RRT3 and Windows Vista... a solution

[Thawed Out]

After 10 hours of solid searching and seemingly 50 reinstalls, I think I found the solution to the Windows Vista problem. I discovered a BETA patch that was released from Take2, and is available at Gamers Hell.

The v1.04 Beta, available here: http://www.gamershell.com/download_5729.shtml appears to have all the functionality of the Coast to Coast expansion, and is completely stable on Windows Vista/DX10. It allows for custom content (user locos, skins, and logos), and seems to work with custom maps from the download archives at this site.

I installed this patch on a clean install of RRT3, tested, and it worked. I then installed the C2C expansion to a ghost directory, and copied all files EXCEPT the .exe file, testing again with positive results. I then began adding user content (Including the loco pack) and this also worked. Then I tried to add the v1.06 beta, and this caused the game to crash again.

My wife has been playing RRT3 all morning, with no crashes or hangups, all user content is working (even in the campaign mode). Later today, I am going to do a ghost install of the v1.06 patch and try using the methods I used with C2C and see if adding buildings and cargos will function, however, maybe now that we have a stable Vista version, a new patch can be developed using v1.04 beta to accomplish the same things.

Anyhow, I am new to these forums, and I'd like to thanks everyone here who has developed these wonderful add-ons to this game, and hopefully I can continue to contribute here.

Thanks
Ross

-edit-
BTW I Suppose I should put in some system specs here for comparison purposes:

Pentium Dual Core 3.0GHz
1GB DDR2
ASUS NVidia 6200
Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS
140GB and 200 GB HDDs

[Thawed Out]

after tinkering around some more with this, unfortunately, nothing from the unofficial v1.06 patch (excepting the loco pack, also available seperately) functions with the v1.04 beta patch. I have no way of determining whether the patching program will alter the beta patch, as the program specifically looks for the program version 1.05 for patching. however this might be something for the developers to look into in the future if anyone desires to look into patching for Windows Vista.

My wife has now been playing for roughly 12 hrs straight, and the game only crashed once, and the circumstances could not be duplicated, so I think it is merely an isolated occurance.

as I said before though, I have gotten full functionality from all of the Coast to Coast content, as well, as add-on Locomoives and reskins, and Railroad Logos. I have also added several of the User made maps and scenarios with no problems at all. So, for at least the mean time, I am pretty well covinced that this problem is solved.

[Knave]

One of the reasons I have not upgraded to Vista was the inability to play RRT 3. You have done a real service to those who are running or considering Vista. A hearty Job Well Done to your wife. My Wife does play games. However I have only managed to talk her away from Sims 2 for ten minutes of SMR. Once.

[Thawed Out]

Thanks, we appreciate it.

btw, if you are considering Vista... STAY AWAY from Home Basic... spend the extra $$$ on Home Premium or better.. Basic is a real pain in the behind to manage files in... :D

hopefully, modding can continue on the Vista platform from here, and we can see parallel development between XP and Vista versions. After taking a look at SM's Railroads!, I decided that RRT3 was far better (or maybe I should say that it suited our needs better), and have avoided getting SMR.

anyway, Cheers!

Ross


btw.. I must correct an earlier post... I got 1 thing out of the 1.06 patch to work, and that was the Fertilizer Plant, other than that, none of the buildings that I have introduced has worked.

[milo]

Neither the 1.05A nor the 1.06 patch is likely to work with Vista. They make changes to RT3.exe that apparently give Vista conniptions. Unfortunately I don't have a box running uSoft's latest gaffe, so it's fairly unlikely I'll be able to track down or fix the problem - which is most likely a checksum failure of some kind.

[Thawed Out]

no probs... got nothing but time :D ...

actually, more of what I'm trying to figure out is how to add the buildings and cargos into the mix of things, unless that is dictated by the exe. If that is the case then I'll just have to wait for a bunch of folks smarter than me to figger it all out :D ... again, nothin but time :D

I have spent years tweaking other games and getting them to work like I want them to, and have a lot of experience dealing with freeware authors, and understand the complexities involved, especially the free time thing :D

[Orange46]

Yesterday, I tried out Football Mogul 2007 and it didn't work in Vista. It gave me the same kinds of problems I encountered with the CtC patch. But, eventually I was able to download a patch at the Mogul site and although I had problems installing it (as with CtC), I was able to drag it onto the proper file and now FTM works in Vista. With RT3, however, all that I could get it to do after dragging and dropping was to bring up the first screen for a second or so, where I could see the version number. Given that RT3 1.0 works in Vista, CtC and 1.06 should be able to work, with the proper patch or fix to the CtC patch. (The 1.03 patch has also given me problems in Vista.)

[Hawk]

Have you tried running RRT3 in Compatibility mode?

[Orange46]

Yes

[WPandP]

Have you tried running RRT3 in Compatibility mode?

I just love it how the flagship product of Micro$oft must include an "It Should Really Work This Time" mode!

People, you should go out and buy your Core2 Duo-based iMacs, a copy of XP just for games, and set it up to dual-boot now - while you still can!

[Czar Mohab]

Honestly, and I do mean this with the utmost sincerity, I've not had as many issues with Vista as everyone else seems to be having (Klingon Academy is currently the only game I'm unable to play in Vista. One other has network issues, but I don't multi-play on that one, and a work around is available). It often deters me to read "This is a great thingamajig, does not work with Vista!"; however, I haven't found those problems in most cases. RT3 on my Vista (Home Premium) laptop played fine from a clean install, and after patching up to CtC. It did not, however, like 1.06 at first. Swapped compatability to XP SP2 and haven't had any issues since.

I went for the econo-model, with less than 1GB dedicated to actually being RAM, so I had to turn off that stupid "gadgets" thing, along with most of the features that made Vista "NEW and IMPROVED"; and alot of computer-specific programs from Acer; so maybe this has something to do with it (1st boot after that registration boot up took 10 min! I've gotten it down to 5 (Yippee!)). I honestly believe that alot of the "fluff" that came with Vista makes it not so happy with other programs from the past. Like I said, I haven't experienced this so much, but I've read alot about it, and Vista's stuff might be the real culprit.

The following quote is regarding Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates, however, it may shed some light on the RT3 situation (Note: Not everything may be relevant, but its all good stuff):

OK, concerning Vista..

Some things I have documented so far.

1. Networking is different from XP is that Vista auto adjusts your connection on the fly as you are playing. XP auto adjusts when you connect and then remains static. Vista auto configures to give best through put for online, however it starts slow, then throttles up to gain maximum speed. In a way it is superior to XP for web use and DLing things, but for gaming on something like the Dynaverse server that only sends out updates after a battle is done or when the news generates, Vista shows lag on its end.

The problem that this poses is that on a server with few players, Vista will sometimes move fast, then other times crawl.. I have not tested it yet on a full server to see how networking works.

Microsoft does have a method to turn of "Auto Tuning" to allow you to somewhat manually set Netshell in Command Prompt to increase Upload and DL capabilities in Vista.. however I have not found the reversion commands to reset it back to auto, but that is'nt really necessary if you are getting good through put.

2. Vista has a tripple (maybe quadruple) level firewall built in. Windows Firewall in XP is only Single layer.. in Vista, there are 3 adjustable firewalls that you can manage on different levels.. more levels if you have multiple user accounts.. I recommend turning off all Windows Firewall levels in Vista and use a router or a 3rd party firewall to save headaches. I have found that turning off the Firewall Service only disables 1 firewall in Vista, but does not effect the other 2 main levels, this may cause some issues with online play.

3. User Accounts. By default Vista comes with User Account Management enabled. It is considered a security feature, however games hate it tremendously. Basically your OS creates a shadow account and over lays it on your current account.. any changes you do to a game takes place in the Shadow layer and not the main layer, thus causing games to corrupt on launch, improper settings, unable to change settings via 3rd party software, etc.

Turning off User Accounts in the control panel does not mean that you remove different user accounts, what it does is shut off the auto shadow of the account and allows you to work on your main layer directly without the shadow layer hindering you.

4. Direct X. Direct X in XP will not increase past Direct X 9.0LE and will not get the capabilities of Vista's Direct X 10.1. Vista is now able to take advantage of the newest Direct X (10.1) in the Vista SP 1 Beta. XP is still waiting for Direct X 9.0 LE, which is supposedly able to make Direct X compatible between the 2 systems. However XP is still running Direct X 9.0c and there may be a direct Play issue, not with other players, but with the server itself. PVP using Vista, I have had no issues with lag or anything else.. in fact it has seemed more stable. I have only had 1 CTD in a PVP with Razaal on the Boneyard, but it was when the Directory server went down.. so I'm not sure what to attribute the CTD with.

on GSA and in TCP/IP games, I have not had any games CTD or drop. Some games I hosted, some games I just ride along.. but out of over 60 games PVP on GSA. TCP/IP, and Dynaverse, I have only had 1 CTD. this leaves a possibility of a Direct Play issure between the server and Vista based OP client. It seems more of a problem outlined in #1.

4. Compatibility Mode. on XP SFC OP will work natively without changing compatibility mode.. with some video cards, you may have to disable Visual Themes. In Vista, you have an enhanced desktop layer to make your main programs look better, sort of a psuedo HD upgrade. OP suffers random CTD when you do not disable Desktop Composition. with the newer Vid Cards and drivers for Vista, Visual Themes does not seem to hinder OP's performance, but I think it is best to disable it as well just to be safe. In Vista, Compatibility Mode actually works the way it is suppose to. As such on Vista, OP should be set to Win 2K compatibility (the platform in which it was built). game operates just fine in this mode.. in XPSP 2 mode and Vista Native modes, OP will operate, but will not shut down properly.

5. Going back to Networking. I would suggest that Vista users use the Release Candidate for the Service Pack 1. Networking is much improved, however the server lagging is still present. but you can get on the Dyna Servers fairly quickly... You can actually participate in a campaign, however I would limit Vista players to limited PVP due to lagging of the client on the server.. I would assign Vista users to mainly Hex Flipping or set a rule of 1 min 30 seconds wait time to move after a battle is complete.. this will give Vista enough time to re-sync with the server.



I am still working on getting Vista compatible with the Dyna servers.. this campaign will give me more research into the networking issue and allow me to make a Tweak CSS file for the netshell to be added for Vista players in the OP Enhancement Package and in a single download format. I need to make 2 CSS rules for netshell, OP compatibility and Normal.. this way you can reset Vista back to it's native mode, which is naturally very fast for browsing. The Tweak may have the advantage of setting your Networking to have faster throughput for Dling and Uploading, which will also increase browsing speed, however there may be applications coming out that will utilize Vista's Auto Tweaking in the future that will be invaluable to gaming on newer titles (I have seem marked performance increase using Vista in EVE in the networking under the Auto Adjust mode)..

Anyhow I hope that this sheds some light on Vista Players..

I can't say much more than this guy's a genious when it comes to these things. I might see if he could find time to poke in over here and see what help he can render. You can usually find him here.

Or, better yet, finding an XP rig at a yard sale or similar location and making it 100% games. Should be cheap enough by now.

[Hawk]

Thanks for that post Czar.
It seems though, from what I can gather from it, that the main thing relevant to RRT3 in Vista (desktop play, not multi-player) would be the Vista Themes and the compatibility mode setting.
Did I miss anything?

Edit 1: BTW! aboard!

[Bane71]

Bane here,

OK I am going to state this again, my uncle Whinney (spelling??) cannot open the self-extractor for CtC. I am going to stick to my original idea that Dell some how did something to Vista in the security settings to prevent this from working. Maybe since he refuses to listen to me one of you can emplore him to just call Dell tech support and ask them if there is a setting he needs to change to get these file types to work. As for my Vista install it is now in a chunked state meaning I just overwrote everything that I had installed on the D drive after waiting 45 minutes for Vista to verify the install of Civ III so I could uninstall it. I have decided that I want to daul boot the system with Vista for a few games and Linux for everything else. I do have RRT2 for Linux and if I can find the Loki patch I am going to install it. So there's my two cents on the Vista issue and for the record I am sick of it and all of it's retardation, I will stick with XP 64 on my tower thanks.

[Gwizz]

I'm not sure the MS help techs know how to fix this, not until Vista is fixed.
Isn't MS working on a new OS. Vista may never get fixed.

Now, I'm I being too sarcasticcccccc.

[Hawk]

Allegedly Micro$oft is due to release Vienna (Windows 7) around the end of '09 or first of '10.
Supposedly SP1 for Vista is supposed to fix a lot of the problems. That remains to be seen. 'Course I'll only know by what I read since I have no intention of installing Vista.

[Orange46]

Thanks Czar. I finally got something better than 1.00 working in Vista. Hey, it's only 1.03, but that's progress. I'll try for more in a few days.

[Grandma Ruth]

Excellent! I'm so pleased!

[Orange46]

But I can't play Crystal, yet.

[Grandma Ruth]

It's a start!

[Orange46]

You're right. Now, I've gotten 1.04 beta working. Unfortunately, CtC still doesn't.

I'm trying out my NA monster with the higher farm, mine settings and lower density that we used in Crystal. The start was easier, since I could connect a ranch to Denver and make more money that way than building to cities as in the original version. My hope was to get it to play more like the same scenario in RT2, where goods were critical and I even allowed existing industries to be purchased. (Actually, you couldn't play the RT2 version if you didn't buy the industries you were servicing, as the basic industries made more money than the trains, and the producing industries had a nasty habit of disappearing if not owned; then you would have: track to no where + no money to build more track = game over.)