New building brainstorm

[bombardiere]

Any help would be appreciated.

I understand that you have learned a lot about editing buildings and locos. (Hexediting too) As I mentioned before, a long time ago Pjay mapped all the files. I sadly don’t have these files in electronic format and I can’t send these to you, but perhaps someone else have these. I don’t remember the files by my heart, but there would be right locations and lines, which need to be changed to get the buildings to be buildable in the game. (a simple byte change if I remember correctly.)

With the files and couple helpful tips with hexeditor, I think you are there.

[WPandP]

Thanks Bombadiere for your encouragement. It's somewhat frustrating, though, to know how close I probably am, yet still can't figure it out! Where, oh where, is Pjay?

It seems to me, though, that I have been able to get things to function only as houses or as industries, that is, if it has fractional demands then it is a non-buildable house, but if it is buildable then the game engine expects it to have whole-number demands. This might be a hard limit to the game, meaning this whole excercise is fruitless. Or, if not fruitless, then it just shows that a fractional-demand "Yard" would only be editor-buildable, relegating it to approximately the same status as warehouses and their scenario-specific formulae.

I'm still hoping that Milo or somebody can crack the 3DP code and turn me loose with new models! I long to see a true Grain Elevator with its towering silos, among other things.

[bombardiere]

Yes, to me it sounds that you are close. You just need those bloody files.

It seems to me, though, that I have been able to get things to function only as houses or as industries, that is, if it has fractional demands then it is a non-buildable house, but if it is buildable then the game engine expects it to have whole-number demands. This might be a hard limit to the game, meaning this whole excercise is fruitless. Or, if not fruitless, then it just shows that a fractional-demand "Yard" would only be editor-buildable, relegating it to approximately the same status as warehouses and their scenario-specific formulae.

This is interesting. It may very well be that the industry only accept whole-numbers. It would have certain logic. In theory house could be set as buildable, it is a simple yes or no byte. (I think) But does it work in the game, I don't know. If I have time during the weekend, I could try some minor tests. But I warn you, I am loco expert. It was Pure Al who understood the buildings best. But he hasn't been here since summer.

[milo]

I have buildable fractional-demand buildings. Sole problem I've seen so far is that their production pages round off to the nearest integer, so the building ends up requiring 0 machinery when it should take .1 machinery.

Bloody files on their way as soon as I get 1.06 finished and out.

[WPandP]

I came back to this whole Fractional-Demand-Yard project last night, and not only have a found a decent building to skin (the Tudor Large Station has a long wooden platform that can be skinned as tracks, with all the rest made invisible), but I've got it working as an in-game buildable lineside structure. And it works as an effective relay point for loads... it generates enough demand to keep the loads flowing, but not so much demand that it surpasses the final delivery point!

I won't have a lot of time to develop this further, but I do want to create about five different types of Yards based on this premise. See my initial posts. The one I created last night was called a HopperYard, and it works for Bauxite, Coal, and Iron. You would use these as relay points along a long delivery route, say going from A to C. You build a HopperYard (for $200k) at B, assuming that the mine is at A and the mill is at C. The value should soon go to something like $45 at A, $55 at B, and $64 at C (that is what I saw in my testing last night). Thus, instead of running one train that goes from A to C and makes $19 per trip/load, you can run two trains that make $10 and $9, but deliver twice as often.

A real benefit of this would be to break up the route into operating districts, where geography dictates different classes of locomotive. A to B might be hilly and thus require a shay or articulated steam, while B to C might be flatter and favor sprinters.

If you have a bunch of these yards in a series, say A-B-C-D-E where B-C-D are yards, then theoretically the differential between B,C, and D would be very minimal and only reflect differences among supply at each. Thus, you could still reach a saturation point where loads flow from A to B but no further... until, that is, the oversupply at B causes its price to drop below C, and loads move along down the chain. Of course, the transfer runs between yards are not as likely to make much money, so you might want to limit how many yards you build.

I'm sorry I don't have screenshots or downloadable content yet, but I just wanted to report that it does indeed work! More to come later.

[WPandP]

Okay, so here's some screenies and a download for you, if you want to give this a try:

http://wpandp.com/RRT3/HopperYard1.jpg
Shows the "0 per year" demand which is really a tiny fraction per year; also shows how you can sometimes get it to place at an angle to the track, which is a bit more yard-like...

http://wpandp.com/RRT3/HopperYard2.jpg
Shows the basic 2-track skin that I used, based on the Tudor Large Station's wood platform

http://wpandp.com/RRT3/HopperYard.zip
The MOD itself; download and install!

http://wpandp.com/RRT3/ReadMeHopYard.txt
Read it.

[wsherrick]

okay, I have downloaded this and when placed by a station it reads as a restaraunt placement, is that what it does with you. I haven't had time to try it out yet, but will today or tomorrow.

[WPandP]

As a class of building, it is treated the same as the restaurant/hotel/etc. in order to make it available to all scenarios as well as make it be buildable. I don't know whether this will affect express cargo rates, though... I don't know whether a restaurant adds to the "ticket price" passengers pay, or if it just generates revenue by operating as an industry type. I think it is fine for it to report to the game engine as if it were a restaurant, it just won't have any restaurant-ish effects.

The best kind of scenario to test this out on is one in which the raw material (say, coal) has zero value at its source and across much of the map, with a value spike only in a remote corner. The yard will create a lesser "hot spot" so that the coal can be moved. My own PastonValleyLines scenario (on my web page) is one such scenario, in which I tried to create a similar effect using warehouse recipes. Feel free to use the editor to remove the coal-marshall warehouses, and try using this Yard instead.

[Wooly]

WPandP, you have given me new hope in RT3. Without the ability to get certain commodities to be moved by different train routes this game has been a disappointment in many ways. But if this patch allows me to recreate the drop shipment method (or similar) of RT2, than I might be back in business. I play this game to move freight and run industries with my railroads. I am a no passenger or mail kind of player. You can see my predicament.

Thank you for your time and effort. I will test it when I get a chance over the next week or two, but I am pretty new to RT3, and I may not be able to give you informed feedback.

[Hawk]

Actually, you can install the UnOfficial 1.06 patch and in conjunction with WP's addition you should be able to get what you're looking for.
The 1.06 patch adds the functionality of drop shipping, although it works slightly different than in RRT2, it still works.

[Wooly]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have read about this patch/version, and I will try it out. I have been having some install issue with Vista, so I have been trying to figure that out first, before I add patches. Plus, I think the 1.06 patch may not run with Vista, right? I have an older comp with XP on it, but I don't use it much, but I may have to resort to that. I can get the game to install on my work laptop which has Vista (including the CtoC and 1.05 versions), but I can't get it to install on my home PC with Vista. Go figure! I will get the patch thing figured out eventually. This forum, and the Terminal, has helped a lot.

How does the drop shipping work with the 1.06 patch? That will revolutionize things for me on RT3. And if these "collection buildings/stations" which WP&P has made work, then I can play the game how I really want to. I can make a "collection building/stations" near my resource, run trains to it, and have other trains move the resource to its next destination. That almost sounds too much like real railways, eh? For the life of me I can't figure out why PopTop didn't make this an explicit option in all versions of the game. But then maybe there is a good reason I don't know about.

[WPandP]

I've cobbled together a "StockYard" building as well, which has a fractional demand for Livestock and a real demand for Corn. It works, and it looks decent, but I'm still trying to determine what the best demand level is for these Yard-type buildings.

I started by basing everything on the fractional demand of a house, i.e. approximately 0.03 per year for a given commodity. This is enough to start cargo flowing, but later in the game when demand has propogated across the entire map, it doesn't affect the cargo values much. So, I'm going to keep toying around with it, as I can probably try any value between 0.01 and 0.49; any higher than this, and it starts behaving as a consuming industry - it might fail to "release" the cargo to move along down the line to the next stop.

Another thing I am seeing is that it is still better to place a large station near the cargo's origination point, rather than use a Yard. The station's capture radius will include loads that are on the move; the Yard won't keep loads from moving on their own, so a small station plus a Yard won't detain loads for you. If I play with the demand amount and get that right, perhaps the Yard will detain things a bit, but really all it is doing is attracting loads towards it. Once the load arrives at the Yard, it may want to continue on down your line towards the consumer.

As far as 1.06's drop shipping goes, skillful deployment of Yards should reduce the need to utilize it. But you still might need it, if you have a delivery chain from Yard to Yard to Yard, as the cargo values fluctuate at each one, in order to ensure that the traffic flows in the right direction.