Happy Camper

[Gwizz]

I voted yesterday, expecting about half if my choices to not bear fruit.

Was I surprized.

The 157 billion transportation tax, which I could not vote on, since I live where people tend to vote down high taxes, was voted down. I would have still had to pay the increased taxes if the transportation tax had passed.
Two years ago we got heavy rail over the no votes of the people.
Now with light rail building from the airport through Seattle to the University of Washington, is already half done. 90 % of this record tax would have helped fund light rail mostly to help it expand.

The state Auditor wrote that Seattle wants light rail for the worlds fair coming in a few years. It did not matter that the two rail lines mostly parallel each other and that the heavy rail is a faster system. He also said that the transportation people or the people who control them, want to get people out of their cars, off the freeways. Total rail passengers hauled by both lines when light rail is completed will not come close to equaling our projected growth rate of cars on the freeway over the next few years. People like their cars and the 10 to 15 years of bottle necks on the freeways is irritating. I believe some bottle necks were designed to be bottle necks IMHO, like a 10 lane freeway turning into a 4 lane freeway under the convention center.

All tax bills also went down in flames.

I guess the people of the Seattle area didn't want to become the highest taxed people in the nation.

[proudcanadian]

I heard all about these tax bills. I have satellite TV, and my West feed for Fox and other stations comes out of Seattle. I saw advertisements to reject these bills. All I can say is good for the people of Seattle :D (or was it all of Washington state?)

[Gwizz]

It was for the Seattle area about a 100 mile corridor along I-5 except for those people they felt would vote against it and they didn't get to vote. Since I shop in areas where the people were allowed to vote, I would have paid the taxes, except for the car tags part. Spending money is always an emergency so doesn't have to be made public. We also voted to stop this practice and it also passed.

It is interesting that today the governor said they have a short fall of 2 Billion dollars. Seems they were dipping into the funds for other things to build light rail. I would guess they expected to pass the transportation tax. Their ads contained one lie after another. Each time they were caught in a lie, they just created a new lie and continued on.

Hummm, where were the homeless voters that could not be found after the last election, who had a home address at the elections dept; or the bundles of loss votes that turned up to help this governor change the results of the last election; or the long time dead voters that had nothing to say but voted for this governer at the last election.

[Gwizz]

Yesterday our State of Washington "Surprise" Court made a decision that during an election a while back the people of the state had been miss guided, when they voted to limit any property tax increase to no more than 1% a year.

The court said if the people had not been misguided they would have voted for up to a 20% increase in their property taxes each year. Therefore the peoples vote is reversed by the court.

Gwizz I must have been misguided. I must really like to be taxed 20% more each year.

[Hawk]

Nothing like your vote counting.

[Elite Marksman]

Sounds almost like Jersey a few years ago. There is a law that says you can't borrow money to balance the budget, makes sense, right?

NJ Supreme Court allowed the state to borrow a few hundered million a few years ago to do just that, after allowing a replacement of one of the senate nominees after the deadline had passed...

Gotta love politics...

[Gwizz]

Today gave me a smile. Some taxing districts had sued because the tax payers voting in that law 4 year ago.

The supreme courts decision coming in an election year is causing some people to do damage control. It seems one of the judges is retiring. It also seems she was responsiable for the decision, she got two democratic women judges to side with her. Two new judges were hand picked temps they also sided with her. This gave the 5 to 4 decision. I'm not sure who hand picked them. Nor do I know if the temps are women or men.

Now the two women judges may get voted out of office. The retiring judge doesn't care since whe is retiring anyway. The names of the two temp. judges have been put on a list to watch just to make sure they are never used again.

The Democrate governer fearful of her station, has asked the 161 taxing districts to not use the newly created tax law. The tax accesser is also recommending that the new tax law not be used. But he said it is quite possible some districts will use it. There is talk about reconvening the state congress just to fix this problem before election time.

Sounds like someone had a bone to pick and picked it.
But maybe it was a smart move. There is a good chance we can clean house with this election.

This coming election may turn out to be better than I expected.

[wsherrick]

I know this sounds radical, but it is almost time to get the torches and pitchforks out. These arrogant public officials forget who they are working for and the general public has surrendered the responsibility they have to control these power hungery monsters for the most part. I guess most people are too busy to realize or care that they are being sold down the river. At least it seems some people in your area are upset enough to take action.

[Hawk]

I don't think this country has reached the bottom yet, and it would take that before a revolution can be inspired.
Although I will admit, we're not far from the bottom.

[proudcanadian]

I'm afraid you're right Hawk. Looking from here North of the border things are getting pretty scary. :?

[WPandP]

Are any of you guys on board with the "FairTax" proposal? It would repeal income taxation and replace it with a national sales tax, accompanied by a "prebate" to meet the minimum level of living expenses such that it still weighs heavier on the wealthier citizens (i.e. those that SPEND more, not those that EARN more). The unadulterated common sense of this proposal is staggering, and together with the actual viability of making income tax obsolete, the issue actually has some good momentum.

The reason I bring it up is because you can't talk about it without getting into a person's true political core values, and it seems like one issue which actually gets Joe Public to really Debate. Naturally, the objections to it come in the form of sound bytes; they have to, because they don't hold up under any level of scrutiny. Ours is a sound byte culture. I wish we had voters that Think, but as a republic we ought to be able to trust that we at least have Congresspersons that Think. However, politics and political commentary being what they are, we tend to elect sound-byte figureheads too.

Anyways, I think that urging our Congressmen to actually consider and debate FairTax is a good way to reclaim a little bit of our power, and if we can get it passed, we can reclaim a bit of our nation as well. Stop discriminating by class, race, gender, marital status! Stop penalizing entrepenuers! Start collecting from the uber-rich! Give USA-based companies a chance to compete with the outsource and imigrant-flood nations! Get government out of my way and let me earn my keep!

[wsherrick]

Well said Spoken like a true American, I agree whole-heartedly. :D

[Hawk]

I've been behind the Fair Tax ever since I heard about it a couple of years ago.
The great thing about it is the government would actually get more money because foreign tourists would also being paying the tax.
It would also help convince business to come back to this country instead of setting up housekeeping over seas.
There is so much good about the Fair Tax that it's, dare I say, impossible to argue against with any facts.
The only down side is the loss of power for the government, and that's what-I fear-is going to keep it under the desk instead of being a reality.

[Gwizz]

I rewrote the following: Sorry it was not worded clearly on the first draft.

The problems I see with implimenting a fair tax are these:

#1 Our present system depends upon growth. Since the government tends to spend more than it collects in taxes, and relies on taxes from future growth to always pick up the overage. For reasons listed below it may not be possible to maintain this necessary growth.

For a fair tax to work, the country would have to move away from the well intrenched liberalism and require that nearly everyone put forth an affort to earn a living so they can pay their own way and a fair tax. (Change from takers to producers, with some exceptions) We have reached the point That more than 50% of the people depend upon taxes for their pay or upkeep. It is not really 50% if the bite that the wealthy One World Goverment people take out of the tax dollar was not included.

#2 Plans in place: #1 The US (Bush) has signed an agreement with Canada and Mexico to basicly make the 3 countries into one, at least where open borders and free trade are concerned. The US dollar has been strong for a long time but has been guided downward in value to make this plan and others work. Even with the economy as robust and huge as it is now, our growth rate must take a major hit unless taxes are increased a great deal. A falling economy is like a margin call, the more you pay on the debt the deeper you go in debt. I believe the scale has tipped with more tax dollars going out and less coming in. Our housing boom, now falling apart, is a good example. With a down turn in the ecomony how will the people pay this housing debt. If they can't who will benefit from this? (If not the wealthy)

Plan #2 Our industrial base has been deflated and to a great extent moved out of the country. Even the super size hiway being built by Spain from mexico City to Canada with US tax dollars is receiving resistance from Calif. New Mexico, and Texas as being way too expensive and a mis-direction of tax dollars.

Plan #3 Everytime the stock market is minipulated, greatly over sold when high at times the average person can't trade, then allowed to tank, the very wealthy just took more money out of the North American market. Even BG is now heavy into gold and silver. The fat cats have been ratcheting up gas prices to record highs to increase their purchasing power for the day (The preceived outcome) when the ecomony drops to a dime on the dollar or lower. Then they will buy everything in sight to magnify their wealth. We are in another age of the tycoons, only these are world class Tycoon that plan on owning it all.

I believe a Fair Tax would be a great direction and benefit for the average person; but not for the very wealthy who are in control and will not let it happen. It is not benefical to their plans.

I would love to see a Fair tax or even a flat tax. But short of a revolution and that is not likely, I don't think it will happen.

[WPandP]

The one valid argument I have heard voiced against FairTax is that it would create an underground economy, as people find ways to avoid paying it. I think this is a valid objection, considering the way the underground economy of the drug culture works (my job is in a poor neighborhood, and I am Secretary for our Business Association, so I see its effects all the time). Also, consider how easy it is to buy abroad in the internet age. My sister lives right across the border from Canada, and whenever there is a price/tax differential to exploit on one side or the other of that border, it is guaranteed to be exploited.

But this argument comes down to a technical issue, and really, even if it can't ever be solved, and we end up losing out on tax revenue because people find ways to buy without paying tax, how much worse would it be compared to all the loopholes that the super rich already utilize to avoid their income taxes?

In other words, even if FairTax does create an underground economy, in what way would this be worse than the present system? Would it not, even in such a case, still be better?

[WPandP]

The problems I see with the fair tax are these:

#1 It depends upon growth. Spending gets in the way since the government spends more than it collects in taxes, and hopes future growth will pick up the overage.

I'm not sure I see how you arrive at this. Any government that deficit-spends is reliant on growth, regardless of whether revenues come from income taxes or sales taxes. I know that making an adjustment from one system to another will be a major thing, and will probably shake the whole economy in uncomfortable ways, for a few months at least. But I don't see how collecting taxes at the cash register would imply deficit spending - they seem to be unrelated issues, and we just need to hold our congresspersons accountable for their budgeting.

I think that after the economy adjusts to the new mode, FairTax would produce growth. The kind of GROWTH that this country saw in its first century of existence, back before there ever was an income tax to slow it down! FairTax isn't dependent on Growth; I say that Growth is dependent on FairTax.

[Hawk]

The underground developed by the Fair Tax wouldn't/couldn't be near as big as the underground we have right now.
Think about it. Even drug dealers would be paying, hookers, welfarians, rich hoity-toitys, everyone would pay the same amount.
Sure an underground would develop. But how big could it actually get when even non-citizens would be paying the same tax?
No IRS. No tax loopholes. No government control of your money.
It has to be better than what we have.

[Gwizz]

I reread what I wrote and the wording was NOT clear.

I believe in a fair tax; but for reasons listed above I have little hope of seeing it come about. It would be great if it did.

I edited the post I made above. Hopefully it is MORE clear now

[Gwizz]

This morning my county said everyone will receive a $90 property tax increase on the next tax bill with more taxes to be announced shortly. They are using the courts change in the tax law. It seems like they are getting even with us for voting down more taxes. Also, one of the taxes we just voted down has now been changed to passing. They are still counting absentee ballots. It would be easy for them to mis-count these ballots like they did in the last major election. Where did our tax auditor go?

Also, I heard they now plan to tear out a rail line and replace it with a rail line. Even though funding was turned down to do this, they are going ahead with their plans anyway. They must know something I don't.

While some are calling for our politicians to go back for a special session to stop the courts from changing the tax laws, at the same time the same people are quietly against a special session. This is like throwing water and gasoline on a fire at the same time.

I checked this post to make sure the pronouns did modified the correct nouns this time.

[Gwizz]

Well my County has increased my property tax bill to over $250.00 now.

It is only one of many tax districts that could affect me.

Still better than having to pay the highest tax rate in the nation.