A faint echo of a scenario idea

[Moggie]

Here's what I have so far:
- a single land mass
- river runs in the middle all the way from eastern edge to western edge
- begin with rights to southern part
- north mistrustful of south and the rail baron ie. player
- baron must manufacture and transport a set amount of medicine in order to show he's not in it _only_ for the money
- then north gives rights
- must transport set amount of products up north
- raw material sources in the north, industries in the south

Any input?

[nedfumpkin]

Make it difficult. That's my only suggestion. Use variables and choices to affect the outcomes of certain things. Maybe put some twists...make it different.

As an example, in Persian Electric the way you accumulate cash is via payouts, dividends etc...but you can't buy stock. In Birth of a Nation, it's more about not losing than actually winning since you can fail along the way...not just pursue some far off goal.

Trainmaster was designed to give the scenario writer more options for different scenarios...so explore that aspect of it.

JMO

[WPandP]

I would suggest that the river be broad, painted with the lake/ocean tools rather than the one-square wide river tools, thus forcing the player to expend tons of money to bridge across it.

Use a Territory Variable to record the North's level of happiness, sort of a diplomatic scale. Then you can have all kinds of events along the way, whose effects either please or displease the North (i.e. Effect = TV1 gets +1). And, you can have other events that trigger only at certain levels of North displeasure (i.e. Condition = TV1<4).

Make the Bronze/Silver/Gold conditions all be the same, transporting a certain resource to the North, but just different amounts; that way, the sooner you complete your diplomacy the more loads you can haul. Perhaps it should be loads hauled FROM the North rather than TO, since one could cheat a bit just by pre-loading up a bunch of trains and parking them until the rights are secured, and then activate them and dump all the loads in one river crossing. Loads coming FROM, however, could not be collected until after gaining access.

[Moggie]

Perhaps it should be loads hauled FROM the North rather than TO, since one could cheat a bit just by pre-loading up a bunch of trains and parking them until the rights are secured, and then activate them and dump all the loads in one river crossing. Loads coming FROM, however, could not be collected until after gaining access.

Oh, but you cannot preload trains with goods if you cannot manufacture them. All the raw materials would be in the North...

[WPandP]

But the raw goods from the north will "walk" south on their own, eventually finding their way to the factories. Cargo doesn't respect territory access, so one could still cheat in that way. Best to tally the loads for raw materials delivered from the north, I maintain.

EDIT: I just saw a post elsewhere noting that cargo won't move across lake/ocean bodies unless there is a Port on each shore, so if you do use these tools to make a broad river and omit ports from at least one of the two territories, then you can prevent loads "walking" from north to south. Just run a lot of testing to make sure that you don't get random port spawns that might gum up the works!

[edbangor]

as WPandP said, the river - if painted as a river - will add as a road (well canal) and good will travel down (and up) it, however if you paint as ocean or lake then it won't. Or not as much anyway. (BTW: rivers are a great way to get the AI raw matierals in its factories as the AI tends just to join to cities only.)

Likewise a big long lake, or mountain range, will slow down, if not stop, the trickle of raw materials moving about the map.

Also if you are painting as Ocean, you have the option of hiding, a (no access) territory in the middle of it to prevent bridging.

Anyway, as Ned said, play with some of the Events to do things player's won't expect. You can also put in some false goals - things that appear to be challanges but don't actually make any difference to the medal count - or do some random things as have the ruler of the land bring in some silly laws with effects to the railroad.

One of the best ways to do this - I've found - is to play the scenario and see what happens (and especially what an AI companies do) so you can then create events to make that harder, or easier, and/or to push the AI or human player into the direction you want.

Or you could just open someone else's scenario in the editor and 'borrow' their ideas!

[Blackhawk]

I'd come up with some sort of storyline behind the scenario. Why is the railroad being built? Why does the North distrust the South? Why do you need to ship X cargo to win? The better the story behind the scenario the more I think I get into a scenario. Otherwise It's sort of just here's a map... now go build and ship things.

Decide on the size of the map. A smaller map will likely mean a shorter scenario. A larger map will allow for more places to build, more industries, possibly a longer scenario, etc. However, a larger map will also mean more work in placing cities, industries, and painting the map.

Also decide on the years the scenario takes place. Then you'll know what type of trains you have to choose from as well as placing industries. (I made the mistake of having my scenario start in 1975 and placing industries and then later deciding it would be better to start in 1970. Since all my industries were built in 1975 instead of 1970, the industry profits screen on the industry showed up blank until 1975. So i had to go back and replace them. It's best to get an idea of when the scenario will start, and start placing your industries around at various years before the start date. Then you'll have industries they have been built in different previous years, rather than everything being built in the year you start the scenario) In addition, depending on the year you pick the demands for the industries might be different as well.

If all the raw materials are in the North and all the industries are in the south, you'll likely want to disable industries from being built by the player so they can't just build an industry up in the north next to the raw material.
Also then what is in the south that will give the railroad profit to expand to? Or will the farms be in the South so you'll at least have paper mills and textile mills to be shipping good to and make money off of?
If medicine is to be supplied to the North in order for them to give you access, you'll have to make sure to have lavendar farms or all the demanded cargoes for a pharmaecudical plant in the South so medicine can be manufactured.
Does the medicine go to a Southern Border town by the North or does it actually go to a Northern City? If it needs to go to a Northern City but you don't want to give access to all the North, you could use a 3rd territory around a Northern City or two by the river and give the player access to that. Then after a certain number of medicine is delivered to that territory or city you can trigger the event that gives the player access to the rest of the North. Or maybe just segments of the North. (Divide it up into regions of the country/territory)
-If the North is sort of a backwards nation, maybe you have to send in the medicine for them to start trusting you, but then you get access to a region of the North with iron and coal. Then the North wants to become more industrialized and so you need to bring them steel to help them build and update their country. Once enough steel is shipped in, maybe the North trusts you more and gives you access to another part of the country with other resources. and/or when various levels of steel are met, an industry or two could be spawned in the North.

Taking WP&P's idea of a diplomatic rating/happiness scale you could also make one for the South. If you start shipping too much medicine, steel, etc to the North at once maybe they start to distrust you. So you might gain the North's happiness, but the South grows displeased which could result in fines or losing access to regions of the South. So it could be a balancing at between not getting the South or North too displeased at you. Or maybe if you ship enough supplies to the North events with an add industry effect spawn the North's own industry and you don't have to worry about if you lose access to the South.

If you wanted to complicate the diplomatic matters between the North and South you could throw in a war, and have the railroad's track confiscated in one of the countries, or require the railroad to start shipping troops/weapons/ammo etc but you have to decide which side to help. If you deliver them for both sides, maybe both sides are pleased... or annoyed that you're playing both sides just for money. Again whichever side you help would have an effect on the diplomatic rating.

[Moggie]

The mind boggles... . I'll have to do some hardcore thinking and planning before I come up with an alpha, even...

[Moggie]

Came up with a thought about the animosity. North is poor agricultural country that was exploited for resources back when North and South were parts of the same country. The split was conducted without bloodshed, but animosity remains.

[Blackhawk]

Came up with a thought about the animosity. North is poor agricultural country that was exploited for resources back when North and South were parts of the same country. The split was conducted without bloodshed, but animosity remains.

If the South has no farms/natural resources you could make some ports (assuming there is some ocean it is connected to) where raw resources are imported. But then use an event to increase the price of all the resources that you allow imported. It might take some trial and error but if you raise the resources high enough to where the industries just barely make a profit. (if you want them making any profit at all) [Prices are set globally, not by territory] Then after you connect to the North and ship a number of resources to the South, you can have another event where the prices are reduced some, or set back to normal, as resources now flood the market and the South doesn't have to pay the extra expenses of having them imported. You could then keep the ports, or destroy the ports by an event [create another "territory" and make sure the ports you want destroyed are in that territory, and then use an event to destroy the building] If you keep the ports still, you could have the prices skyrocket again during a war, and any industries you own will then not make a profit for a couple years, or possibly lose money. Although if any industries were placed in the North that were owned by the Railroad, then this idea wouldn't make much sense as again, prices can only be set globally and the Northern industry would still have cheap access to resources.

If you go with using a diplomatic/happiness rating you could possibly use something where if you send more than a certain amount of resource back to the South, the North starts to grow angry again as they begin to feel exploited. Although perhaps this is countered by if you send them back enough of a manufactured good they'll remain content or even grow pleased.
Ex. Again using iron/coal and steel out of simplicity. If you ship more than 5 iron and 5 coal to the South the Northern view of you declines 1 point (-1) but if you ship them back 10 or more loads steel their view of you grows 2 points (+2) (so a net effect of +1 as a view of you) If you send back to them 5-9 loads of steel their view of you grows 1 point (+1) (so a net effect of 0. As they are content with you as you are taking their resources, and using some for them, and some for the south. Then if you send them 4 loads or less of steel back, there is no modifier and thus they think you are exploiting them and there is a net effect of -1.
[The above is just a basic idea, I would have to look more at the editor to figure out the best way to execute that idea since the amount that could be shipped out of the North yearly would vary. Unless you just went with the specific numbers like I used above. Which you could do if you have another event where maybe the South now with the border open to the North requires you to ship 5 loads of iron and 5 loads of coal to the South each year. Then you'll have a general idea of how much is being shipped to the South. And this number could grow over time as the South again tries to exploit the North, and you're rail line grows in size in the North connecting more and more mines and farms.]

[Blackhawk]

Another idea would be use the electricity amounts as some sort of goal:
1. Go with the idea that as you ship steel back industries pop up. Maybe one of those is an electric power plant in a city, which you now have to supply with coal and generate enough electricity in the North each year for them to be happy. OR
2. Maybe power plants are already built... they're just over by the cities, or on another part of the Northern country and the North was relying on Tycoonians to bring coal to them by land, or maybe a small river. But if you can build a rail line there and supply them with coal, maybe then they will start producing electricity and the North will be greatful.

If the ultimate objective of the scenario is to help the North industrialize rather than just have haulage goals into the North, then upon reaching certain electricity outputs this could trigger an event which places an industry. Eventually after completing enough small objectives like bringing in enough steel, enough energy, etc. maybe the North spawns an industry which the South doesn't have. Something like a missile plant. Then you have to build a few missiles and send them to a military base to ultimately win. The missiles will now give the North a way to defend itself and not let other countries like the South take advantage of it for its resources.

[Grandma Ruth]

Just a little point - think carefully about what you allow to be built. Someone mentioned ports and they can really alter the way a scenario plays if they can be built. Ports and warehouses which can't be built are a good way of controlling the supply of any particular commodity, but if you forget and allow them to be built by the player then you lose that control. I know, I've done it.
If you want a completely controlled route for anything, the way to do it is to have a river (which can look like a canal or a road) with warehouses supplying or demanding your item. It will then walk along the river in the direction you have chosen by the placement of your warehouse. But this depends on there being no other supply or demand for that item, which can be fairly tricky to arrange.

[edbangor]

allow them to be built by the player then you lose that control. I know, I've done it.

Haven't we all!

And on that subject, be careful not to place any buildings in the editor that you don't want the player to be able to build later on, as once placed, these can't be disabled in the INDUSTRY OVERALL tab. (this is a RT3 thing not a TM one!)
If you want to put buildings on the map that the player can't build, use an event instead. (this can then be triggered by time, or some other method!)