TM versus RRT3 1.06

[arop]

At last I have installed TM succesfully and I have had a look in the editor comparing TM with rrt3 1.06: I like the new buildings and the fact that canneries and glass industry is back in the game (since RRT1), so produce doesn't necesarely has to be transformed into alcohol, I like Wineryes, but there are something that keeps me off from trying to build some new maps I orginally intended to do. First of all I like the concept of farms accepting some freight and express, almost acting as small villages, but I find the choices between the different types of farm communities are to few and too unflexible, compared with RRT 1.06, giving the mapmaker to little fredom to set up the character of the area's farming, such as the differences in crops related to different climatical conditions. I would have prefered the original RRT3 ones accepting some different goods and a little mail and passengers. Another thing I miss so very much is the ore mines, I would prefer ore mines from gold mines: Ore mines could produce 1.2 copper, 0.6 zinc and 0.2 gold while gold is sparse and often a by-product from mining other more common sort of minerals. (Gold should be accepted by banks only, I think the casinos should be removed). I don't like electronics being produced from steel or aluminium. Bauxite mines should be changed to open quarries, as they almost always are in the real world (can be seen from satelite in Jamaica, Google Maps). At last: I miss rock quarries (limestone) being transformed into concrete (cement) at concrete (cement) plants. I think that 2 rock (limestone) + 1 coal should be = 2 cement and maybe some waste from the production, while the energy consumption is heavy producing cement. I like the 1.06 concept of construction firms in the cities accepting steel, ceramics and cement. I won't forget, that you are doing a great work, though I don't agree with all parts of your game concept .

[thietavu]

Yes, the farms could be more different, I agree. For example, one type could produce rice and meat (like in Southern Asia), another would make grain, meat and milk (like common in e.g. Scandinavia) and the third one possibly fish and maybe grain (!) as kind of a fishing village.

Fish would spoil very fast, adding a new element to the game.

I also think I agree about ore and gold.

Making changes would mean a lot of efforts and even re-designing some maps, so I doubt they will happen. But it is always fun to think of improvements, even to as fantastic game as TM already is! :)

[edbangor]

I have to admit that from a scenario creator's point of view, the lack of the cement supply chain, was a disappointment when I started working in TM, as for most of my maps, Cement would have been a logical thing to be demanded.

However, I do like the farm structure the way Ned has it, and feel that the combinations of what farms could produce is an endless debate, given the various time periods and countries the game covers.

Of course, as I think I've produced the most maps for TM apart from Ned, the idea of having to go over them all again to rebalance the cargoes so others can be introduced would drive me followed by and I hate to think what it would do to Ned.

[Blackhawk]

You can always use events to vary the amount of one good a farm produces. If you don't want hemp from the farms then create an event reducing the amount of hemp produced, or if you want more produce, use an event for that. Just let the player know in the briefing or a message to not expect this good from these farms.

[nedfumpkin]

Blackhawk has it right on the agri-communities. They are designed so that, first, they are communities, but second, using an event to determine what it will produce was a big part of the design. You can also create territories around the agri-communities and control their production that way.

As for cement, well, I personally wasn't a big fan of it because it tends to come in cement trucks..but TM has the military stuff instead. Nukes!

[arop]

Personally I find cement and construction materials more relevant by rail than nuclear misiles and other sorts of military goods, unless someone is playing a war game, which I very seldom do. I still prefer copper/ingots from steel and aluminium for electrical cords in the electronic industry. I like to hear, that it is possible to adjust the output from farming communities, then it's just a question how to do it without knowing anything about programming. I hope you find my criticism positive, while I intend to be that way . I don't think I'm ready to make maps for TM by now, but if someone likes some of my rrt maps, I'll promise, that I have no objections against, if someone wants to use them for TM purposes, while I find all my maps published on this site as public domaine and will claim no copyright .

[Capn Twisted]

I gotta say, this has me prety excited, been ages since I have been around, just not on the internet much anymore so stopped paying for it for a while. I have to say thanks a PILE for all the people whose hard work and dedication to the game made this possible... there are not enough words to describe how grateful I am.

[RobbersBaron]

Military Weapons to me would be nice if we could use em' to hit enemy RRs in a nation my nation is at war with

Isnt there a limit of roughly 52 differnt types of Cargos per game? (I acually got away with a few more than that so I'm not sure thats the right number). To be able to have a complete cargo list you will either have to only have a truely realistic cargo rank for a couple of different resouces with the rest being incomplete. Otherwise the TM and RRT3 cant handle it from my understanding unless there are some major changed to allow it to do so wo/crashing the game(and yes I have crashed my game from this effect).

[Blackhawk]

There is a limit to the number of cargoes that there can be. I forget the exact number though. TM has a few different cargoes than RT3 1.06 and as far as I know it has as many cargoes as it can have without crashing.

Military Weapons to me would be nice if we could use em' to hit enemy RRs in a nation my nation is at war with

If you have an AI player that already has his track and stations built you could use territories around certain track/stations and use an event to destroy them after you ship enough weapons.

[RobbersBaron]

There is a limit to the number of cargoes that there can be. I forget the exact number though. TM has a few different cargoes than RT3 1.06 and as far as I know it has as many cargoes as it can have without crashing.

Military Weapons to me would be nice if we could use em' to hit enemy RRs in a nation my nation is at war with

If you have an AI player that already has his track and stations built you could use territories around certain track/stations and use an event to destroy them after you ship enough weapons.

Yes yes but I'm talking about something so you can see em' go bye bye... Ah well... Anyways Idk how many cargos RRT3 has but I'm pretty sure theres 60+ Types in TM v1.1 (roughly 50-56 per game max to avoid crashing)

[Blackhawk]

Reviewing an old PM to someone I discovered that I had made a cargo chart at one time of the cargoes in TM.

I think I came up with there being 49 freight cargoes, and then passengers,troops, and mail for a total of 52 cargoes.

[nedfumpkin]

There are 52 commodities. This is in fact the maximum. It is as Blackhawk says...49 freight, 3 express.

That different commodites are listed in the supply chain guide.

[RobbersBaron]

Reviewing an old PM to someone I discovered that I had made a cargo chart at one time of the cargoes in TM.

I think I came up with there being 49 freight cargoes, and then passengers,troops, and mail for a total of 52 cargoes.

is that the amount of ALL the different types or only the amount the game can handle cuss I am almost 100% positive I have been able to go over that #. Either that I am loosing my head.

Well I'ma gona dig through the cargo files and try to count em' up...

*5 Mins later*

meself I was wrong. But that doesnt explain why my own version of the Missippippi wagon strike crashed on meh... (I original thought I may have used too many cargo but that would appear not possible unless somehow i ended up with a redundant cargo...

[Blackhawk]

Attached is chart of the 52 cargoes in TM. There is also the TM supply chain guide that can be downloaded which gives a list of each cargo and how they interact.

[milo]

It may be possible to 'skin' cargoes, much the way locomotives are skinnable. I never got it working stably during 1.06 testing, but in theory RT3's just limited to 52 distinct cargoes per scenario.

[nedfumpkin]

Hey Milo, nice to see you back. I'm interested in what you are referring to with cargo skinning. TM is exteremely robust and so far nobody, who has it installed correctly. has reported and stability issues.

[OnlySteam]

I know it's more then a year old thread but I would like to add to the suggestions made regarding supply chain, why isn't gold supplied to the electronics industry? Electronics use a lot of gold, not only in the semiconductors industry but also in consumer and military electronics, and don't forget the vast computers elrctronics industry, just look inside your PC, CPU, add on cards and memory contacts, it's all gold.

[nedfumpkin]

Gold was a component in electronics but was removed so that cargo recipes would display properly.

[OnlySteam]

Thanks for the info.

I have a question regarding the title of this thread, should I also play RRT3 1.06 ? I joined this forum in the process of moving from RRT3 which I've played a lot to Trainmasters, but I see a lot of stuff is really new in 1.06 but is it really an evolved RRT3 or a patched one?

Thanks

[nedfumpkin]

Install 1.06 separately, and play those maps for sure. 1.06 is a mod for RT3 and it has a lot of maps to play. A lot of TM was built upon 1.06.