Just a quick update.
Test plays are continuing with several 'issues' having already been fixed, most noticeable of which was the wrong positioning of the 'Warrington' Territory, (I must have moved one of the stations at some point) and changing the oceans around Anglesea to a large river so it can be crossed without suspension bridges.
Plus many other minor things and one major one that I'm not going to talk about as it's so embarrassing, that I still make that mistake after all the maps I've done.
Other than those everything, so far, is working well, but there's a 'dull' patch in the game that I'm going to need to fill with an extra challenge as don't want the player getting bored!!
Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" (CA02)
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
This sounds like a really interesting game and map, how close is it to release, even just for testing or beta or whatever your plan is?
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
When it is finished, save it as a campaign map as CA02.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
I've play tested about half way through so far, fixing things, and adding things as I go.Kiev the Great wrote:This sounds like a really interesting game and map, how close is it to release, even just for testing or beta or whatever your plan is?
Once I've reached the end I'm thinking of releasing a beta map, so others can play test and see what scores they get (the victories are ponts based) before I put in the final medal requirements.
That though won't be for a few days yet, as naturally play tests are taking longer to do, and I've not reached the most 'active' part of the game yet.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
Not a problem, take all the time that you need. Hopefully by then I will have some videos made and stuff.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
Okay hit something of a problem.
As you may remember, the theme of the scenario - and the name - is to make Wire in Warrington. For that, you need to bring Steel over from Sheffield in set amounts to be able to gain - or loose points.
So for that aim I've disabled anyone building Steel Mills in the INDUSTRY OVERALL tab and set up an EVENT to drop them into Sheffield at the correct time.
That all works but for one thing.
With Steel Mills disabled, the game removes Steel as a cargo even after the steel mills in Sheffield are placed.
Now, how do I get Steel back as a cargo without the player being able to build one right outside Warrington.
As you may remember, the theme of the scenario - and the name - is to make Wire in Warrington. For that, you need to bring Steel over from Sheffield in set amounts to be able to gain - or loose points.
So for that aim I've disabled anyone building Steel Mills in the INDUSTRY OVERALL tab and set up an EVENT to drop them into Sheffield at the correct time.
That all works but for one thing.
With Steel Mills disabled, the game removes Steel as a cargo even after the steel mills in Sheffield are placed.
Now, how do I get Steel back as a cargo without the player being able to build one right outside Warrington.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
I don't think you can. I ran into the same issue with Sugar Refineries on The Juice Train. I didn't want the player to be able to build more of them, but disabling them from being build turned off sugar as a cargo. So my alternatives were either allow them to be built anywhere, or disable the ability to build any industry.
While not the perfect solution you could always make Sheffield it's own territory, and require a certain amount of steel gets shipped out of that territory, in addition to a certain amount of steel being shipped into Warrington. I haven't looked at the map recently so I don't know how many industries in the area will be demanding steel, but roughly factor in how much steel will be used for surrounding industries and how much would be shipped to Warrington and use that to create an objective/requirement of shipping XX amount of loads of steel out of Sheffield. Or require all the steel from Sheffield be sent to Warrington, and for any other industries that require steel, the player can build his new steel mill elsewhere.
Of course this can be circumvented by picking up steel from Sheffield and dropping it off at a nearby city, then bringing it back to Sheffield and repeating, but with most cargo hauled requirements the player can always cheat if he really wants to.
While not the perfect solution you could always make Sheffield it's own territory, and require a certain amount of steel gets shipped out of that territory, in addition to a certain amount of steel being shipped into Warrington. I haven't looked at the map recently so I don't know how many industries in the area will be demanding steel, but roughly factor in how much steel will be used for surrounding industries and how much would be shipped to Warrington and use that to create an objective/requirement of shipping XX amount of loads of steel out of Sheffield. Or require all the steel from Sheffield be sent to Warrington, and for any other industries that require steel, the player can build his new steel mill elsewhere.
Of course this can be circumvented by picking up steel from Sheffield and dropping it off at a nearby city, then bringing it back to Sheffield and repeating, but with most cargo hauled requirements the player can always cheat if he really wants to.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
I was thinking about it some more and if you have a couple variables left you may be able to use those and make a more in depth/complicated approach which may achieve something similar. Here's where this post gets complicated so hopefully I've explained it decently.
Variables will be set by event as:
V1 = YTD Steel hauled to terr by company (Warrington)
V2 = YTD steel hauled from terr by company (Sheffield)
V2- V1 = V3 [I'll call it V3 here, but in reality it would probably just be reusing V2]
If V3 < "X" Then induce some sort of penalty.
I don't know how much a steel mill puts out of steel versus fertilizer, but hypothetically we'll say the steel mill makes 10 loads of steel.
We'll want to haul those 10 loads of steel out of Sheffield and send them either to Warrington (or potentially some other industry) Either way the steel will leave Sheffield. = V2 the company will remove them from the city/territory. At this point we'll say the player ships all the steel out of Sheffield that he can, all 10 loads.
The company will also want to send steel to Warrington, whether it's from Sheffield, or a steel plant build right outside Warrington. So we'll use V1 to represent how much steel Warrington has received this year.
So right now we have the following equation depending on how much steel the player sends to Warrington:
V2 (10) - V1 (?) = ??
If the player ships all the steel from Sheffield to Warrington: we'll have V2 (10) - V1 (10) = V3 (0)
But if it player ships only some of the steel from Sheffield to Warrington, and uses some other steel elsewhere maybe it'll look something like:
V2 (10) - V1 (5) = V3 (5)
If the player uses a second Steel mill to supplement production from Sheffield it could look something like:
V2 (10) - V1 (20) = V3 (-10)
[If the player is using 2 steel mills though but not supplementing production he could get around this event limitation. Steel from Sheffield may be used for nearby industries, but a steel mill right outside of Warrington could be supplying Warrington, which is a somewhat complicated way of getting around this event/limitation, but it would take careful planning by the player to make sure he doesn't over-haul steel into Warrington.]
And if the player neglects the steel industry in Warrington and just builds a steel mill outside Warrington:
V2 (0) - V1 (10) = V3 (-10)
Then figure out "X" which would be an approximate number that gives the player some "leeway" for any trains that may be in route between Sheffield and Warrington, assuming you'll give them leeway for stopping at cities along the way, unless you'll require them to be direct non-stop trains in which case, little to no "leeway" would need to be granted.
Let's say we'll allow for 1 train full of steel as leeway to have stopped somewhere outside of Sheffield but before Warrington and it might haul 5 loads of steel. So now we need to set "X" Since we'll allow 5 "extra" carloads of steel to Warrington, we'll set "X" as -5.
Then If V3 < -5 (X) ... some penalty is imposed .... since hypothetically you are shipping in steel from outside of Sheffield which is inferior steel.
I think trains for loads hauled from a territory only count once they finally arrive at a station somewhere else. So if you tell the player he must use non-stop trains from Sheffield to Warrington or "risk" being fined for delayed/inferior/damaged steel, you could probably just make the X value, -1 (to give a minimal amount of leeway for any cargo loss in transit.)
Then if V3 < -1 This gives the player much less leeway and makes it much more difficult for them to estimate how much steel they'll be able to take from Sheffield for local use, and how much steel they could import from a steel mill right outside of Warrington. (especially if the ledger doesn't tell them how much they've shipped out of Sheffield and how much has been hauled to Warrington for that year) So if a player still builds a steel mill outside of Warrington and succeeds in preventing this penalty event from being triggered, then he was a daring player who risked a harsh penalty and must love micromanaging specific cargo loads.
Again it's not a perfect solution. And it's a fairly complicated solution, but it could potentially work, especially if there are requirements/points for shipping steel out of Sheffield.
Variables will be set by event as:
V1 = YTD Steel hauled to terr by company (Warrington)
V2 = YTD steel hauled from terr by company (Sheffield)
V2- V1 = V3 [I'll call it V3 here, but in reality it would probably just be reusing V2]
If V3 < "X" Then induce some sort of penalty.
I don't know how much a steel mill puts out of steel versus fertilizer, but hypothetically we'll say the steel mill makes 10 loads of steel.
We'll want to haul those 10 loads of steel out of Sheffield and send them either to Warrington (or potentially some other industry) Either way the steel will leave Sheffield. = V2 the company will remove them from the city/territory. At this point we'll say the player ships all the steel out of Sheffield that he can, all 10 loads.
The company will also want to send steel to Warrington, whether it's from Sheffield, or a steel plant build right outside Warrington. So we'll use V1 to represent how much steel Warrington has received this year.
So right now we have the following equation depending on how much steel the player sends to Warrington:
V2 (10) - V1 (?) = ??
If the player ships all the steel from Sheffield to Warrington: we'll have V2 (10) - V1 (10) = V3 (0)
But if it player ships only some of the steel from Sheffield to Warrington, and uses some other steel elsewhere maybe it'll look something like:
V2 (10) - V1 (5) = V3 (5)
If the player uses a second Steel mill to supplement production from Sheffield it could look something like:
V2 (10) - V1 (20) = V3 (-10)
[If the player is using 2 steel mills though but not supplementing production he could get around this event limitation. Steel from Sheffield may be used for nearby industries, but a steel mill right outside of Warrington could be supplying Warrington, which is a somewhat complicated way of getting around this event/limitation, but it would take careful planning by the player to make sure he doesn't over-haul steel into Warrington.]
And if the player neglects the steel industry in Warrington and just builds a steel mill outside Warrington:
V2 (0) - V1 (10) = V3 (-10)
Then figure out "X" which would be an approximate number that gives the player some "leeway" for any trains that may be in route between Sheffield and Warrington, assuming you'll give them leeway for stopping at cities along the way, unless you'll require them to be direct non-stop trains in which case, little to no "leeway" would need to be granted.
Let's say we'll allow for 1 train full of steel as leeway to have stopped somewhere outside of Sheffield but before Warrington and it might haul 5 loads of steel. So now we need to set "X" Since we'll allow 5 "extra" carloads of steel to Warrington, we'll set "X" as -5.
Then If V3 < -5 (X) ... some penalty is imposed .... since hypothetically you are shipping in steel from outside of Sheffield which is inferior steel.
I think trains for loads hauled from a territory only count once they finally arrive at a station somewhere else. So if you tell the player he must use non-stop trains from Sheffield to Warrington or "risk" being fined for delayed/inferior/damaged steel, you could probably just make the X value, -1 (to give a minimal amount of leeway for any cargo loss in transit.)
Then if V3 < -1 This gives the player much less leeway and makes it much more difficult for them to estimate how much steel they'll be able to take from Sheffield for local use, and how much steel they could import from a steel mill right outside of Warrington. (especially if the ledger doesn't tell them how much they've shipped out of Sheffield and how much has been hauled to Warrington for that year) So if a player still builds a steel mill outside of Warrington and succeeds in preventing this penalty event from being triggered, then he was a daring player who risked a harsh penalty and must love micromanaging specific cargo loads.
Again it's not a perfect solution. And it's a fairly complicated solution, but it could potentially work, especially if there are requirements/points for shipping steel out of Sheffield.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
Wow Blackhawk, I didn't expect you to go to that much trouble (again), especially as I've already decided to go down the route of disabling the player from building industrys, as this *might* also slow down the game slightly, and, make it harder.
In test plays, leading up to the steel issue, I found that by adopting the "industry complex" method - ie selected an 'empty' spot on the map and build two or three of the same industires, then supply all resourses to that point rather than several different points - the human player becomes awash with money, which makes the latter challanges way too easy.
To that aim I've already started rebalancing the industries to ensure that everything is accounted for.
Of course, this will further delay the release further... so can only hope its worth the wait.
In test plays, leading up to the steel issue, I found that by adopting the "industry complex" method - ie selected an 'empty' spot on the map and build two or three of the same industires, then supply all resourses to that point rather than several different points - the human player becomes awash with money, which makes the latter challanges way too easy.
To that aim I've already started rebalancing the industries to ensure that everything is accounted for.
Of course, this will further delay the release further... so can only hope its worth the wait.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
I probably put more time into typing out the idea and attempting to explain it, than to actually think of the idea. It's actually just a variation of something I have been contemplating on using in my next scenario. I just haven't gotten to that point in my scenario yet to actually utilize the idea to make it specific to my scenario and the cargos hauled. Maybe in a couple months I'll have some final results with it.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
Had a bit of a break on this one but am now back balancing the industries and making some other tweaks to make things more difficult, before returning to some test plays.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire"
Okay, here's where we are up to on this one and you'll be pleased to see that we have progress.
Test plays suggested to me that there was a 'dull' period in the game so I've been working on a devilish little twist to that will hopefully make things that little more tricky.
I've also cleared up some other issues and can now say I'm ready to present a the scenario for testing so I can get an idea at how high, or low to set the final points required for the victory conditions.
For that reason there are no victory conditions set at the moment but there are several "hobo" loose things to watch out for.
Also the map isn't painted yet but everything else should work.
So just have a play of the attached scenario and see what you think, and just how many points you can get but no looking in the editor to see what the future holds.
Test plays suggested to me that there was a 'dull' period in the game so I've been working on a devilish little twist to that will hopefully make things that little more tricky.
I've also cleared up some other issues and can now say I'm ready to present a the scenario for testing so I can get an idea at how high, or low to set the final points required for the victory conditions.
For that reason there are no victory conditions set at the moment but there are several "hobo" loose things to watch out for.
Also the map isn't painted yet but everything else should work.
So just have a play of the attached scenario and see what you think, and just how many points you can get but no looking in the editor to see what the future holds.
- Attachments
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- warrington-wire-TestVersion03.rar
- (546.01 KiB) Downloaded 213 times
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
- nedfumpkin
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
I'll see if I can make some time this weekend...I'm still finishing up my Monopoly map, almost done...but I've been engaged in helping my kid with a project for school so I've had to redirect my attention to parental things....it's a long weekend here...so I should be able to find the time...plus the kid is going to his mom's for the weekend. :)
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
So far, I didn´t know that Trainmaster is taught at Canadian schools.....nedfumpkin wrote:...but I've been engaged in helping my kid with a project for school (...)
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
Any comments from the three people that downloaded.
Or shall I just assume the scenario is perfect....
Or shall I just assume the scenario is perfect....
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
Now I'm not so busy I'll have a go, Ed.
Edit: Here's my first grumble - where's Bradford? Most important city in the region in 1830, centre of wool trade and my home town!!
Well I'll forgive your oversight and carry on.
Edit: Here's my first grumble - where's Bradford? Most important city in the region in 1830, centre of wool trade and my home town!!
Well I'll forgive your oversight and carry on.
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
Something happened when I started this, don't know if it's the scenario or a problem with TM but I've been running TM OK so unless something's changed in the last few weks I guess it's the scenario. I get error message "Pack element < > not found" I've had that before when new cars or engines are missing. Maybe I need to update or something, or is it a new element that should come with this scenario?
Edit: I've downloaded all the new stuff I can see, it's still doing it.
Edit: I've downloaded all the new stuff I can see, it's still doing it.
Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
Ruth,
there's nothing custom in the scenario other than the Stephenson Tycoon image, which Ned did for me but I assume that would be included in the scenario without any need for it to be installed and according to Ned as long as you have Campaign Files 2 installed everything should work fine.
Naturally, Ned will probably know better.
As for Bradford, well I had to miss out a lot of town/cities, to make the gaps between them big enough to make the game interesting as in TM terms there wouldn't be a lot of 'fun' in running from Leeds to Bradford as, on the map, the stations would be practically touching.
there's nothing custom in the scenario other than the Stephenson Tycoon image, which Ned did for me but I assume that would be included in the scenario without any need for it to be installed and according to Ned as long as you have Campaign Files 2 installed everything should work fine.
Naturally, Ned will probably know better.
As for Bradford, well I had to miss out a lot of town/cities, to make the gaps between them big enough to make the game interesting as in TM terms there wouldn't be a lot of 'fun' in running from Leeds to Bradford as, on the map, the stations would be practically touching.
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
I'll wait for ned to pop up and tell me what I've done wrong. It'll be something obvious no doubt I'm only joking about Bradford, we're used to playing second fiddle to Leeds!
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Re: Scenario in progress - "Warrington Wire" - TEST MAP post
I agree with Ed...sounds like you are missing something, it is probably the portrait in the campaign files 2 zip.
You have to install campaign files in order: 1, 1.1, then 2.
You have to install campaign files in order: 1, 1.1, then 2.