Questions: How many cities, very long hauls, reserve cells

[Wooly]

I have a few questions that I can't find addressed anywhere in this forum, or with the search function.


1) In the editor you can see the ratio of trees, cities, etc, per land size. It mentions that you want to keep them balanced for good gameplay, but it doesn't give any numbers for example. What are good ratios? I have a huge map (1024 x 840) and I have 55-60 cities (most small 1-2 stars). Is that enough, too much for reasonable gameplay? Or does it really matter, will the game be just fine no matter the ratio? What about trees and graphics cards, what is a good ratio for handling that?


2) I am making a large map (1024 x 840) which includes two very large cities on opposite sides of the map, and you need to haul cargo between them specifically. I am going to use special recipe wearhouses and set supply and demand for cargo which only they supply and demand, so that you will have to haul loads between them. But then I started to wonder about how long of a haul that is, expiration times, and profits. What cargos should I use? Even though some cargos are not perishable, is there some build in time limit to ship something? What about profitbability? Will you be offered enough money to ship something that far, that when you get there you still make money...or will your profit be gone by the time you arrive?


3) I changed the city reserve subcells for many cities in my game in a certain cooridor (the Wasatch front around the Salt Lake City area). I did it because I wanted the cities to fill in (while still allow some access for building stations and maybe an industry of two), but I needed a rail coridor to get through the area. I made a strip 3 pixels wide straight through to accommodate that, but I wanted to keep my cities big in that area, so I erased many of the reserve subcells that I didn't think I would need. Cities come with a cloverleaf reserve subcell shape. I am guessing that the 4 large areas connected by slivers to the center are for building industries, and that the larger area right by the center is for stations. So I should be OK if I got rid of the industry areas away from the center...assuming I only want to build 1-2 industries. Or, am I all wrong. Is that for later industries that the computer generates as a city grows. In that case I will need to place them. Or, if I make a space big enough myself, in a configuration I choose, will they grow in. How much room (pixel x pixel) do you need to build a large station, or large industry?

[Hawk]

1) The more you add to a map, especially one that size, the more processor demand required. You also have to consider the events. The more of them you have, as well as how often they test, will also add to processor demand.

2) Maybe this thread will help you out some. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1063

3) If I'm not mistaken, even if you start deleting reserve cells the game will just add them back in. You used to be able to do that in RRT2 but I don't think you can change the reserve cells in RRT3, at least not make them stay deleted.

[Wooly]

Thanks for your help Hawk,

In question one, about city numbers per map size, I was wondering more about supply and demand, city density, things like that. Will the gameplay seem right with that ratio of cities to land area? In the editor it mentions using a good ratio, but then it never actually gives a value. I was wondering if anyone had an idea of a range of good ratio values, or what is good for a 1024 x 840 map?

And that is a shame about the reserve cells propagating again on their own. That changes things considerably for me, I have to change my route now. I wonder if that was one of the things left out in haste when they were rushing the game out for sale.

[Hawk]

Don't hold me to the reserve cells issue. Test it for yourself. You can't hurt anything. Just save the map with a different name.

BTW! It's best to save the map with different names as you progress with your creating. Otherwise you could start loosing any coloring you did to the terrain.

[Canadian Viking]

Wooly, you can change the reserve cells and the changes will stay as you save them. I've done that for cities that I place in river valleys where the only track routes into the city do not line up with the 4 arms of the cross of reserved cells. If you want to see samples, load Building to Buffalo in your editor and look at the reserved cells for some of the cities in western Pennsylvania.

I believe the 4 large bulbs at the end of each arm are to give room for the track to turn and head in a different direction; I don't think industries will be able to locate in them. The large cluster of reserved cells in the center save space for a station to be built.

Just be aware that if you need to shift a city location slightly, the reserve cells remain after you bull-doze the city unless you specifically eliminate them. And when you plant a city location, new reserve cells are automatically generated even if there are already cells left there from a former city.

If you want your cities to fill in more densely, perhaps you could eliminate the east-west spokes and bulbs on many of your cities, since the Wasatch corridor runs primarily north-south. Even the north-south bulbs could be slimmed down if there is no reason for the tracks to change direction in those areas.

Regarding special cargos between your two large cities, I did something similar in Building to Buffalo and I chose to use coffee (available only on the east coast) and rice (available only at Lake Erie ports). I used docks to create a demand for the cargo from the opposite side of the map, although warehouses will work just as well.

I used those two commodities because:
1) They are not naturally produced in the map area;
2) They are not part of an industrial chain (like iron, which produces steel, which produces goods).

Great Northern does something similar also using coffee and another cargo which I forget at the moment.

I found that the value of the shipments was high, but it takes more than one year for a train to cross the map. During that time the delivery value does not drop a lot (it probably would if you used milk or meat) but the train's operating expenses increase so that the run is not greatly profitable. You will likely have to experiment with that to see how it works out on your map. If you want the run to be more profitable, you could try using an event to increase the price of your special commodities and see if that helps.

Good luck with your project, and I hope this info helps.

[Wooly]

Thank you very much Canadian Viking,

With the reserve cells, that is exactly what I was trying to do, have one rail coridor north south along the Wasatch Front, and let the cities grow in right next to each other. I can just get rid of many city reserve cells now.

And thanks for the information about long hauling. I am trying to make the map encourage shipping along the real rail lines of the UP, SF, Denver & Rio Grande, etc. So I placed Las Vegas, Denver, and San Francisco at the edge of my large map. They are by far the biggest cities in the game, and they are isolated, so you will have to run routes between them and establish a main line like in real life. Most of the freight running through Utah and the Wasatch are just traveling through I think, not meant for here.

[JayEff]

You can add reserve cells but you can't prevent cities from regenerating their cloverleaf. They do that automatically, again and again. They make the room that you need to build a large station oriented east-west or north south near the city center.

If you want a compact city you can place the city marker and set it for a low density, then place houses where you want near the center of town, but off the squares you need to place stations in the direction the railway is going. You could place buildings (homes, industries or support buildings) on the reserve squares that will not be needed. You can place them on river bank squares before the river is placed if you want a compact riverside city. You can also place buildings where seeding is difficult, like on an irregular coastline or in steep terrain.

With trees I place as few as I think I can get away with that the scenery will not be too bare.

Regarding city number and density, I try to make a map with a balance between hinterland (regions) dominated by raw industry (mines, farms, logging) and cities that are dominated by secondary industry (mills, factories). I find that maps work best when the supplies and demands are about equal. I will tinker with the densities of logging camps, pulp mills and lumber mills until there is parity between supply and demand at each stage in a chain. If there is a dramatic shortage or glut of a cargo, there will be a dramatic effect on the mapwide price.

Choose few larger cities or many smaller cities in accordance with what you want the map to be about. Is it about connecting all the whistle stops or connecting the major cities? I think for a map that size, 60 cities should be the minimum, unless you want to highlight the wide open spaces...

[Wooly]

Well, Canadian Viking, I pulled up your Building to Buffalo map, and it appears that Jay is right. The reserve cells seem to have repropogated even when you deleted them. Check out the NYC area. It appears that you tried to make a few reserve coridors for bridges and such, but you can see the original cloverleaf pattern still there in places I would bet you had deleted. The only place it seemed to work was when a cloverleaf is over an ocean/lake. They don't seem to come back there. Correct me if I am wrong though.

[Hawk]

I was a little frustrated by that myself. I tried several times to set up custom reserve cells and it just wouldn't work right. The basic cloverleaf kept coming back.
Thanks for confirming my experience JayEff. I was depending on my memory and it ain't quite what it used to be.

[Canadian Viking]

You're right, Wooly. I had deleted quite a few reserved cells in the metro New York area so that the cities would grow in a condensed form. And I wanted Manhattan Island to look like it was densely built up, even though clear channels are needed for a player to lay his track. I see that the extra cells which I reserved are still there, but the cities have regenerated their clover leafs. When there are so many cities closed together, it makes for too many reserved cells. Bummer. One more thing to add to the wish list for RT4!

If you want to preplant some buildings, I like JayEff's idea of placing them on unneeded reserve cells.

[JayEff]

If you want to preplant some buildings, I like JayEff's idea of placing them on unneeded reserve cells.

These are also good places for the player to put their own built industries with favourable locations next to the station, it makes room for the hospitality industries and the new rail yard structures that are being made now.