the temporary address for sending us reliable facts, figures and data is barriersnow@comcast.net. I know we have people on here from all walks of life. Maybe someone can help the kids and I by gathering ammo for the fight. If you feel it appropiate you can share this with any or all of the members. I am not asking for sympathy. My family and I feel that someone needs to start something to save lives in the future.
Phred (aka: Dave Lawson)
Maybe some of you can help out with some info for him. If nothing else maybe a short prayer to help him and his family through this disaster.
Topic of Interest
Topic of Interest
Hawk
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AZ Rail Rat
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Re: Topic of Interest
So sorry to hear Phred. Thoughts and mostly prayers are with you.
As for cable barriers, don't make the mistake we did here in Phoenix:
http://www.kpho.com/iteam/14201945/detail.html
http://www.kpho.com/iteam/10912699/detail.html
MAKE SURE all alternative methods have been explored.
As for cable barriers, don't make the mistake we did here in Phoenix:
http://www.kpho.com/iteam/14201945/detail.html
http://www.kpho.com/iteam/10912699/detail.html
MAKE SURE all alternative methods have been explored.
Re: Topic of Interest
Dave, our prays go out to you and your family.
I'll relate a bit of experience I've had with barriers.
Here is Washington state we have cable barriers that have been in the news often after cars and pickups have run through or over them. Some resulted in head on crashes.
Washington state is planing to raise the barriers with another cable or two. They are about 30 to 36 inches high now. So far nothing has been done.
I've alway though a wide ditch with steep soft dirt banks would work even better and cheaper if the center medium was wide. Where I have seen these used the cars just end up in the ditch. I watched a large pickup spin almost 360 degrees on a icy highway. He then went down into the center medium hit the ditch which turned him parallel to the highway without any damage to his truck. It was a small ditch. When a vehicle goes into a ditch it noses down as it hits the opposite back. This causes it to turn into and follow the ditch until it stops.
A cable barrier tends to launch a vehicle into the air without turning it very much.
I had a 6 foot hedge in front of a house I once owned and a car ended up on top of it when a lady hit her gas pedal instead of the brake pedal as she slowed to make a turn. The tow truck did more damage to my hedge when it pulled the car back. Had the lady been going any faster she could have ended up in my front room since the hedge had launched her above the level of my porch.
The state also has those cement Jersey barriers where opposite traffic lanes are close together. It is rare to have a vehicle cross over these barriers. The reason is there is not enough room for a car to change direction very much before hitting them. So the cars just bounce off. Trucks tend to move the cement barriers a couple of feet back out of alignment. But I have not heard of a truck crossing over a Jersey barrier. They also bounce off. These barriers might not work as well if installed in the center of a wide medium. But at 5 to 8 tons apiece
not many cars will out weight them.
Good luck with your efforts to improve highway safety.
I'll relate a bit of experience I've had with barriers.
Here is Washington state we have cable barriers that have been in the news often after cars and pickups have run through or over them. Some resulted in head on crashes.
Washington state is planing to raise the barriers with another cable or two. They are about 30 to 36 inches high now. So far nothing has been done.
I've alway though a wide ditch with steep soft dirt banks would work even better and cheaper if the center medium was wide. Where I have seen these used the cars just end up in the ditch. I watched a large pickup spin almost 360 degrees on a icy highway. He then went down into the center medium hit the ditch which turned him parallel to the highway without any damage to his truck. It was a small ditch. When a vehicle goes into a ditch it noses down as it hits the opposite back. This causes it to turn into and follow the ditch until it stops.
A cable barrier tends to launch a vehicle into the air without turning it very much.
I had a 6 foot hedge in front of a house I once owned and a car ended up on top of it when a lady hit her gas pedal instead of the brake pedal as she slowed to make a turn. The tow truck did more damage to my hedge when it pulled the car back. Had the lady been going any faster she could have ended up in my front room since the hedge had launched her above the level of my porch.
The state also has those cement Jersey barriers where opposite traffic lanes are close together. It is rare to have a vehicle cross over these barriers. The reason is there is not enough room for a car to change direction very much before hitting them. So the cars just bounce off. Trucks tend to move the cement barriers a couple of feet back out of alignment. But I have not heard of a truck crossing over a Jersey barrier. They also bounce off. These barriers might not work as well if installed in the center of a wide medium. But at 5 to 8 tons apiece
not many cars will out weight them.
Good luck with your efforts to improve highway safety.
Re: Topic of Interest
I can't imagine losing that much of my family. My prayers go out to you and your children. Trying to prevent the loss you have experienced for other people is a wonderful goal. My your work bring success and help heal and bring closure.
Never, Never, Never give up. Winston Churchill
Re: Topic of Interest
My 
to all of you.
Rat, I had seen the articles that you linked to. While informative, the pix looked like 3 cable barriers. Louisville has the 4 cable barriers that have prevented over 100 cross-median accidents since their recent installation. I can't find out yet if in fact Az had 3 or 4 cable. The diameter of the cables also makes a big diffenence. One article I was sent says Az used the minimun DOT requirements or specs from 1990. Since prior testing was not done it is kind of a moot point.
Gwizz, The cable barriers in Louisville are 46" high on the interstate and bypasses. I dont know if that is what makes them work so well. I flunked 2 engineering courses in college
. Most of our ditches are steep , but narrow. Cars and trucks tend to hit the opposite side and get launched into the oncoming lanes. Semi's have the tractors imbedded in the ditch, the trailer flips and crushes the tractor, then bounces into the oncoming lanes.
To all,
the fix is probably not simple. I am taking, digesting, and forwarding all info. I am not trying to dispute anyones oppinion, nor do I believe as yet that any opinion is wrong. I have merely tried to toss out what I have learned so far and hope that with all the brains this site has, that we can get something done.
I would wager that every state has a 14 mile stretch of a disasterous highway. Maybe this should go national and not just local. I'm not sure if I have the stamina or emotional stability to go as far as Kentucky.
My kids are committed to this, as am I. The daughter who survived the crash was a twin to the one that didn't. She says if I won't do this , she will. I WILL find a way.
Each and every comment is important, informative , and adds to the arsenal.
Thanks again , gang.
to all of you.Rat, I had seen the articles that you linked to. While informative, the pix looked like 3 cable barriers. Louisville has the 4 cable barriers that have prevented over 100 cross-median accidents since their recent installation. I can't find out yet if in fact Az had 3 or 4 cable. The diameter of the cables also makes a big diffenence. One article I was sent says Az used the minimun DOT requirements or specs from 1990. Since prior testing was not done it is kind of a moot point.
Gwizz, The cable barriers in Louisville are 46" high on the interstate and bypasses. I dont know if that is what makes them work so well. I flunked 2 engineering courses in college
. Most of our ditches are steep , but narrow. Cars and trucks tend to hit the opposite side and get launched into the oncoming lanes. Semi's have the tractors imbedded in the ditch, the trailer flips and crushes the tractor, then bounces into the oncoming lanes. To all,
the fix is probably not simple. I am taking, digesting, and forwarding all info. I am not trying to dispute anyones oppinion, nor do I believe as yet that any opinion is wrong. I have merely tried to toss out what I have learned so far and hope that with all the brains this site has, that we can get something done.
I would wager that every state has a 14 mile stretch of a disasterous highway. Maybe this should go national and not just local. I'm not sure if I have the stamina or emotional stability to go as far as Kentucky.
My kids are committed to this, as am I. The daughter who survived the crash was a twin to the one that didn't. She says if I won't do this , she will. I WILL find a way.
Each and every comment is important, informative , and adds to the arsenal.
Thanks again , gang.
I have been to the top of the mountain, and I fall down every time.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Re: Topic of Interest
You are in our thoughts and I applaud you on your course of action. Good luck and best wishes for success. Your desire to turn your great loss into a constructive course of action shows us all that you are an individual of exceptional character. You have my respect, sir.
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AZ Rail Rat
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Re: Topic of Interest
Phred,
The "If I don't do it, it won't get done" attitude IS the one to take. So many times in so many states, individuals have taken on a cause and made change. A good one here in AZ was Shannon's Law, the one that increased the penalty for idiots who go out in their back yard and shoot guns in the air. It's named for a little girl who was killed by a stray bullet and is the legacy of her parents who pushed it through.
Your journey will be long, bumpy and slow. Just look how long it takes John Walsh to get even the simplest laws passed that anyone in their right mind KNOW should be on the books. Problem is, you're dealing with politicians, and how many of them are "in their right minds" instead of into themselves?
Start simple and work up. FIRST, find out how to form an organization, and make sure it is TAX FREE! This provides an important vehicle you will need, a place to store and track cash, which will be more needed the deeper you get.
Next, maybe you can talk Hawk into making you a website to get people together and talking about the subject. He can also give you advise about a web server and other technical issues if you do not have someone locally. (If your organization is tax free, I think he could claim time spent as a business expense on HIS taxes.)
A website at first provides a forum for family members to just get on and vent and yes, cry together - - - good therapy. The primary purpose is a gathering point for your army needed in the fight.
When you are able, make sure you obtain copies of ALL media (video and stills) that shows the accident. I know that is rough, and for sure it is WAY to close to the event . . . there will never be a good time, but you will need them later. This must be done soon as things like this tend to get "lost in the archives" as even a short time passes. If it is too rough for you to do personally, have a friend you trust take care of it. You also need to find statistics on similar accidents. Politicians EAT up statistics, plus you can manipulate them to your point of view in ways you never even imagined. Stats, though at times cold and lost of the true human element, are your ammunition.
Start making lists of all local Consumer Journalists in your area. Making contacts with local radio, TV and print media is required to win the battle of public opinions when our idiot lawmakers need a nudge. Also make a list of politicians in your area, particularly those who are up for re-election. They foam at the mouth for FREE publicity in election years. You get a couple of them and the Governor in your pocket, you will be on your way.
Finally, get details on what is being proposed to be done, make sure it is adequate and will be done right (unlike our system), and determine a schedule of when (if anything) gets implemented.
Just a few thoughts - - - much easier for me to think than DO.
Good luck.
The "If I don't do it, it won't get done" attitude IS the one to take. So many times in so many states, individuals have taken on a cause and made change. A good one here in AZ was Shannon's Law, the one that increased the penalty for idiots who go out in their back yard and shoot guns in the air. It's named for a little girl who was killed by a stray bullet and is the legacy of her parents who pushed it through.
Your journey will be long, bumpy and slow. Just look how long it takes John Walsh to get even the simplest laws passed that anyone in their right mind KNOW should be on the books. Problem is, you're dealing with politicians, and how many of them are "in their right minds" instead of into themselves?
Start simple and work up. FIRST, find out how to form an organization, and make sure it is TAX FREE! This provides an important vehicle you will need, a place to store and track cash, which will be more needed the deeper you get.
Next, maybe you can talk Hawk into making you a website to get people together and talking about the subject. He can also give you advise about a web server and other technical issues if you do not have someone locally. (If your organization is tax free, I think he could claim time spent as a business expense on HIS taxes.)
A website at first provides a forum for family members to just get on and vent and yes, cry together - - - good therapy. The primary purpose is a gathering point for your army needed in the fight.
When you are able, make sure you obtain copies of ALL media (video and stills) that shows the accident. I know that is rough, and for sure it is WAY to close to the event . . . there will never be a good time, but you will need them later. This must be done soon as things like this tend to get "lost in the archives" as even a short time passes. If it is too rough for you to do personally, have a friend you trust take care of it. You also need to find statistics on similar accidents. Politicians EAT up statistics, plus you can manipulate them to your point of view in ways you never even imagined. Stats, though at times cold and lost of the true human element, are your ammunition.
Start making lists of all local Consumer Journalists in your area. Making contacts with local radio, TV and print media is required to win the battle of public opinions when our idiot lawmakers need a nudge. Also make a list of politicians in your area, particularly those who are up for re-election. They foam at the mouth for FREE publicity in election years. You get a couple of them and the Governor in your pocket, you will be on your way.
Finally, get details on what is being proposed to be done, make sure it is adequate and will be done right (unlike our system), and determine a schedule of when (if anything) gets implemented.
Just a few thoughts - - - much easier for me to think than DO.
Good luck.
Re: Topic of Interest
Phred - I took a look at the page you have up and it looks like you're hand coding instead of using a WYSIWYG editor. Hats off to you on that, if that's the case. I hate WYSIWYG editors.
I can offer a couple of suggestions if you'd like. I've built about 8 web sites so far. You can check my work at this link, if you're interested.
No charge to you unless it can be a write-off for you as the Rat suggested.
I can offer a couple of suggestions if you'd like. I've built about 8 web sites so far. You can check my work at this link, if you're interested.
No charge to you unless it can be a write-off for you as the Rat suggested.
Hawk
Re: Topic of Interest
Rat, regarding your post of April 1:
I had done a lot of things that you suggested before my front page tirade of the 26th. [url]www.thenewsenterprise.com[/url]
They have helped guide me, did an editorial on the 30th, a subsequent front page article on the 3rd of Apr., and funnelled true help my way. A lot of kooks were out there and they weeded them for me.
We, my remaining 3 children and I, now have a banker, an accountant, a TV executive, a lawyer, a newspaper executive, 3 state representives, the county coroner from where it happened, and many many more. All have volunteered to help for 0$ and rewards. Some are even risking their carreers. Our cause has become theirs.
The surviving twin daughter and I opened up to visual version of the media on 2 APR and Barriers Now was the lead story on the 5PM, 6PM, and 7PM TV news. http://www.wave3.com
The newspaper and TV station have made their archives available, and are sending links to others.
The KY governor will never be on my side as I have become a thorn in his side, but he will act. He will have no choice.
Your suggestion to enlist Hawk: see his post after yours.
Thanks my friend for pointing out the many things I hadn't thought about. There is a lot more to this fight than what I thought, but my army is growing.
Hawk,
I knew you would offer even if I didn't ask. I believe it is because of the man you are that you would offer this type of support
.
We initially had a professional (?) 23 yearold web developer. He was the boyfriend of my deceased daughter, and started to turn the site into a eulogy for his girlfriend. We next were approached by a real pro of 48 years of age and 10 years experience. He bailed today with about 80% completed because of a death in his own family. I have been contacted by another party who says he will finish at as moderator and host the web site thru his organization gratis. No monthly fee, nothing. I guess he beat you to the punch. He too prefers hand coding as do I. I'm just too slow and poor to do what he, you, and others have offered.
I've seen your work here and at some of the other sites and wish I had logged in here before accepting the other offer. Thanks
To all: If you want to send some links, data, stats or advice we have a temporary email address for the compilation sorting and screening of it all. 10 people monitor the email address. I personally will respond to any one from this site. barriersnow@comcast.net I'll keep you all apprised of the situation with our cause (appraised?) under this thread. Thanks again for the sympathy and support, advice and links.
I spent over twenty years in the US Army. Looks like I have my own now.
Dave
Hawk's Note: Phred has asked me to post this picture of his wife and daughter.
I had done a lot of things that you suggested before my front page tirade of the 26th. [url]www.thenewsenterprise.com[/url]
They have helped guide me, did an editorial on the 30th, a subsequent front page article on the 3rd of Apr., and funnelled true help my way. A lot of kooks were out there and they weeded them for me.
We, my remaining 3 children and I, now have a banker, an accountant, a TV executive, a lawyer, a newspaper executive, 3 state representives, the county coroner from where it happened, and many many more. All have volunteered to help for 0$ and rewards. Some are even risking their carreers. Our cause has become theirs.
The surviving twin daughter and I opened up to visual version of the media on 2 APR and Barriers Now was the lead story on the 5PM, 6PM, and 7PM TV news. http://www.wave3.com
The newspaper and TV station have made their archives available, and are sending links to others.
The KY governor will never be on my side as I have become a thorn in his side, but he will act. He will have no choice.
Your suggestion to enlist Hawk: see his post after yours.
Thanks my friend for pointing out the many things I hadn't thought about. There is a lot more to this fight than what I thought, but my army is growing.
Hawk,
I knew you would offer even if I didn't ask. I believe it is because of the man you are that you would offer this type of support
.We initially had a professional (?) 23 yearold web developer. He was the boyfriend of my deceased daughter, and started to turn the site into a eulogy for his girlfriend. We next were approached by a real pro of 48 years of age and 10 years experience. He bailed today with about 80% completed because of a death in his own family. I have been contacted by another party who says he will finish at as moderator and host the web site thru his organization gratis. No monthly fee, nothing. I guess he beat you to the punch. He too prefers hand coding as do I. I'm just too slow and poor to do what he, you, and others have offered.
I've seen your work here and at some of the other sites and wish I had logged in here before accepting the other offer. Thanks
To all: If you want to send some links, data, stats or advice we have a temporary email address for the compilation sorting and screening of it all. 10 people monitor the email address. I personally will respond to any one from this site. barriersnow@comcast.net I'll keep you all apprised of the situation with our cause (appraised?) under this thread. Thanks again for the sympathy and support, advice and links.
I spent over twenty years in the US Army. Looks like I have my own now.
Dave
Hawk's Note: Phred has asked me to post this picture of his wife and daughter.
I have been to the top of the mountain, and I fall down every time.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Re: Topic of Interest
We have the website going pretty weel now. And yes, it still looks like nothing more than a forum.
We at least have the attention of a few state officials.
I'll be addressing the senate and house transportation committees soon.
I'd like to make it tomorrow, but this IS an election year. So I'm waiting till the most crucial moment to do so.
Thanks for the advice and support from all of ya'll.
We at least have the attention of a few state officials.
I'll be addressing the senate and house transportation committees soon.
I'd like to make it tomorrow, but this IS an election year. So I'm waiting till the most crucial moment to do so.
Thanks for the advice and support from all of ya'll.
I have been to the top of the mountain, and I fall down every time.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Yet, I continue to climb.
Re: Topic of Interest
I'm sorry that I haven't kept all of you up to date. Please celebrate with my kids and me:
------------------------------------------------------------
July 02, 2008
WBKO television
Bowling Green, Kentucky
Governor Beshear Announces Plan to Install Cable Barriers on Parts of I-65
Posted: 7:27 PM Jul 2, 2008
Last Updated: 8:18 PM Jul 2, 2008
Reporter: Forrest Sanders
Email Address: forrest.sanders@wkbo.com
The family of a mother and daughter killed in an I-65 collision in March joined Governor Steve Beshear today for a special announcement. The announcement was held just yards away from the Hart County location where the I-65 accident took place.
It was March 19 when a truck hydroplaned, crossed the median of I-65, and hit a van head on.
The accident left five dead, including 51-year-old Myra Lawson and her 22-year-old daughter, Cassandra. Roughly three months later, the victims' family is making a big difference.
"Today I'm announcing a 10.8 million dollar project that will lead to greater safety on two busy highways," Governor Steve Beshear announced in front of a large gathering.
What the project involves is the installation of cable barriers on 34 miles of I-65, covering Hart, Barren, Hardin, and Bullitt counties. This sort of attention is due partially to the Lawson family's website, http://www.barriersnow.com.
"It's helped get people information, like how to contact senators and representatives and how to contact the governor," explains Dave Lawson, a man who lost both his wife and daughter to the I-65 collision.
The Lawsons always had a goal.
"To help save the lives of other potential crash victims and their families that have suffered the same ordeal," says Jennifer Lawson, who lost both her mother and sister to the collision.
This level of response has left them with mixed emotions.
"A little embarrassed, self conscious, and elated," says Dave. "Elated that there's that many people that we've made that big a noise or an impact."
"Now we can get the rest of the Kentucky highways safe and potentially help other states," Jennifer adds.
"I was told in the beginning, somebody's gotta do it," Dave says. "Somebody's gotta be the face. They didn't pick the best face, but I was willing to do that. It's helped me get through my grief, actually."
"It's wonderful to know other lives can be saved and that the highway will be safer," says Jolene Walker, who lost her sister and mother to the I-65 collision. "We can keep it from happening to somebody else."
In addition to those thirty miles of cable barriers on I-65, Beshear says a ten mile stretch of the Gene Snyder Freeway in Jefferson County will also gain cable barriers.
---------------------------------------
We thank all of you for your support in the begining.
Phred
------------------------------------------------------------
July 02, 2008
WBKO television
Bowling Green, Kentucky
Governor Beshear Announces Plan to Install Cable Barriers on Parts of I-65
Posted: 7:27 PM Jul 2, 2008
Last Updated: 8:18 PM Jul 2, 2008
Reporter: Forrest Sanders
Email Address: forrest.sanders@wkbo.com
The family of a mother and daughter killed in an I-65 collision in March joined Governor Steve Beshear today for a special announcement. The announcement was held just yards away from the Hart County location where the I-65 accident took place.
It was March 19 when a truck hydroplaned, crossed the median of I-65, and hit a van head on.
The accident left five dead, including 51-year-old Myra Lawson and her 22-year-old daughter, Cassandra. Roughly three months later, the victims' family is making a big difference.
"Today I'm announcing a 10.8 million dollar project that will lead to greater safety on two busy highways," Governor Steve Beshear announced in front of a large gathering.
What the project involves is the installation of cable barriers on 34 miles of I-65, covering Hart, Barren, Hardin, and Bullitt counties. This sort of attention is due partially to the Lawson family's website, http://www.barriersnow.com.
"It's helped get people information, like how to contact senators and representatives and how to contact the governor," explains Dave Lawson, a man who lost both his wife and daughter to the I-65 collision.
The Lawsons always had a goal.
"To help save the lives of other potential crash victims and their families that have suffered the same ordeal," says Jennifer Lawson, who lost both her mother and sister to the collision.
This level of response has left them with mixed emotions.
"A little embarrassed, self conscious, and elated," says Dave. "Elated that there's that many people that we've made that big a noise or an impact."
"Now we can get the rest of the Kentucky highways safe and potentially help other states," Jennifer adds.
"I was told in the beginning, somebody's gotta do it," Dave says. "Somebody's gotta be the face. They didn't pick the best face, but I was willing to do that. It's helped me get through my grief, actually."
"It's wonderful to know other lives can be saved and that the highway will be safer," says Jolene Walker, who lost her sister and mother to the I-65 collision. "We can keep it from happening to somebody else."
In addition to those thirty miles of cable barriers on I-65, Beshear says a ten mile stretch of the Gene Snyder Freeway in Jefferson County will also gain cable barriers.
---------------------------------------
We thank all of you for your support in the begining.
Phred
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Grandma Ruth
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Re: Topic of Interest
That's wonderful, Dave. Well done! 
"I will not take 'but' for an answer" - Langston Hughes
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proudcanadian
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Re: Topic of Interest
Congratulations! Just goes to show that you really can do anything if you try hard enough. Absolutely fantastic!
Just goes to show that you really can do anything if you try hard enough. Absolutely fantastic!I don't drive a dogsled to work, I don't live in an igloo, and we're the SECOND LARGEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!!!