new map: Kane Valley (fictional)

[brunom]

Hi again fellas

When I introduced Dragozain as my first fictional map, I said I had a couple more almost ready. This is one of them and I think it is ready (I'm hoping for a quick beta), the other one is still in the shop with a lot to tune.

So, here's Kane. Map is composed of two large regions, one of which becomes available later in the game. The player needs to create and expand a network that covers key cities, making sure each of these cities "exports" specific commodities.

I really enjoyed both creating this map and playing it. In fact, I just finished playing a game on it on Expert, and it ran smoothly (to Silver, Gold is VERY hard).

Hope you guys enjoy and please comment, as usual, you know it makes me happy
B

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[Hawk]

In the briefing, in two places, you used our instead of out.

Martinia
Provence

[RayofSunshine]

That was a lot of fun, and I like the concept of the challenges. The terrain including the hilly areas were gradual enough to make for interesting and manageable traffic.
I did not get the Gold, as I started too late to haul "coffee" from Foragatte. Even though there are only 3 plantation sheds, none were close enough to get overlapped by a large station. Hence, pickings were very very slim, and I was only able to get 24 of the 50 required. Hence, it is recommended to start haul coffee early. A requirement might be more easily founded, if a player was to use the chemical/fertilizer use to enhance a better production of supply of coffee.
And it is easy to manage the hauls from designated cities, as a player does not have to connect.
Another, lets say difficulty, is that of haulling passengers into Darrin(?) territory. I paid a penalty every year, as I had no idea of how many passenger hauls I had actually made during a given year. And I was hauling from Kane, and Zella territories.
Now I don't know how to program the progress, but once that the other hauls are completed, would it be posssible to vacate that space in the ledger, so that there could be a yearly passenger haul total? Besides, even though I had access to all of the Darrin(?) territory cities, and although there was not that many outer territory cities with any great amount of passengers, most were not directed to the Darrin(?) cities. (sorry about the city name)
Although it was due to my application of laying bridges, of which I had the same problem in the Finland scenario, there wasn't any notable problem.
I only play in Medium mode.
As stated, a very good easy enough startegy pace, and I enjoyed it very much.

[brunom]

I thought of you Ray, while "carving" this map. It has serious mountains and I know you dread them. However, the point is to either go around or under, and I bet you did one of the two. Those mountains are just there for the scenery

You say you missed Gold because of the coffee hauls. I normally manage those, it's the 50 clothing from Tadjira that I can never accomplish. I thought of building a tunnel directly into the valley (instead of using the Martinia-Malik pass, which is how I normally link Kane to the eastern countries), once I have money for reaching Tadjira. However, I never got round to test it playing seriously and well enough.

I have some questions concerning strategy:

where did you start and which cities did you connect first?
did you take the offer to get access to Diramme right away or instead waited some years?
were there large parts of the territory that you left uncovered? is that a good or a bad thing in a scenario for you?
did the map look natural?

I'll see if I can squeeze in a note on the ledger with the yearly passengers count within/from Diramme.

Cheers
B

[Blackhawk]

Well I just got done playing this scenario. Overall it didn't seem that hard of a scenario to me, but it kept me entertained as I was usually busy doing or watching something most of the time.

Couple things:
In the briefing the sentence "The mighty empire of only fifty years before crumbled to pieces... " could possibly be rephrased or punctuation to make it flow easier.

Ledger says steel out of Kane, might want to make that Kane City.

As Ray said it might be nice to be able to have a notice of how many PAX have been hauled. I only was fined once, and the fine had little effect on me with the amount of revenues I had. One option to possibly make more room on the ledger would be to have the hauling requirements disappear as you complete them. I had completed the alcohol, meat, and steel haulage goals before I even got access to Diramme. If a person is able to complete one of these, there may then be more space to list how many PAX have been shipped.

In my game play I took advantage of an exploit in the game. You hand placed a few dairies and cattle ranches in 1920, but the scenario starts in 1916. Consequently for the first few years of the scenario these industries will cost the base price regardless of how much profit make. Buying up a few of these early and cheap are a nice investment and provided some helpful early cash flow.

I'm not sure if it's in happens in every run of this map but the coal traveled up a river from a port to Kane City to the steel mill. Once the coal finally reaches the steel mill, it's a great time to buy the mill. If you don't buy it then, it gets much more expensive, especially after the 50% increase in the costs of industries. The industries demanding steel in Kane slightly complicate hauling steel, however I built a tool and die a couple towns away. I'd imagine a quick and easy way to get some steel hauls would be to use 2 separate stations. One by the steel mill and one by the weapons factory and tool & die. This concept could also be used by Port Zealla with the port slightly away from the city demanding diesel.

[Blackhawk]

I thought of you Ray, while "carving" this map. It has serious mountains and I know you dread them. However, the point is to either go around or under, and I bet you did one of the two. Those mountains are just there for the scenery

You say you missed Gold because of the coffee hauls. I normally manage those, it's the 50 clothing from Tadjira that I can never accomplish. I thought of building a tunnel directly into the valley (instead of using the Martinia-Malik pass, which is how I normally link Kane to the eastern countries), once I have money for reaching Tadjira. However, I never got round to test it playing seriously and well enough.

I generally probably went "around" the mountains rather than spending money on expensive tunnels. I did connect from Nasogra - Greekvalla - Tadjira by going over the mountain. Sure there were a few 4s and 5s in the elevation grade but I figured most of my trains would be going down this, not up it. At the time I made this connection coffee was being hauled down that mountain, as well as wool from outside of Nasogra. Eventually I did send some trains up this route with some clothes but the amount of hauls up the steeper part of the mountain were too few to justify the expense of a tunnel.

I also connected from the south by building Matrinia down to Oulle Talik to Edeass to Malik. I generally didn't use this line that much. I may have sent a couple hauls of diesel out this way but for the most part once I got access to Diramme all my attention moved from Kane to Diramme and I don't even remember if I had a train running on this route. I think I may have only had a train connecting Edeass to Malik to Port Zella.



While initially directed towards Ray I figured I'll answer these questions as well.

I have some questions concerning strategy:

where did you start and which cities did you connect first?

I started off in Martinia and connected to Marti Valley. Then Zedainne. Then Allene City. Then Kane City. During this time I bought up some of the cheaper industries (see above post about the exploit), and the meat plant in Martinia which I upgraded. After those connections I built a brewery in Provence and I made a 2nd branch for my railroad by Provence to Agardoui, which later connected down to Port Illkbenne, and then to Prait and finally connecting my line to Martinia. I then created another branch line and worked on getting the coffee and connected a few coffee farms to Foragatte. Many years later this finally connected with my main line.

did you take the offer to get access to Diramme right away or instead waited some years?

I was tempted to take it right away as I had the money"and seemingly had run out of things I could do to that would help me towards the goals and I more than met the negotiation power requirements. But instead I attempted a negotiation though and I got access right after I demanded a reduced cost to go there. So I guess I did get access right away. I didn't realize I could have bought access into Zealla any time I wanted so I was waiting for that territory to open up by some event but after I got access to Diramme I realized I could buy access to Zealla. I would have had more things I could have done while waiting for Diramme, but I still would likely have gone into Diramme right away.

were there large parts of the territory that you left uncovered? is that a good or a bad thing in a scenario for you?

I figured a picture would be more representative than trying to say where I went to or didn't go to. The main reason I went to Ouradjid was to haul the cotton from there up to Tadjira. I doubt I had to haul the cotton from down there up to Tadjira to meet the goal but I figured I'd get done faster and decided to go for it.
Having something in Libane? (the Northwestern country) like a city or two even if you never get to access them might make it look like it's a country, unless it's just supposed to be empty land. I don't mind not covering the entire map in track. Actually I prefer scenarios where I don't need to connect every city to win.

kane.jpg (10.32 KiB) Viewed 12661 times

did the map look natural?

Overall it seemed alright to me.

[brunom]

First of all, congrats Blackhawk, for the Gold and I am glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks for your detailed comments - they're very valuable. I will try to correct evertyhing you spotted (including deleting those industries and placing them in an appropriate date). The only glitch I don't think I can avoid is the possibility of hauling goods "within" a city - that exploit will have to remain there because I can't think of a way to impede it.

I am very glad/happy/amused with the way you approached the map and the choices you made. They're quite different from what I had envisaged for this map. And that means the map isn't "obvious" which is good from a playability point of view.
Normally, I start in Kane City and link to the port town, downstream. There's so much to be hauled up and down that river that I can have 2 or 3 trains with goods doing that line (normally one is dedicated to 8 coal everytime it goes north). Then a second branch goes east either to Martinia or Allene City, and right after, a third branch to the remaining one, more or less creating a triangle. This makes Kane City my "economic center", whereas, in your case, it ended up being secondary to the Martinia-Allene axis. It's funny how transport affects a country, even in a simple computer game.

Another thing that surprised me was your decision to railroad across the desert. I linked Ouradjid to Zealla following the coast line (but maybe that's why clothing from Tadjira is ALWAYS my biggest difficulty for Gold ) which makes it easier to achieve the passenger count. Nevertheless, the passenger count penalty should be harmless by that point of the game and it's designed to be a mere annoyance.

Once again, very glad you enjoyed the map, very happy with you sharing your game-story, quite satisfied with myself and with this map
Cheers
B

[Blackhawk]

I am very glad/happy/amused with the way you approached the map and the choices you made. They're quite different from what I had envisaged for this map. And that means the map isn't "obvious" which is good from a playability point of view.
Normally, I start in Kane City and link to the port town, downstream. There's so much to be hauled up and down that river that I can have 2 or 3 trains with goods doing that line (normally one is dedicated to 8 coal everytime it goes north). Then a second branch goes east either to Martinia or Allene City, and right after, a third branch to the remaining one, more or less creating a triangle. This makes Kane City my "economic center", whereas, in your case, it ended up being secondary to the Martinia-Allene axis. It's funny how transport affects a country, even in a simple computer game.

I saw Kane City and thought about starting there, but then I did not like the nearby cities/industries enough to connect to them early in the game. Partly because I didn't notice the usefulness of the down stream port city until a few years into the game. Had I known about that port it may have effected my decision to start in Kane City, but it's always nice to know there are multiple starting positions that can win a scenario.

Another thing that surprised me was your decision to railroad across the desert. I linked Ouradjid to Zealla following the coast line (but maybe that's why clothing from Tadjira is ALWAYS my biggest difficulty for Gold ) which makes it easier to achieve the passenger count. Nevertheless, the passenger count penalty should be harmless by that point of the game and it's designed to be a mere annoyance.

It looked like the obvious path would have been to connect the coastal cities in the desert, and I did think about doing that. But then I realized I didn't need that many extra passengers and it would just be extra track and cities that I didn't really need connected for the purposes of winning the scenario. Looking at all the cotton around Ouradjd though was just too tempting to pass up so I made a quick route there. Of course I only hauled the loads of cotton at a profitability of maybe 2-3k per load but all I cared about was getting cotton to the textile mill in Tadjira, not the profitability.


As usual another good Brunom map.

[RayofSunshine]

I will have to agree with Brunom as to the method used by Blackhawk. Interesting.

Anyway, I was surprised at the haul of "coffee". From my understanding, the coffee had to be hauled "out of Faragatte", although from the way I read the Blackhawk thread, that the hauls were made "into" Faragotte. SO, am I to assume that those hauls of coffee, are sort of "held" in Faragotte, or immediately loaded on a standing train, for the haul "out of"? a little confusion, which isn't anything new to me.

Then the passenger haul. I did not have a problem with the passenger haul as those being reported. However, I did not find an adequate amount of passengers to meet the requirement of those being hauled into Diramme, and hence a penalty each year. Although there were a few passengers "standing by", they were directed to other cities. OR, when some were actually directed to a Diramme city, they were of some distance in Kane territory.

A great scenario, with a good concept in challenges, and imagination of goals.

[Blackhawk]

The scenario does in fact check for coffee hauled out of Faragotte. But I figured the best way to get the haulage goal was to set up stations by the farms, set the trains to wait til they have a load or two of coffee, then haul to the coffee to Faragotte. Faragotte was essentially a staging ground. From there I'd then haul the coffee to the neighboring towns. Using this method meant it was important to move the coffee out of Faragotte so the price would go back up and the coffee could be hauled from the farms to Faragotte again. I was only able to use this method with I think 3 of the 5 nearby coffee farms, since if I tried to haul from the other 2 farms the cargo system in 1.05 would not have allowed it as I would have been losing money and thus unable to haul the coffee. That's not to say I was always able to send the coffee from the 3 farms connected to Faragotte though. There were times my trains would just be sitting there waiting for the price of coffee in Faragotte to go up. However, the other 2 farms were always higher in price than the price in Faragotte so it would not have been worth even trying to connect to them.

As for the Diramme passenger haul: It's been several days since I've played this scenario but I thought the requirement was to haul passengers "from" Diramme to Kane or other places in Diramme, not to haul PAX into Diramme?

[RayofSunshine]

Blackhawk,
My map only had 3 coffee farms. Will try your suggestion on hauls.
There is a passenger requirement, which gets posted in the yearly ledger. However, there is some type of "contract" to connect with a "border city" for possibly some monetary amount, with the stipulation that a player haul 10 passenger loads yearly to Diramme, or pay a penalty. And as I mentioned, I was not able during that contract to fill that contract. There just were not that many passengers who wanted to go to Diramme, as well as a lack of passenger "supply" of the whole map. I did manage to get a consist of 4 once from a distant city in Kane territory, otherwise..........ziltch. But it is an interesting concept.

[brunom]

The initial setting usually yields more than 3 coffee farms in the north forest around Foragatte. It should vary with some randomness more around 6 coffee farms to divide between the Foragatte in the north and the forested slopes close to Pelsker and Woramanne. Because the land is flatter in the north, farms tend to pop up there.

I guess up to 7 or 8 farms are probable or as little as 2 or 3, but the most likely result is 5.

Once the time starts to run, that's a whole different subject. Farms, mines and industries close and open depending on profitability. If coffee isn't hauled out of that area, it will because over abundant and, consequently, as cheap as water. This causes the farms to operate on a loss and eventually they start closing down. The same will happen with the cotton farmland around Ouradjid, specially if no ports pop up in the coastal towns (as they would help shipping it out)

I will look at the odds though, and see if I can increase the probability of coffee farms in the north.

The passenger count is "out of Diramme or within Diramme". It's a simple "YTD Pass. Hauls from Terr. => 10" condition.

B

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Brunom,
From your explanation, I just had a thought. Being of a random configuration on the "coffee farms", and their availability in a random system, there is the possibility of some reasoning.
I DID NOT make a connection to Fagarotte until last on the requirements. At that time I did see a few expired "plantations" . When I boot up the scenario next time, I will check the area to see if those plantations are in an active stage.
Having industries "disappear" is not new in scenarios, as is that which is of reality. So, that might be my problem to get the necessary hauls of coffee.
As MSU or Blackhawk has had some interesting figures of the requirements, especially in regards to the passenger hauls pertaining to Diaramme, I could have just had a bad economy level.
Will just change some of my "approaches" in your final version.

[brunom]

Blackhawk is even using this map already, and nobody is testing it anymore. The small bugs were fixed, including spelling, two cities in Libanne and the end of the industry exploit and everything is fine and playable.

... Which means ...

BETA over, thread closing, map up for the archives.

B

[Hawk]

Now available in the archives in the 'Other Lands' section.

[belbincolne]

Hi. Shortage of time has meant that I have a dozen new scenarios to play and I've only managed this one because I've finished my packing early before I go off for a few weeks.

Anyway I got gold on normal six years early. I built and upgraded all the industries and had a ton of money most of the time. Indeed there was no point in spending it towards the end so I added an extra personal target of PNW. To get the carryings targets I ran custom trains from each required town and (like others) built a station at each coffee farm to get it to where it was needed.

Enjoyed playing it thanks very much. With so many others to do doubt if I will ever get round to trying it on Expert although I'd like to give it a try.

[joost]

It's a great scenario, thanks. Just got gold on expert, but that may be due to my strategy of starting out with buying the new up-for-grabs milk farms. There were three close to Kane city available for $400k. They made a steady 150k profit, through boom and recession. Is this done deliberately or was I just lucky with the map I got? Also no trouble with the coffee, but again, I got four plantations near faragotte, and I also started early, at about five years.
Anyway, liked it, as usual with your scenario's

[Hawk]

Dairy farms are always great for a good steady, albeit somewhat low income.

[brunom]

I'm glad you liked it, joost. Thanks for playing it.

As for the dairies.. it is definitely unintended! As you can read in this thread, that was spotted, and should have been fixed - I must have messed up the version I uploaded for the site - will make it right and upload an improved version soon.

Happy summer!
B

[RayofSunshine]

An updated version? Just when it was starting to get interesting. LOL Will be waiting.