Overlapping Stations

[soccersetter643]

Hey all, been playing this game for a while, and I have some questions about station traffic, especially later in the game. I also have some ideas about how to make station traffic more efficient.

First, some background.

I've been experimenting with the notion of using the same setup that the AI usually uses, which is to run one train to two stations ONLY, back and forth. Every time I connect to a new town, I add a new train for that. This usually only applies to the scenarios with the smaller, cheap trains. This keeps the max car limit down, speeds high, and ensures that passengers will use the rail system, as at every station there is a train going closer to the next station that they want to go to.

The problem that I am beginning to run into is station traffic. The major hub cities become clogged very quickly, even with double tracking. So I experimented with using a second, smaller station to service specific industries in the cities only.

So far, the results are pretty good.

The specific concept is that at the station location, any trains going to that station have to reload. So if you have 7 trains going to one station, then you have to have one section of track where there is the possibility of having 7 trains clogging up the rails.

By adding another station just for the specific freight, you can get some of the freight trains off of that main station hub, and relieve congestion somewhat. I'll see about posting a picture of what I'm talking about.



As you can see, this hub city (Rochester) is connected to way to many cities, and congestion in the hub is way too high. As the rails branch out, the congestion gets lessened, but the problem in the middle remains, even after double tracking.



Now, there is a lumber mill in Rochester that needs logs. Some of those trains coming from other stations are probably bringing in logs, which will slow them down and increase congestion, not to mention limit the amount of passenger service that can be provided that a generic "any-cargo" 4-car train can provide. If we could shift those logs onto another track to another station... that would probably be ideal, right?



As you can see, what i've done is create a completely separate line from my main lines, that runs to 2 logging camps (I had one game in Germany where I could cover 6 produce factories with one large station! Once I bought them all, I just had to wait for a distillery to appear in munich, buy it for super cheap, and I was home free!).



Questions!!!

I have a few.

1. By overlapping your stations like this, do you run the risk of stealing passenger traffic from the main station?

2. Do you think the opportunity cost of the extra traffic at the main hub station justifies the creation of a second station/line for specific freight?

3. Has anyone looked into the benefits/drawbacks of creating 2 stations in large cities, each of which covers roughly the same area, and using one for freight and one for express?

4. Are my congestion issues just a byproduct of my using a station from one station to the next only?

5. I have tried the train that runs back and forth from 3 stations, and found it to be not as efficient in games set during the 1800s (obv. later, when trains can go 70+ with high acceleration, that is ideal). What do you think of that system as opposed to the traditional daisy-chain (3-station) system, the hub & spoke system, and the square system?



Also, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

[nedfumpkin]

I generally will not have two stations in close proximity to each other. I tend to micromanage my cargo, kep in mind that I play Trainmaster mod only now, so congestion issues are dealt with by organizing my trains.

For passengers, I run express trains between the major cities, and then milk runs from a-b-c-b-a...never going further than 3 stations.

Freight has to be going somewhere, and so I arrange it to do just that. I don't run empty trains ever, and usually freight will be a custom consist to move freight where it is needed most.

For supplying cities from resources, I usually try to lay out a route so that when the train gets back to the source, there is a load waiting for them. So Imight take a load of logs to a sawmill, then lumber to where it is needed, then something back to the lumber camp.

I generally play with fewer money making trains and rarely get over 100 trains. It's all in the planning of my routes.

[Hawk]

Then there's the other side of the coin.

There's been may times I've had two and even three stations in one city, depending on the cities size.

[OilCan]

I tend to set up routes about like nedfumpkin does - rarely if ever more than 3 stations per train, never run empty, special supply trains. However, and depending on the game map, I tend to use only 2 cities per train up to about the 1900's because the 1800s trains move so slowly.

I have used double stations at large cities, especially later in a game. It is not a common practice for me, but I will if I notice that the traffic is very heavy. I mostly tend to make spur lines to cities off a main rail which allows through traffic not to get congested with station traffic. This tactic helps lower congestion at a city station. Sometimes I'll create a railway 'freeway system' with overpasses and off/on ramps to relieve a congestion point.

To answer your questions, Soccarsetter643, two stations with overlapping caches (green zones) do 'rob' each other, or share the same cargo. That said, a train which runs between the two overlapping stations will be very profitable despite the two stations having the same cargo.

The cost advantage of two stations in the same city is the time savings, especially for trains with small, less profitable loads, to approach and leave a station. I would think it is not a matter of freight vs mixed cargo but more related to the overall efficiency in moving trains in and out of a city.

Hard to say whether your congestion is the result of your 2-city per train system or not. The 2-city per train system precludes through traffic at a station, so this is a plus. You are probably losing some money which you could make from shipping a valuable cargo from several stations away.

[Hawk]

A couple of things I would like to point out.

1) Your trains will take the shortest route between their two destinations. If you lay track to by-pass a city, and that track is longer than going through the city, your trains will still go through the city.
The work-around for this is to use way-points on the by-pass track.

2) You didn't say which version of RT3 you're playing.
If you're running 1.05 or earlier, and you run trains from station A to station B, and there's freight at station A that needs to go to station C, it will never make it unless you micro-manage a train for that cargo. Trains in RT3 (unlike in RT2) won't haul freight if it can't make a profit on it, which means you can't haul freight from station A to station B, drop it off and pick it up with another train to station C if it's not profitable. Actually, you can't even do that if it is profitable. If there's freight at station A and it needs to go to station C, it will not let you pick it up at A and drop it off at station B to wait for another train to take it to C. If it's not demanded at B you can't haul it from A to B to begin with. If it is in demand at B, and you haul it from A to B and expect to pick it up with another train to take it to C, you most likely will be disappointed because it probably will have already been consumed at B.
With passengers it's a different story though. They will move from city to city to get to where they're going. Hotels in some key cities can be a bit profitable because of this, and I think hotels will help to inspire passengers to board your train at the city before it - although I could be wrong on that. It may just be that hotels only give your passengers a placer to spend their money. Restaurants also, although less profitable. I've not found taverns to be worth it, nor post offices.
If you're playing 1.06, this isn't that big of an issue because the guys that created the 1.06 patch made hauling at a profit loss possible.

I'm sure some of the other better players will jump in here with better info than what I just gave though.

[Blackhawk]

Most of the time I only use one, but occasionally there is so much traffic of the city is too big and requires the use of 2 stations. In cases like this I usually make more of a North and South station or East and West station. Although the stations may almost completely overlap. Then I'll route the trains to the whichever station is closer and easier to get to.

Sometimes I'll use separate branch lines, other times I'll just put them on the same track.

Ex. Cities south of Rochester would use a Southern Station and cities North of Rochester would use a Northern station. (The Red boxes would be a rough idea of where I would have placed the stations)

While early on in the game I may do some locomotives that only go to one city, often I go with a train that's more like A to B to C. And maybe I'll buy a 2nd train with the same route but start it at a different city or if demand isn't high I'll just do a variation of that and do A to C to B.

In your pictures I'm surprised you didn't double track by Rochester.

Looking at your branch route, my branch route would likely look a little different:

The red would be the track I'd lay to make a 2nd station on the outskirts of the city while still trying to use as much of the current line as I could to cut down on build cost and maintenance. The yellow would be a possible extra line to connect to the station so the northern routes wouldn't share as much common track. One thing that looks like it's likely a cause of congestion is the placement of the tower/shed right before the line branches off. This will save money in not having to buy separate tower/sheds but it also means all the trains will stop there and slow things down a little. You may also want to double track around those, or put separate towers/sheds on the different branches.

[Moggie]

I usually use two stations only when even a large station cannot cover all of the city. Sometimes it's just an organisational thing, like in Chunnel where I sometimes have London station on the north bank of the Thames and London International on the south bank. Then I have British trains stop in London and continentals in London International. China is another example because Beijing is too large to cover with a single station.