Oil
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RayofSunshine
- CEO
- Posts: 1288
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:04 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Oil
We are having an enviornmental problem with the process of trying to obtain oil. There are supplies of shale which could produce the oil extraction for a couple hundred years. The problem is that during the extraction, a chemical is released, which is getting into our drinking waters. At present there isn't any report of whether the chemical is going into the aquafiers or just into the more surfaced wells. Catch 22.
Re: Oil
The issue, I guess, Ray.. is that we still depend on Oil... the rest are details.
In perspective:
- Lybia is in civil war because how rich Khadafi got... selling Oil
- Darfur was fought over for so long, with thousands of dead during rebel raids, raped or simply starved to death... because of its Oil reserves
- Women in Saudi Arabia are treated "middle ages way", but it's ok... because of Oil demand
- Iraq got itself divided between being ruled by a despotic mad man or invaded by a foreign country with little knowledge or respect for its ways... because it has Oil
- millions of animals died during Oil Spills (Mexico Gulf, Galicia (Spain), exxo valdez, etc, etc)... because Oil is moved around daily in amazing amounts
- the Niger delta is poisoned for another 200 years, and damaged oil-ducts still drip daily, because of Oil demand
- Russia is the world's capital of oligarchs and mafias, resulting in thousands of crime-related deaths yearly, for the amount of money still made to this day out of... its Oils resources (but not only)
- Indonesia almost decimated the small population of East Timor (until the UN effectively landed and forced the massacre to stop)... because of the off-shore Oil reserves
- Chavez funds an inefficient government, maintaining a quasi-totalitarian regime in South America.. because it is rich in Oil
- Just like in Venezuela, Iran's regime is still in power funding its mainstay simply because the country is... rich in Oil
.. etc
.. etc
All of this is already on the back of my mind when I pick my car keys in the lobby or when I purchase another plastic-wrapped product. I think I can squeeze some space for your water-poisoning problem. But still, you (and me) are on the winning side of it.
B
In perspective:
- Lybia is in civil war because how rich Khadafi got... selling Oil
- Darfur was fought over for so long, with thousands of dead during rebel raids, raped or simply starved to death... because of its Oil reserves
- Women in Saudi Arabia are treated "middle ages way", but it's ok... because of Oil demand
- Iraq got itself divided between being ruled by a despotic mad man or invaded by a foreign country with little knowledge or respect for its ways... because it has Oil
- millions of animals died during Oil Spills (Mexico Gulf, Galicia (Spain), exxo valdez, etc, etc)... because Oil is moved around daily in amazing amounts
- the Niger delta is poisoned for another 200 years, and damaged oil-ducts still drip daily, because of Oil demand
- Russia is the world's capital of oligarchs and mafias, resulting in thousands of crime-related deaths yearly, for the amount of money still made to this day out of... its Oils resources (but not only)
- Indonesia almost decimated the small population of East Timor (until the UN effectively landed and forced the massacre to stop)... because of the off-shore Oil reserves
- Chavez funds an inefficient government, maintaining a quasi-totalitarian regime in South America.. because it is rich in Oil
- Just like in Venezuela, Iran's regime is still in power funding its mainstay simply because the country is... rich in Oil
.. etc
.. etc
All of this is already on the back of my mind when I pick my car keys in the lobby or when I purchase another plastic-wrapped product. I think I can squeeze some space for your water-poisoning problem. But still, you (and me) are on the winning side of it.
B
Re: Oil
'Till we get a solution to shake off Petroleum addictions, sticky black and flammable liquid will still be a source to our problems.
Despite automotive industry best effort to replace petroleum. it doesn't mean that we will cease to 'feed on oil'. For now. automobile industry is now 'transitioning' from light petroleum distillate into another fossil fuel. the Natural Gas.
and it comes from the very same place where oil comes from. the oil derrick. Yes. Natural Gas is NOT a distillate of crude oil but it is usually found in the same place.
Another solution is simply exploits another source of hydrocarbon. agroindustry. it is a hard equation for each 'food-growing' nation how to allocate a farmland to grow food, hwo to allocate a land to grow hydrocarbon feedstocks to make vehicle fuel, and how to allocate land to grow 'un-edible' raw materials for 'un-edible' industries (let's say... to grow Para Rubbers and harvest white liquids and feeds tire factory (and more!), to grow Eucalyptii to feed both medicine factory and papermills, to grow cotton to feed textile mills and subsequently, Runway. ETC..) while automotive industry focus on a new fuel/engine/propulsion systems, Petroleum still provides feedstocks to so many industry, and including agriculture. I'm saying that Petroleum is NOT just a fuel, but petroleum distillates are feedstocks to chemical plants!!! (RT3 doesn't express this correctly. mew!) and chem plants provides raw materials to arrays of industries worldwide. A plantation growing 'energy' still needs different chemicals so the sufficient (and profitable numbers of) harvested products can be achieved), supposed that you use Manuer or Higa's EM fermented weeds instead of chem fertilizers, you may need both Herbicides (to kill leeching grasses and unwanted weeds, one might say it is possible to eliminate such weeds without using Herbicides but it is either complicating or costly) and Pesticides (an array of them! one poison works with one type of pest but fails to kill another, again one might argue that another non-chem efffort is possible but whether does it (really, or percieved as) economical?), supposed that you can successfully avoide the use of those cides chems. you may need to apply 'medicines' since plants can fell ill for some reasons. all of those chemicals a plantation needs are derivatives of Oil. and don't forget one word. JUST ONEWORD!.....
Plastics!
For now the best effort is to 'phase out' petroleum fuel. but for how long will such process completed. when will the transition completes and vehicles can move by its own engine without messing with petroleum products?
for mankind of our days to Shake off Oil is much harder than our parents to free themselves from coal. it needs
1. A radical form of powering engine to becomes commercially feasible. or at least, a better energy source.
2. A 'smart, strong, stable, powerful, and yet... transparent' government. for the USA (too bad i'm not american :P ) the new President (or his policy) and the Congress should stand up against lobbyism.
3. A new genertion of Robber Barons! in 19th century, Railroads quickly eliminates stagecoaches, some maritime freighters, and Erie canals. in 20th Century, Oil Industry, Automobiles and Aviation ends Railroad monopoly (and coal industry!). all is made possible by Robber Barony. and in the 21st century. the new generation of Barons should liberate mankind from Oil addictions.
Despite automotive industry best effort to replace petroleum. it doesn't mean that we will cease to 'feed on oil'. For now. automobile industry is now 'transitioning' from light petroleum distillate into another fossil fuel. the Natural Gas.
and it comes from the very same place where oil comes from. the oil derrick. Yes. Natural Gas is NOT a distillate of crude oil but it is usually found in the same place.
Another solution is simply exploits another source of hydrocarbon. agroindustry. it is a hard equation for each 'food-growing' nation how to allocate a farmland to grow food, hwo to allocate a land to grow hydrocarbon feedstocks to make vehicle fuel, and how to allocate land to grow 'un-edible' raw materials for 'un-edible' industries (let's say... to grow Para Rubbers and harvest white liquids and feeds tire factory (and more!), to grow Eucalyptii to feed both medicine factory and papermills, to grow cotton to feed textile mills and subsequently, Runway. ETC..) while automotive industry focus on a new fuel/engine/propulsion systems, Petroleum still provides feedstocks to so many industry, and including agriculture. I'm saying that Petroleum is NOT just a fuel, but petroleum distillates are feedstocks to chemical plants!!! (RT3 doesn't express this correctly. mew!) and chem plants provides raw materials to arrays of industries worldwide. A plantation growing 'energy' still needs different chemicals so the sufficient (and profitable numbers of) harvested products can be achieved), supposed that you use Manuer or Higa's EM fermented weeds instead of chem fertilizers, you may need both Herbicides (to kill leeching grasses and unwanted weeds, one might say it is possible to eliminate such weeds without using Herbicides but it is either complicating or costly) and Pesticides (an array of them! one poison works with one type of pest but fails to kill another, again one might argue that another non-chem efffort is possible but whether does it (really, or percieved as) economical?), supposed that you can successfully avoide the use of those cides chems. you may need to apply 'medicines' since plants can fell ill for some reasons. all of those chemicals a plantation needs are derivatives of Oil. and don't forget one word. JUST ONEWORD!.....
Plastics!
For now the best effort is to 'phase out' petroleum fuel. but for how long will such process completed. when will the transition completes and vehicles can move by its own engine without messing with petroleum products?
for mankind of our days to Shake off Oil is much harder than our parents to free themselves from coal. it needs
1. A radical form of powering engine to becomes commercially feasible. or at least, a better energy source.
2. A 'smart, strong, stable, powerful, and yet... transparent' government. for the USA (too bad i'm not american :P ) the new President (or his policy) and the Congress should stand up against lobbyism.
3. A new genertion of Robber Barons! in 19th century, Railroads quickly eliminates stagecoaches, some maritime freighters, and Erie canals. in 20th Century, Oil Industry, Automobiles and Aviation ends Railroad monopoly (and coal industry!). all is made possible by Robber Barony. and in the 21st century. the new generation of Barons should liberate mankind from Oil addictions.
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nedfumpkin
- CEO
- Posts: 2163
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:16 pm
- Location: Hamilton - Canada
Re: Oil
Profit.
It all comes down to that word in the most general definition you can imagine. A common mistunderstanding is that a corporation is a person. In some legals senses in some countries, it may be accpeted as such, but corporations are completely amoral. Only the people who run them have morals, corporations have by-laws.
A corporation exists for the sole purpose of earning dividends for its shareholders. Everything else is for that end.
Oil is profitable and that is why we are reliant on it. When it is no longer profitable the corporate world will move on to something else, just like it always has. We must remember that the oil industry is still less than 100 years old. Before that is was furs, tobacco, spices, whatever was most profitable at the time.
I admit to being a socialist, which is pretty much the same as communism, satan worship, etc to some people, but I consider that I dislike all people equally, so it is the system that works best for not liking humans. :)
I'm always surprised at how capitalists want capitalism when it benefits them, but rage against the machine when it benefits the 1%...how many Occupiers want socialism really? They just want a bigger piece of the pie.
Only 50% of a barrel of crude oil is converted to gasoline, the rest ends up as lubricants, plastics or other products. About 10 years ago it costs about $4 to refine a barrel of light Saudi cruse, and about $13 to refine a barrel of Alberta tar sands. That same barrel is selling for $65->$100 based on the principle of pricing to whatever the market can bear (what people will pay)
Countries that nationalize their oil get invaded, overthrown, demonized, anything to promote privatization of their oil so that a segmant of the population can get disgustingly rich. That is pure capitalism and we are at the dirty end of that stick.
I believe energy prices should be tied to cost of production, but not enough people make enough money from that system. Canada exports 1 million barrels of oil a day. Canada imports 1 million barrels of oil a day. Sounds mighty stupid until you realize that the oil is subject to a 5% tax off the after other taxes price, so even at $60 dollars per barrel (60 million dollars) at 5 percent, that is 3 million per day, or just over 100 million per year. Why would a government want to change that scheme if people are willing to pay for it.
Part of the problem is that the freedoms we demand allow us the freedom to screw up. Corporations will only ever consider what is best for them. This is why hemp was outlawed. It produces plastics, it produces pulp, food, fuel....and it is one of the cheapest plants to grow...i.e. insufficent profit.
Same for the cure for cancer. If you don't already know, the cure for cancer has been discovered using a drug for metabolic disorders that has been proven to reduce lung cancer tumours by 70%. The problem is that the drug is from the 50s so there is not patent protection, ergo nobody wants to fund studies for something that won't be profitable. Big Pharma is more interested in researching and producing maintanance medications because they are more profitable.
As long as society is happy with their fast food, 350 channels of the same shows, and cheap beer, they won't rise up and fight the oppressor. The oil companies despise the railroads. They would much rather congest highways with transport trucks than allow proper rail networks to exist. There is nowhere to lay proper track because we have too many roads. Rail traffic can't move faster because of lack of infrastructure.
So basically we are scr*wed. As long as oil companies are making millions off oil, they will do fracking, and anything else they can to make us remain dependant on oil. There is evidence that it isn't as limited a supply as believed, and that oil wells once thought depleted have begun producing after decades of dormancy. Oil companies will always create false shortages to maintain higher prices.
If we were wiser stewards of the earth, we wouldn't have problems, but that won't happen because we are too greedy as a species.
It all comes down to that word in the most general definition you can imagine. A common mistunderstanding is that a corporation is a person. In some legals senses in some countries, it may be accpeted as such, but corporations are completely amoral. Only the people who run them have morals, corporations have by-laws.
A corporation exists for the sole purpose of earning dividends for its shareholders. Everything else is for that end.
Oil is profitable and that is why we are reliant on it. When it is no longer profitable the corporate world will move on to something else, just like it always has. We must remember that the oil industry is still less than 100 years old. Before that is was furs, tobacco, spices, whatever was most profitable at the time.
I admit to being a socialist, which is pretty much the same as communism, satan worship, etc to some people, but I consider that I dislike all people equally, so it is the system that works best for not liking humans. :)
I'm always surprised at how capitalists want capitalism when it benefits them, but rage against the machine when it benefits the 1%...how many Occupiers want socialism really? They just want a bigger piece of the pie.
Only 50% of a barrel of crude oil is converted to gasoline, the rest ends up as lubricants, plastics or other products. About 10 years ago it costs about $4 to refine a barrel of light Saudi cruse, and about $13 to refine a barrel of Alberta tar sands. That same barrel is selling for $65->$100 based on the principle of pricing to whatever the market can bear (what people will pay)
Countries that nationalize their oil get invaded, overthrown, demonized, anything to promote privatization of their oil so that a segmant of the population can get disgustingly rich. That is pure capitalism and we are at the dirty end of that stick.
I believe energy prices should be tied to cost of production, but not enough people make enough money from that system. Canada exports 1 million barrels of oil a day. Canada imports 1 million barrels of oil a day. Sounds mighty stupid until you realize that the oil is subject to a 5% tax off the after other taxes price, so even at $60 dollars per barrel (60 million dollars) at 5 percent, that is 3 million per day, or just over 100 million per year. Why would a government want to change that scheme if people are willing to pay for it.
Part of the problem is that the freedoms we demand allow us the freedom to screw up. Corporations will only ever consider what is best for them. This is why hemp was outlawed. It produces plastics, it produces pulp, food, fuel....and it is one of the cheapest plants to grow...i.e. insufficent profit.
Same for the cure for cancer. If you don't already know, the cure for cancer has been discovered using a drug for metabolic disorders that has been proven to reduce lung cancer tumours by 70%. The problem is that the drug is from the 50s so there is not patent protection, ergo nobody wants to fund studies for something that won't be profitable. Big Pharma is more interested in researching and producing maintanance medications because they are more profitable.
As long as society is happy with their fast food, 350 channels of the same shows, and cheap beer, they won't rise up and fight the oppressor. The oil companies despise the railroads. They would much rather congest highways with transport trucks than allow proper rail networks to exist. There is nowhere to lay proper track because we have too many roads. Rail traffic can't move faster because of lack of infrastructure.
So basically we are scr*wed. As long as oil companies are making millions off oil, they will do fracking, and anything else they can to make us remain dependant on oil. There is evidence that it isn't as limited a supply as believed, and that oil wells once thought depleted have begun producing after decades of dormancy. Oil companies will always create false shortages to maintain higher prices.
If we were wiser stewards of the earth, we wouldn't have problems, but that won't happen because we are too greedy as a species.
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Wolverine@MSU
- CEO
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:14 pm
- Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Oil
Why not Hawk? As long as the discussion is civil, without name-calling or false accusations, and other such inflammatory rhetoric, I see no reason we can't express "political" views. Of course it's your site, and I can see that you have to draw the line somewhere about acceptable expression on your site.Hawk wrote:Let's not get too political in this discussion folks.
Re: Oil
If the oil shortage is 'faux'. why there are so many many automotive corporations doing an extensive research to end its dependency and Toyota began seriously marketed its Hybrid var, the Prius. and Honda responsed by launching Hybrio. using Jazz's hull?
If the shortage is made up why do a group of Engineering student in the US bought a rusted ATSF 4-6-2 Pacific to rebuild it as a very very fast steamer that will beat Mallard?
http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-f ... ss-transit
If the oil shortage is actually 'controlled' by Oil businesses why DLM President purposes North American Class I Railroad to switch back to 'Modern Steam'? (and cite the economical benefit that will be in RR favor) if Marketing is not the only reason, why?
If the shortage is made up why do a group of Engineering student in the US bought a rusted ATSF 4-6-2 Pacific to rebuild it as a very very fast steamer that will beat Mallard?
http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-f ... ss-transit
If the oil shortage is actually 'controlled' by Oil businesses why DLM President purposes North American Class I Railroad to switch back to 'Modern Steam'? (and cite the economical benefit that will be in RR favor) if Marketing is not the only reason, why?
Re: Oil
^ Environmentalism is one thing, but Oil depletion rate is real.
- Dubai is preparing for post-petroleum economy. if not why The Sheik pours billion bucks into the sea and creates a fern-shaped sand island?
- Brazil successfully substitute all imported distillate gasoline with alchohol based light fuel. all gasoline cars are now run on that domestic fuel. Also Thailand is working on similar project. now we're reaching the stage of E20, a combustible solution of 20% Tapioca ethanol and 80% Distilate gasoline.
- In "The End of Steam" William Sherrick (Where's he now? I need Age of Steam 6 working around with more Modern Steam) also viewed the oil price trend as the depletion rate is real.
- Dubai is preparing for post-petroleum economy. if not why The Sheik pours billion bucks into the sea and creates a fern-shaped sand island?
- Brazil successfully substitute all imported distillate gasoline with alchohol based light fuel. all gasoline cars are now run on that domestic fuel. Also Thailand is working on similar project. now we're reaching the stage of E20, a combustible solution of 20% Tapioca ethanol and 80% Distilate gasoline.
- In "The End of Steam" William Sherrick (Where's he now? I need Age of Steam 6 working around with more Modern Steam) also viewed the oil price trend as the depletion rate is real.