New Cargo info, and a request!

[milo]

Discovered a few interesting things about cargo types:

• The .CTY files are used only when creating a new scenario, or when loading a scenario for editing. The game save file actually contains a copy of all of the info in these files, and it overrides whatever is set up locally when loaded.
• .CTY files specify the internal name of the cargo. RT3 maps that name through a hardcoded table to a message code in RT3.lng, or passes it straight through if there is no match.
• It's possible to change the name of a cargo in memory, and this will get saved and restored with the rest of the scenario. The economic displays, station cargo listings, and the warehouse recipes all show the new name of the cargo; however, existing buildings currently still display the old name.
• Icons are retrieved by taking the cargo's internal name, tacking on ".imb", reading that file, and then loading whatever 32x32 image it points to. If the name does not resolve to an .IMB, it uses the 'Any Cargo' icon.

Conclusion: it may be possible to do anything from just 'skinning' cargoes to replacing types outright in a given scenario...

The Challenge:
I'm still figuring out the logistics of how to change cargo specs within a scenario, but one piece is quite clear: we'll want to include as many new cargo icons as we can in the final 1.06. These should be 32x32 images, in whatever format you can create, with a black or transparent background and a look+feel that matches the other cargo icons. So, if there's a cargo you've always wanted to use in a scenario, bring up Paint, draw a picture, and upload your masterwork!

Make sure you're OK with having your work released under the Apache 2.0 license. Oh, and please mention what you've uploaded in this thread, so that the modding team can find it.

[pure al]

Here are a few new cargo icons and three originals to compare with. If you are going to make some please remember that the background should be transparent, so in the case of those below the black background should be removed.



Comments as always welcome

[milo]

Huh! With the overwhelming response, I'd kinda written that project off. Very nice work there, pure al!

I read through the earlier discussions on the board, and researched modern exports a bit as well. These seem to be the main cargo categories we're missing:

• Rock (sand, gravel, cobble) {required for Ceramics}
• Ore (copper, silver, gold) {required for Ingots}
• Dye (paints, stains, tints) {optional for Textiles, Ceramics, Plastics, Furniture}
• Ingots {required for Electronics and Money; required with Steel and Oil for Machinery after 1880}
• Machinery {possible input for all Factories and Construction Firms}
• Money
• Ceramics (bricks, tiles, glass, cement) {demanded by Construction Firms; required along with Steel for Concrete}
• Concrete [1850] {required by Construction Firms}
• Electronics [1900] {input for just about everything}
• Medicine [1905] (input for hospitals and houses}

It's actually hard for me to think of other cargos that don't already mimic the behavior of either existing cargos or these - fish obviously behaves like meat in several of the scenarios, but even the huge category of Detergents seems to have the same sources and destinations as Medicine without being as fun. The next 'main' cargo would probably be Salt, which goes to Meat Packing Plants and Houses (whee.), or Gems, which provide an alternate path to Money, and which might help Electronics after 1950.

Of your icons, we could use Money as is, Silver for Ingots, Cement for Concrete, and either Gravel or Sand for Rock with the other held in reserve in case I figure out how to skin cargo. Sound good?

[milo]

Stupid question: can you post the icons in a non-lossy format like .PNG, .BMP, or .TIFF? I think I may have lost some detail re-converting the JPEG to .TGA form.

[Hawk]

milo-What program are you using to convert the jpg to tga?
The reason I ask is if you're using PSP8 it won't work. That version doesn't convert alpha channels in tga format.
Let me see what I can do.

Edit 1: I may not have done this right but check it out.

Edit 2: OK! Never mind. I just read Als post. :)

[pure al]

Wow guys hang on, I haven't even finished those! I was just trying to get some interest in icons from others in the community with that jpeg :)

Milo I'll be supplying you with dds files with alpha channels just like the real icon image files. You don't need to convert that jpeg above! Give me a few days and I'll start emailing the files. I can't place them on the ftp with my current comp setup, so emailing is the best way for me?

Unless I just email them all to Hawk in one zip and then he can place them on the ftp? If that's ok with you hawk? Someone let me know what I should do.

Oh and Milo thanks for that cargo list, very very helpful. I'm making a prisoner cargo atm, could go in place of troops and be created at the barracks, unless we can also rename buildings? Do you think instead of 'gravel' and 'sand' I should just have 'rock'? Anyway you guys are free to rename my cargos to whatever you want.

[Hawk]

You can email them to me or milo, either way.
Unfortunately you can't attach a file using the email in the forum. I think in the next version phpBB they've implemented that, but it doesn't help you much now.
Can you use anonymous FTP through your browser? No FTP utility needed.

[Gwizz]

Was container cargos on the list.
A container could go to or from any city or port.
It might replace the earlier mail cars.
I don't know when container used started.
I don't believe mail cars are used much if at all today.

[milo]

It's unfeasible to add express cargos, but we might be able to skin existing ones. Containers would be an alternate skin for mail, then, and prisoners an alternate for troops. Note that renaming a cargo does >not< rename it on the building recipe - the barracks will claim it's still producing troops even though it's actually generating prisoners - so skinned cargos will likely be safe only when generated or consumed by warehouses/ports. This limits their usefulness enough that I'm still debating whether to include them.

Buildings seem to be read from disk every time rather than stored in the game like cargos. We can rename ports and warehouses, and that's about it.

BTW, I'll be on a business trip next week, so if we're serious about this, 1.06 final won't be out until at least the week of the 23rd.

[Wolverine@MSU]

BTW, I'll be on a business trip next week, so if we're serious about this, 1.06 final won't be out until at least the week of the 23rd.

What? You mean you have a life outside of RT3?

[pure al]

That's a shame, thought it would rename the cargo in the buildings also, although thinking about it the building's files dictate what cargos they can and can't use. What if we edited all the buildings so that they'd accept these new cargos? It would only appear where the cargo would be activated in the editor. Maybe that's a bit too much modding, forget that, I'll post a jpeg with some new cargo icons soon.

[Orange46]

Discovered a few interesting things about cargo types:

• The .CTY files are used only when creating a new scenario, or when loading a scenario for editing. The game save file actually contains a copy of all of the info in these files, and it overrides whatever is set up locally when loaded.
• .

Is this how sheep sometimes show up in cattle cars?

[AZ Rail Rat]

Discovered a few interesting things about cargo types:

• The .CTY files are used only when creating a new scenario, or when loading a scenario for editing. The game save file actually contains a copy of all of the info in these files, and it overrides whatever is set up locally when loaded.
• .

Is this how sheep sometimes show up in cattle cars?

RAILROAD TYCOON - Where MEN ARE MEN (and the sheep are nervous)

[pure al]

Ok, think I got most of them now:

[IMAGES REMOVED]

Are the icons identifiable? Milo what format is best in your opinion, tga or dds?

[JoshM]

I totally agree we should have containers and don't forget piggybacks, or maybe they should just be the type of car for cargos such as goods, electronics ect.

Some how I'd like to be able to process corn into corn syrup (sugar) and haul it in a tank car.


The icons look good, maybe sand should be a pyramid shaped pile though.

[milo]

I'm leaning towards TGA just because it's easier for the community to create and edit those. We'll get slightly better quality but worse space characteristics than with .DDS.

Icons look very nice! You've done a great job matching them to the style of the existing icons, too. The Medicine icon is the only one I'd quibble about; it seems more of a 'health' picture than a 'medicine' picture. I suppose a hypodermic would get us in trouble with the ESRB. :) Maybe an aspirin or a Red Cross sign?

Here were the other cargos I found in either scenarios or discussions:

- Salt (modifies only Meat Packing Plant)
- Tools (skin Machinery)
- Fish (skin Livestock)
- Tea (skin Coffee)
- Tobacco (skin Coffee)
- Deuterium (skin Uranium)
- Wire (skin Ingots)
- Valuables (skin Money)
- Perfume (skin Medicine)
- Peanuts (skin Grain)
- Syrup (skin Milk?)
- Detergents (skin Medicine)
- Newspapers (not sure if these were distributed by rail)

Orange46: Have you actually seen sheep in cattle cars in the game? I wonder... There's a disabled piece of code in the game that suggests "Cattle" was once "Livestock", and that sheep farms produced both Livestock and Wool. I'll take a closer look at that car!

[bombardiere]

Great work Pure Al!!!!!!!!

Hey could you make china (porcelain glass etc.) for me. I was going to make a one but I don’t really have time. It could use Rock or Sand as raw material. Not highly realistic, but I prefer simple cargo chains.

Also I would be interested in some kind of generic Food Product or Canned Food. I would like to turn Produce into something else than just Alcohol and it would be nice if Bakeries could produce something.

However…. I have no objections to add all kinds of cargoes as potential and do the ground work for it. But if we are going to introduce full new cargo chains (with buildings and cars) in the patch, I want those to be fairly basic and simple. More exotic and complicated cargoes should be left for expansion packs and scenario.

[milo]

Well, keep in mind we're limited to 11 additional full cargos in the base set - that's why the suggestions are rather general. "Ceramics" is supposed to cover bricks, glass, tiles, pottery, and china, for example. Even "Sand" will probably have to be a skin for "Rock" rather than a cargo in its own right.

There's in fact already a Food icon shipped with the game; my guess is that the Cannery was supposed to produce it. It overlaps with Meat, so I was figuring we'd use it as a skin at most. Beer is also in there - looks as if Alcohol may have started out as Wine or Liquor.

I'm not planning to add buildings to the patch - they take too much work for the time scale we're on. With the extra cargos and cargo skins in the game, developers can at least build warehouses that use them, and we can put out building packs later. The images for the cargos have to go in now because they affect what players who haven't installed expansion packs see.

None of the proposed new chains are longer than existing chains. Some of them may add interesting decisions, though - construction firms want both ceramics and concrete, which requires ceramics; how do I maximize my results?

[Orange46]

Yesterday, as I was watching a freight coming from up north, I was thinking about all of the bulk head flat cars loaded with products from forest product companies. I like their looks and they were my favorite car in MS Train Simulator. Would it be possible to add such a car using the post 1950 tool & die car as a base?

Also, would it be possible to add a pre-1850 tank car - probably a flat car with barrels. The current one is so out of place and it pains me every time it shows up. And a wooden tank should probably be the 1850-1899 car.

As for cargoes, I have no idea what is in the packages on today's bulk head cars, but that is the cargo that I would opt for. Probably stuff for the housing industry. (Could it be lumber?)

Many model railroads have gondola cars carrying scrap metal. How common this is on non work trains, I don't know, but it is common at train shows. (No, AZ Rail Rat, I don't want a circus train.)

[pure al]

btw sorry to those of you with small screen resolutions, I went a little ott with the size of those cargo names :?

[IMAGE REMOVED]

The rest I'll make a start on when I get some free time.

Yes the medicine icon, totally agree with you milo. I remember not too long ago the red cross (it's a company not a sign) started taking games companies to court because their logo was being used, so opted not to do that. I started working on a hypodermic icon, but it looked risky, so then I got some weird health logo. Maybe I'll just do a red cross, and let you deal with the courts :D

I'll try to save the files as tgas, although I find targas sometimes mess with transparencies.