New Building available! Comments welcomed

[WPandP]

I have posted an updated version of the Cereal Company on my web page. If you already have it downloaded, you only need to grab the revised BCA file. I changed the formula to be 1a + 1b = 1c, and I set the maximum loads per year to 3 instead of 4. This should make it a little less over-the-top profitable, but give this version a tryout and see if it still needs to be toned down somehow.

[Grandma Ruth]

Ran a few tests on the latest one, looking good!
This one doesn't start till 1880, then it's corn + sugar, changes to include grain + sugar. There is a period when it will accept both sets of cargoes.
I ran tests with the same scenario starting 1890, 1925 and 1940.

Profits much the same in all eras, strangely enough. I upgraded in each case as soon as I had a couple of profitable years. I wasn't trying too hard - trying to simulate a normal scenario when this wouldn't be the main focus.

Upgraded building makes from 600 to almost 800 profit, mostly around 650. Pretty good but not outrageously easy - and you do need to run a train. It will make a profit on its own but not as much as, say, a lumber mill. Comparison here:

viewtopic.php?p=6956#6956

[belbincolne]

I know I'm dim - I've downloaded this and managed to find the info as to where to put them (there's no promised ReadMe) but if I now install the files
(1) will these be available in every scenario?
(2) I assume there's no likliehood of them causing a problem with patch 6 installed?
(3) I'm not too clear what is needed for it be worth building. Corn and sugar to start with, then later wheat and sugar - but does this mean that if there's only corn and sugar it becomes useless unless I can rail the wheat in?

[Grandma Ruth]

Belbincolne, I'll try and answer your questions:
1. It depends what you mean by "available" - it will be available in the Editor and in any scenario where the writer has made it available. I don't think it will appear anywhere else unless there's some pixie magic going on I don't know about.
2. It's not a problem with 1.06, which is what I've got.
3. Don't understand your banter on this one, old chap! It starts out where one corn and one sugar makes one goods, then later it adds to that another option where one grain and one sugar makes one goods (so at this point you've got two things going on), then a bit later it drops the first mixture and you end up with just the grain and sugar. So you always need sugar, but sometimes you need corn and sometimes you need grain. Does that help? I don't understand the question! :? :?
Edit: If you've only got corn and sugar and it's somewhere in the 1930's (don't know exactly when it changes) then yes, it wouldn't make anything. But unless you deliberately made it so, no map is going to have corn but not grain - maybe grain but not corn, which would be sensible for England as they're talking about American corn here, obviously - so I shouldn't worry! :D

[belbincolne]

1. If I've got to go into Editor and add for each scenario I might want it in I don't think I'll bother.
3. I'm obviously right - it just seemed odd that it should drop the corn.

Hasn't the last couple of days been appalling? Had family with me otherwise the only thing I could do would be to play RT3 :D :D

[Grandma Ruth]

I've just done as little as possible this weekend! Not strayed far from the computer, if truth be told.

[Wooly]

How is the cereal buiding, is it still stuck on 1+1=2 production values? I want to use this building in the map I am making. If the values don't work though, if they screw up supply and demand, I may not be able to use it.

[WPandP]

I need to go back and revisit this building; I haven't toyed with it in a while. I think where I left off, it was producing at 1+1=1, to be more reasonable, and I think that even at that level it was still a gold mine if you kept feeding it the right cargoes. But then, so is a Steel Mill, so perhaps it is at the right point now.

However, I have learned in the meanwhile how to tidy up things in neat PK4 files, so I do want to at least re-package the thing. You should feel free to go ahead and use it in your scenario; I would only be tweaking the BCA file from here on out, which isn't even part of the PK4 file and can be easily replaced. In fact, I'd been hoping that someone would script a scenario around this building, to test whether it "feels" right for gameplay - the feedback could help me finalize its specs.

Regardless, you don't need to worry about it "screwing up supply and demand". The only issue is how profitable the industry itself is, and if you feel that it's over the top, you can always prohibit industry purchases in the scenario. If, at the last minute, you decide you don't want to incorporate them, you can just use a Warehouse recipe instead.

[Wooly]

Yeah, this building doesn't work for me either. WP&P, you may be right that modded files may not work with Vista. It really pisses me off. But seeing how this is a work laptop, and I didn't purchase it, I can't do much about it. I just need to get my old XP PC up and running this week. I will try them out then.

[Wooly]

Well, I tested it out with a few different controls, and the building works as indicated.

First, my problems with this mod using v1.05 on Vista Home were easily solved. As you mentioned in a post, I had to actually go into the editor of any map I wanted to use, and make sure the building was selected as available. Once I did that, everything worked fine. I was able to place and generate the cereal building during a game, and not just in the editor. I then installed the game on my XP machine that I got running last night. Everything works fine on XP.

The building worked, but it was hard to tell if it was too profitable or not. In my games the building was not very profitable at all. But I was using it in a complex economy with lots of other cargoes and industries around. I did ship a ton of demanded cargoes (and hauled goods away) to it without making much money, but sugar was in very short supply, and I couldn't tell how much was getting there or not.I ran the scenario for 10 years and the building broke even over that time, with years it made a lot and years where it lost money. It was hit and miss.

I need to try it in a very isolated and controlled situation to see if it makes too much money when supplied ideally without other confounding economic factors. I will let you know.

[coruscate]

I wish adding new stock was this "easy" in the game.

The only thing that doesn't show up for me is the nice looking graphic at the bottom, otherwise the thing shows up and operates as stated. I don't know if I will use it for my level but I will strongly consider it.

I am using the other three though!

EDIT: I have an idea. "Cheese" is a pretty ****** specific freight, right? How about a mod that changes "cheese" to "food" like we had it then just adjust your factory to produce the renamed cheese?

[coruscate]

Having worked with all these different buildings, I think your building would work a lot better if it produced "cheese" instead of goods, too many possible building additions to the map use goods, and that of course includes the whole metal and plastic chain. Cheese is only made by one industry, but demanded by everyone. If it would compete too much with the cheese factory, we could always turn down the productivity of that beast. This would also open us up to produce + aluminum = "canned" (cheese) goods. Since cheese is expensive, low productivity could be used to offset each industry so they don't become instant cash cows.

[Wolverine@MSU]

How about a building that uses one milk and one chemicals to produce 1 Velveeta?

[coruscate]

You mean change the dairy processor so that it requires chemicals to make the cheese combination? That can easily be done. In fact I wanted to reply to this topic anyway to suggest that the cereal factory could be programmed to eat up more of it's base materials to make cheese so that it isn't as profitable and doesn't flood the map with "food." This would also make it so that the cereal factory has to be supplied very well to be profitable, it'll take more than 2 farms to keep that sucker going, as well as it should. A real cereal factory would just chew through acreage of materials...

[coruscate]

Try these settings, or a higher number.

The formulas that only require 1 of each.
Rice, Grain, Corn, Sugar
makes cheese: .35 3333B33E

Then up the demand to two apiece.
Grain, sugar
makes cheese: .7 3333333f

This makes it profitable to the tune of 37k if fully supplied and everything it eats is hauled off. I'm working on a Cannery right now, getting that sucker rigged right is going to be "fun." I'm going to have it appear from the start of the game, and turn meat or produce into "cheese." It will demand iron for a mix in 1846, then heavy steel, lighter steel in 1898, and then aluminum in 1957. Waste of course, gets produced. Will I be able to make an eleven entry BCA? (The game doesn't like ten entry BCAs for some odd reason, but will accept 21).

[Wolverine@MSU]

How about a building that uses one milk and one chemicals to produce 1 Velveeta?

You mean change the dairy processor so that it requires chemicals to make the cheese combination? That can easily be done.

Coru: Lighten up!!!!!!! This was meant as a sarcastic comment about the popular "pasturized processed cheese substitute". I think it's wonderful that you are so passionate about this quest, but sometimes you have to sit back and be able to have a laugh. When you get all (or most) of your buildings in a final form, it would be nice to package them together in a ZIP (or RAR in your case) file along with a single PK4 file of the graphics. I'ld be glad to help on this one.

[nedfumpkin]

I tried follo wing this thread through, but I figured it would be easier to catch me up on what's outstanding since I can't figure it out...

Most of the industry/cargo thoughts expressed here are exactly what I am working on in "Trainmaster."

I have the cereal company working fine, all graphics, etc (It's a ****** nice building) and I have it as clean DDS files. If anyone is having trouble with the skin, I have it fine so let me know and I will send it along. The cargo system for it is different since the "food" commodity is produced to represent all processed/manufactured foods.

[WPandP]

I understand Coru's suggestion to use "cheese" as the generic processed food category, since the demand for Cheese is already built into all the houses and perhaps other buildings. But I greatly prefer the introduction of "food" as a new cargo; it isn't really all that new, since the assets for it seem to have been created by PopTop but then for some reason abandoned. NedF, I'd like to see your revision of my Cereal Factory, can you post it or email me files? I suppose for those that don't intend to install a "food" cargo, there might still need to be a version of the Cereal Factory that produces either cheese or goods.

I initially chose goods because cheese seems to be perishable and should ride in reefers, while a cereal factory wouldn't generate reefer carloads. But Food could travel in regular boxcars, I guess; once it's canned or sealed in plastic, it's good to go!

[nedfumpkin]

Actually, I was thinking of cardboard boxes :)

(sent all the files via e-mail)

[coruscate]

Well we don't have your mod right now 8p

Funny thing is I spend more time modding this thing then playing it.

I'm going to have to find your cargo list again though....