Beta-Tester? Two new maps

[Lama]

Dear All,

I have two new maps that are (hopefully ) ready for betatesting.
You can d/l them here:

Isola Nova
Northwestern Pacific

Any criticism is most welcome.

[belbincolne]

Hi Lama. Had a quick play at both these on Normal.

NW Pacific. Pretty easy to connect and no worries cash starting with a Lumber Mill up north. Connected San Fransisco immediately with a big station north of the river. It was called San Rafael and the real SR was SR Junction but it counted for connecting SF. However the passengers leaving it didn't count towards the goals. With some 5 years to go I finally had enough cash to buy into SF and built station and hauled two full train loads of passengers there plus two full loads lumber back. At the end of this my loads hauled still read Nil (in any category). Don't know if this is a fault in the scenario or something which only applies on my computer - you may recall from last year I had this problem on several other scenarios and was the only player where this applied. It would also be interesting to know if loads from SR early on would have counted (as I think they should) because this would make the scenario a lot easier.

Isola Nova. Well I got nowhere first try. I think it would be more enjoyable if there were only half the number of AIs as it's awful hard work with so many especially as they interconnect so you have to make notes of which Company owns which line and work out which you need to try to buy next to get rights to another territory. The Company I bought to start with never made enough money either from the solitary train or Industry to be able to raise the cash to buy my selected AI let alone connect to it afterwards. I couldn't find anything wrong with the game play though and will give it another try tomorrow now I've got some strategy worked out.

[Lama]

Thank you for your comments!

Pac NW: The station must be in the city of SF, the cost of building the bridge is an intentional obstacle.
Also, were you hauling lumber and paper TO, and pax FROM SF? That's what you should do.

IN: The AIs are hard to keep track of, and I'm sorry about that. Problem is that the ownership screen (F2 or F3, I think) can only handle 12 companies. I had to include that many AIs for gameplay reasons, though. They all fail if there's less.
Usually, taking over any of the three AI out of Ernul works well, or any other AI out of a 1 1/2-star city.

Please let me know what else you think about these maps, if you give it another shot.

[EPH]

I didn't try Isola Nova because I didn't want to install the loco too. Is it playable without?


Pac NW: built several profitable industries, ran up loans and started from San Francisco. Many money problems but no trouble laying track.

Finished route to Eureka. First trains made $3 million profit in one year. Cargo value then collapsed; was making $90 (that's $90,000) profit for the year on revenue of $2.4 million (debt load about $6 million in bonds).

Was barely within shooting range of goals for goods, lumber and paper but could not move passengers out of Frisco (no profits, so no money to even buy a loco, no chance of gertting a bond). Moved maybe 10% of the passenger goals; quit a year before the deadline.

If I can't make any money running six profitable industries and a railroad, then I must really be missing something.

[Lama]

Interest can do that to you! What was your book value at the time? I recommend not borrowing more than 50% of your CBV. Starting from San Francisco might also be too expensive, in terms of return on investment.

[belbincolne]

NWP - no I definitely carried the right goods but I've had this problem before for some reason in several scenarios my computer refuses to count loads carried correctly. I should uninstall and reinstall but its such a fag with all the user scenarios to add in as well as CtoC etc that I cant be bothered. I think my technique was the right way to win (ie wait until you have got the line running and cash coming in fast before connecting SF). My first two locos in and out of SF ie mostly lumber in and express out made an absolute fortune but didn't come up in the almanac so I packed in shortly after however my third out was stuck so I added in extra stations to its route and got it moving although at negligible profit - again loads didn't count nor that of any other train coming in nor goods to Eureka. In fact my almanac registers nil loads carried!

I'm puzzled though why connecting north of SF with a large station covering one port and several buildings in SF should count as connecting SF but not for loads - are you sure it doesn't (obviously I cant tell)? In one of the original scenarios (the one needing troops to SF) this worked. Think you need to try it yourself to check it out.

IN - I didn't install the new locos and it played fine. 2nd try I'd got my technique correct and have taken over 3 AIs with entry to two extra territories and their capital cities and connected to all three on my own lines, but to the stations owned by the taken over AIs. Alll three stations are large ones covering the area but of course there are others there as well. The almanac says only one cc is connected. As I'm only some 10 years in I haven't made any notes yet and will come back on it later on. I have connected to other AI lines and they're obviously running trains on my lines because my other income is quite high. (this was my technique to win the China scenario where, again, the loads carried mostly didn't count).

[EPH]

Okay. Other than the problems I listed, the events etc seemed to work as designed.

Nice scenery and a good small-scale scenario but very difficult to win.


BTW why no electric option?

[Lama]

BTW why no electric option?

Realism - no electric trains on this line.

Another thought on your Co's performance in the game you described: were you using a lot of Pacifics? These seem to be the worst fuel guzzlers prior to the Hummer, and they never make me any profit. I shun them whenever I can.

Okay. Other than the problems I listed, the events etc seemed to work as designed.

That's good to know! Do you have specific suggestions as to setting up the overall economic environment or goals? Please let me know.

[EPH]

I mention electric because the short length, grades and high necessary efficiency would made electrics ideal for the line. Why not allow them as an option?

I used Atlantics except for the thru-freight (and dedicated passenger trains) hauling from Euraka to SF.

I do use Pacifics because they haul 8 cars at a faster speed than an Atlantic plus better grade-climbing ability. Fuel rating is the same as the Atlantic and the maintenance is $3k per year more. They seem the better choice for the Eureka-SF run.


Instead of a $2 mil price tag for access to SF, why not open the territory based on cities connected or loads delivered? The bonds necessary for opening and bridging into SF crippled my company.

[Wolverine@MSU]

NW Pacific-

Played this one on Expert and finished with 5 years to spare. I used Consolidations almost exclusively except for small-train passenger runs out of SF, where I used the Atlantic. Toward the end, I used the H10s to haul full trains of Lumber (4) and Paper (4) from Eureka to SF. Built a Textile Mill in the middle somewhere by a couple of Sheep Farms at the outset, and later added a couple of Paper Mills, one in Eureka and the other in Fort Bragg. Didn't start building the tracks until the third year and then startrd from Eureka and worked south to Ukiah and beyond. Built up from San Raphael but didn't connect to SF until later in the game when I could afford it. Issued two rounds of stock every year and refinanced bonds when I could. I played on past the Gold for a while and was able to pay back all outstanding debt.

Nice map with good landcover and coloring. Building track was not a problem as the routes seemed pretty obvious based on the topography. The map size seems a bit small, but works well for the number of cities and results in reasonably quick deliveries.

All in all a nice map, but you could increase the delivery quotas a bit and it would still be winnable on Expert.

[Lama]

Thanks, Wolve! Your strategy pretty much follows the lines I found most promising, especially with starting track out of Eureka. I think that's where they started, in real life.
Seeing how EPH complained that I had hung the target too high, though, I'll pass on your recommendations for the goals.
As for map size, I still believe in making lots of small maps that people with low-end machines can play. Also, there's a number of people who enjoy the feel of a short-line RR in a map.
For the megalomaniacs, there is Isola Nova and such.

[Wolverine@MSU]

For the megalomaniacs, there is Isola Nova and such.

That's my next mission!

[belbincolne]

O/K Got Gold on I N umpteen years early. Solved the non- connection reason - I'd joined a line to an AI then continued it on - when I built an additional section so that there was a bridge over the AI line suddenly all my towns were connected. Loads were no problem at all (although whilst I was getting this done as rapidly as possible my directors started hating me for not doing better!) - pity the directors never know about a scenarios objectives!

Interestingly all my loads carried were recognised - it's only when specfic loads are needed that I dont get correct recording. As I said I found no faults at all with the gameplay and my only comment would be that the alternative win of being the only company must be an impossibility because although I'd taken over at least 7 AIs there were still 12 left so I suspect they keep forming new companies but its just too much like work to keep track of what each one is up to.

Think I'll go back to NWP and give it a try on Expert.

[belbincolne]

So NWP on Expert.

Tried it twice. First built a Lumber Mill and Textile Mill and then started railroading from Eureka. Absolutely hopeless.

Second time just the lumber mill then railroaded from SF north of the river. No trouble connecting until the last three towns where I needed some $1.5m - I was also very unfortunate with recessions. Had one early on and another just as I was reaching the north so couldn't complete until 12 years were up. Then had to wait until 15 to get enough cash and good credit rating to connect SF. Trains Eureka - SF were nothing like as profitable as before in fact those from Eureka barely made a profit hauling lumber and paper. Plenty of passengers going out but profit maximum of about $200k.

Pretty certain I wouldn't have got Gold but possibly bronze or silver - I finished with 5 loads of passengers from SF and nil on everything else. I simply cant understand how it calculates . Very, very wierd.

Anyway I could find nothing wrong with the scenario - and the map looks really nice.

[Lama]

Thank you for all your comments! It sounds like NWP is pretty much ready to launch. I have won it on Expert, but I was lucky with the economy and the industry seeding.

I'll hold off on IN to see if anyone finds glitches.

I guess the AI on IN are a bit confusing, but they are essential to winning. You get a head-start in far-flung corners when you merge, plus the access rights.
Some AI are rather weak, and should be really easy to take over.
So, the "last Co. standing" win is really for the player whose company is awash in cash, but late in making all connections; or for those who really like their robber baroning.

Having made the map, I know the AI Co.s by heart, but for general clarity, I now wish I had founded them in geographical clusters - so that all Co.s starting out in the same country are listed in a row. Unfortunately, there is no way of doing this, now.
Btw, there are 21 companies at the start, one of which is the human. Founding new companies is prohibited, and ousted chairmen (those you buy out) tend to invest their money reluctantly, and never make a bid for takeover. Hoping for the 1.06 patch to make things more interesting.

[belbincolne]

o/k so that means that no new companies were formed. I doubt if anyone could become so awash with cash that they could afford to do mass takeovers near the end especially as you have (sometimes) to pay over the odds for a takeover just to ensure you (as an individual) have enough cash / borrowing for the next takeover. I'll give it another try on Expert to see how I get on and see if I can take everyone over.

[AZ Rail Rat]

OK, here's a blog on how NOT to play IN (but some things ARE the way to go - Will mark 8) for do, :x for DON'T:


Results after 30 years on Easy:

6 companies left (5 to take over) - only 4 Points!!!
Made up for Easy because, believe it or not Ripley, NEVER bought a bond nor issued stock.

8) - Took over BIGGEST company FIRST.
:x - Worked from bottom from then on, next try top down?
8) - Bought 51% of each company BEFORE attempting merger. That way get for lowest slider price, even though it goes up a bit from buying all at once.
:x - Did not spread investments out, therefore other investors bought so many shares, there was not enough for me to buy when I got to the last ones.
- This was a personal preference, but as said, never put out a bond. Hate seeing my money go to bankers.
:x - For sure (maybe) should have issued stock after I had 51% of my own? That way other players would have gone more for me rather than themselves, maybe. Tradeoff though is, dividend has to be much higher or I get less to buy stock with. Still not sure on this one which way is better.

Now for the BIGGEST MISTAKES:
:x - Only industries bought were taverns, greasy spoons and flop houses in 1 star or plus cities. Spent WAY to much here instead of for takeovers.
:x - Double tracked WAY TO MUCH, WAY TOO EARLY. Because I run a limited number of trains (three max, two freight and one express per every four or five stations), ROI (Return On Investment) is not that great.
:x - AVOIDED connecting to other lines to prevent them from expanding. DID NOT WORK!!! Only thing it did was prevent connections for building points.

Changes (again like, don't like):

8) - LOVED that many players and companies. LEAVE AS IS!
:x - For us lazy old farts, give the original 30 years for GOLD, but how's about 35 for Silver and 40 for Bronze? I'm not really big on the medal thing anyway.
:x - For some reason, connect events kept triggering and display in the Ledger after 30 years, but loads hauled stopped counting. Makes it rather boring if you want to go on after you missed or even got a medal.

Summary - Sorry guys (all you other map makers) . . . IN is just about the best scenario I've played (other than my AZRR & NAZRR) in RRT3 memory! :D :D :D :D

[belbincolne]

Hell fire AZRR on Easy you should get Gold about 10 years early :) :D :D

I never issued stock - very rarely do which I'm sure is a flaw in my strategy on many scenarios. I do however almost always need an initial bond and when I can get them at 5 0r 6% I grab them (never quite to maximum in case I get a desparate need later on).

I also didn't double track anywhere and did connect to other lines in places only running trains there if my payout was about $1. On Normal I made some $1/2m pa - on Expert rarely more than $100k. To get round the non-connection see my earlier post.

My play on Expert was going well but I made the foolish mistake of buying big time into two companies rather than one and the economy crashed so I was in the red and hadn't the wherewithall to buy one out and save myself from a call. Shall have to start again.

[Lama]

AZ, I am tremendously flattered by your compliment!
That means a lot to me, especially coming from you.
I am particularly happy that you like the map, even though you didn't get a medal!
I never really felt that my large maps came out all that well. This is the first time I have made a really large map that did not end up in the trash bin. It is just so much easier to set up game balance and make the landscape if you are working with a small area. So that's another reason I am happy about your comment. :D

Your strategy tips make a lot of sense, and your blog also shows that it is possible to take the 'last RR standing'-route to the Gold.

I think you could win this one much earlier if you used bonds, stock issues, industry, and AI connection to the fullest.

For example, in my last game on this map, by December 1918, I had earned $40mil. That sum broke down almost exactly evenly into one quarter, each, from freight, express, industry, and 'other' (that is, usage fees the AI pay me).

The AI really is your friend, here - their trains don't cost you a cent, and all their revenue goes to you (while they're on your track). The AI are great at optimizing the profits on any given haul. Plus, the more cities are connected in a continuous network, the more passenger traffic you get - exponentially, actually.
'Other income' varied in the years from 1909 through 1918, between 11% and 30% of my total income. It was never less than 23% since 1914, and, as I said, was 25% on average since the game started, in 1905.

As far as expenses in the same game, by the end of 1918, I had spent $20mil., of which only 13% had gone towards interest (I had $7mil. in bonds at the end of 1918, at an average rate of slightly under 6%).
Everything else weighed heavier: 20% on overhead, 23% on fuel, and a whooping 37% on maintenance (track+train+station).

I share your sentiment on credit when it comes to consumer credit (do not ask me about my car loan - ). But for investment credit, it is ideally a win-win situation, since you can get an ROI of 10% and more (not that I have any experience with that type of credit in real life ) on productive capital.

I like your suggestion about staggered goal deadlines.
About the load haul counter: Because the loads hauled only start counting after you connect the capital, I had to use events to keep track of the loads hauled before and after you connect. Since events never get triggered after a medal has been awarded, this counter stops.

[davion76]

This discussion has gotten me thinking about "tracking" freight from one place to another. Would it be possible to allow and disallow the construction of specific industries in certain regions? If we could do this, then we have a way to "track" loads of a specific cargo.

We could create new industries, lets say a "steel mill B", that can only be built in region B that uses the same graphics. It creates a new product "SteelB" that uses the same graphics. Steel Mill B takes the same coal and iron ore to produce steelB. We would have to modify all buildings for that scenario that consume steel to also consume SteelB.

The net effect of this is it would allow us to make sure that Steel was generated in province B and delivered to province A, since a Steel Mill B can't be built in province A (or any other province if we so desire)