Test Map

[Hawk]

I've got a question; How do you supply water towers and maintenance facilities with their demands? Do they have to be built within a station radius?

Can you give some basic strategy ideas for this map in TM, or have you already done this in one of the read me's or threads?

I tried starting in Albernia and out to Valleyfield and Horizon but there wasn't a lot of money to be made there. I then spread out to Cremona and still didn't make any money.

I started again but this time I bought a Glass Factory in Mucusso, only to find out sand doesn't travel on it's own.

I will admit, I'm a bit confused on this new strategy (I wasn't all that great in the strategy dept. with 1.05 ).

[nedfumpkin]

My focus while playing the map has been to examine industries and see if they work well or not. So the best I can give you is from that perspective, since there is an industry requirement.

Water towers and maintenance facilities will draw cargo. If you put a station nearby, then you can control the cargo, and also use it as a way point for cargo as you would a railyard structure. The maintenance facility demands 1/2 load of machinery. If you locate it outside the radiius of ther stations, and put a small station, it can be used to stack up machinery then you can move it elsewhere where it is needed.

To play this map, start by buying the meat packing plant at Erin. Then get a bond connect Erin to Arton. When you can get more bonds, buy the Paper Mill at Silibury Bay, and connect Erin to Silibury Bay. The next purchase is the flour mill. It takes about a year after the paper mill starts producing before the flour mill starts making a profit.

Then connect Erin to Middleton. This will give you two supplies of hemp for the paper mill and two supplies of meat. Next Connect to the Food Processing Plant near Eastport. Buy it because it gushes cash. Then go towards Swain and get the sugar refinery going, the textile mill too.

Don't upgrade the paper mill until you are connected to Middleton because it won't be enough to be profitable. Don't upgrade the meat packing plant until the food processor is supplied. Supplying the flour mill with textiles and paper will produce lots of flour.

Next head for the logs and pulpwood. Then go for steel. Industries pop up without warning so keep an eye out for an oil refinery and a chemical plant.

[Hawk]

Thanks! I'll try that.
I'm thinking of making Mucusso a hub. It's already got a steel plant and I was thinking I could build a glass factory there and maybe a rubber factory.
Not sure where I'll build the auto plant, but that's a ways down the road. I'm still trying to make a buck and figure out this industry chain.

[nedfumpkin]

If I'm not mistken, I think I put an event to add an autoplant. I tried to create events to add industries when city connections were made that would suggest the industry could be supplied. But I forget, so don't hold me to it.

[Hawk]

No problem. I figure an auto plant is down the road a ways. I gots plenty time.

I do like the loading screens.

[nedfumpkin]

There's no real end date on this map, the idea is to get the player familiar with the industry from the bottom of the chain up.

Thanks on the loading screens. Eventually I am going to have it so that paks can be created by users that could be included in the extras for a given scenario. Or, based on user preferences, etc.

[Hawk]

Well, I can tell I'm off to a bad start.

Click on image to view full size

I'm going to start again and see if I can run my track a little more logistically.

[Hawk]

The next start was a lot better, but the fun had just begun.

I got cities connected a lot better, with the thought of future growth in mind. Then I started seeing some problems. Turns out I was looking at some industries wrong. I was feeding an oil refinery with the raw for a chemical plant, and couldn't figure out why it wasn't turning out any chemicals. DUH!
I was feeding industry's like in RT3. Wrong! So I dug out Wolvy's pdf's that I had printed and did a bit more reading, well - actually, my first time actually reading with the thought of comprehension.
Then I started looking at lot of other things a little closer, and it started opening my eyes. Boy - was I going about it all wrong.

I find this more and more intriguing.

[nedfumpkin]

If you are wondering how I managed to introduce gold into the game, some hints may be found here.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/647671

Although I claim complete innocence of course. :)

I think Wolverine posted something along the same lines about rethinking your approach to how to play the game. This is one of the hardest things to get across because while everything looks and plays like RT3, the game approach has to be different. I am finding it myself as well when I play. There is definitely a learning curve going on.

The Agricultural communities are best approached as what they are....rural villages with a co-op. I tried to make the main 4 representative, but with the mind always that not every geographic region has everything, and some things must be imported via warehouses or ports. So while a part of Georgia may have some Rice produced, and an Asian Farmstead would provide for that on a Georgia map, up in the north eastern states, it would more likely be imported. Hopefully I have designed the agricultural communities well enough that a good mix can be had to make a geo-representational map.

The Agricultural communities are the grass roots of every map. So it makes sense to plan around them in the early stages. As in life, their wares have to get to market or else the entire economy falls apart. Either you can run multiple trains to the communities, or you can run passenger trains from town to town, and haul all the freight to a yard then disburse it.

I've also found myself building industries only to discover that I forgot to supply all its inputs. This will take time for people to learn since a lot of RT3 allows only 1 input create a new cargo. As in life, this approach has to consider the things that make a product, and packaging is considered as well as fuel in some cases.

Some industries, like oil wells, require machinery to produce because they actually are very dependent on workers and machinery in order to pump oil.

But even if I say so myself, I am finding this to be a bit of a slower game, with a requirement to plan ahead, and pay attention.

I'm going to work on the Black Diamonds scenario while I am working on the freight cars. I have some really good ideas for how to write the scenario and make it interesting all the way to the end. It's the scenario with two seasons...winter and roadwork. :)

[Hawk]

It's the scenario with two seasons...winter and roadwork. :)

Yes, it does appear a whole new way of thinking is required for TM. Much more in-depth than with RT3. Should make for some intriguing strategy.

[nedfumpkin]

One thing that springs to mind is that with a number industries competing for certain resources, scenarios could be created where the play chooses at some point to be the "X" King, and thus might then have a requirement to haul a specific number of X cargo, or they could choose "Y" King and have to haul Y cargo, but not both since eache could be mutually exclusive to the other just based on limited cargo for the inputs.

I would love to be able to include the operators for events that 1.06 has because then even more possibilites could be available for complex scenarios.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I would love to be able to include the operators for events that 1.06 has because then even more possibilites could be available for complex scenarios.

Trainmaster actually works just fine when run with the 1.06 RT3.exe. The only problem, of course, is that maps made or saved in 1.06 can only be played in 1.06. But that may not be a problem with the "1.06 stripper" program posted recently (I think by Sugus). I haven't tried it yet, but if it does what it purports to do, interchangability between 1.06 and 1.05 won't be a problem, except I'm not sure how 1.05 would handle some events created in 1.06 that use math functions.

[nedfumpkin]

I'm seriously considering the possibility of using the program mentioned by Sugus, but that will be as a last resort. I will be first trying to make a TM exe because, and this is always first and foremost, this game will run on Vista. This is the one thing that I will never acquiesce on.

Another thing is that this game wasn't designed to have municipal buildings buildable by the player. The idea behind thos was to create an antagonist for the player than can never be controlled and is operating based on the eonomic situation. This is why I am focused on creating modifications similar to 1.06, but not with the problems associated with it.

I am only really interested in the operators for events such as divsion etc. I'm not sure what other features were included with 1.06, but the locomotives and passenger cars in TM have gone well beyond what's in 1.06, as will the freight cars. One problem that I was experiencing with 1.06 before Vista was the inability to see anything in the event editor, as well as the inability to save a game; autosave crashed every time. Neither of these bugs are acceptable.

While I appreciate that 1.06 is very popular, and I have no quarrels with it per se, Trainmaster has been something completely separate from it, and as both you and Hawk have discovered, it requires a different approach to the game. It's been pursued as not so much an RT3 patch for 1.05 or 1.06, but as a completely separate game...an expert edition. So for that reason, I am trying to keep it on track towards that end and I am very cautious of it migrating into a patch for a previous version.

Another consideration is that as I move along, I am discovering that TM will have some of its own bugs and issues, so I don't want to add to them with 1.06 bugs or issues. I'm only interested in that which is good, and that which will work regardless if it is from 1.06 or any other mod.

I apolgise if I appear stern on this issue, certainly it's not directed at anyone person, especially not Wolvy. Consider it the TM mission statement on this issue. It's the only thing I have an imovable stance on. As it is, I will not engage in any discussions where TM is being run with the 1.06 exe, and will directly oppose it. But again, that's not to say that I'm not continually looking into the matter, and if it is possible, at some point it may become so. But for now, this is only running on the 1.04 Beta patch that is included in the download.

.......


Last night I tried the test map again and got to 1917. The economy was in the crapper and I was in the red. Same strategy as above. Tonight I will try again and see if I can't far better. In previous starts I did very well, so we'll see what happens now.

[Hawk]

I'm not having very much success with the economy either. I just can't seem to make enough money to expand to what I need fast enough to make some money, and I'm playing on medium.
I know part of the problem is me, but this economy is a bit - how shall I say this - 'stingy' maybe?

I did cheat and opened the editor and disabled breakdowns and crashes. I just couldn't afford them.

I'm still trying to get my head around this industry structure though.

[nedfumpkin]

I tried a new tact and this is working very well. I bought the meat packer at Erin and let the game go the first year off just its profits...no bonds. I started laying track to Arton and placing stations with the money that was coming in. After the first year, I got 3 bonds and I laid track to Arton and placed stations etc. I bought the paper mill at Silibury Bay, and connected it to Erin. Ran 2 trains until I could afford a third.

Next I got another bond and connected to Middleton via Erin. Trains ran as such....

Arton - Erin - Middleton - Erin. Livestock, waste, milk, produce any express to Erin, and from Erin any cargo. Min 1 only at the ends.

Erin - Silibury Bay any cargo each way.

Arton - Silibury Bay. Hemp, grain, corn, milk produce any express, any cargo on the way back.

Same trip for Middleton.

As soon as the paper mill begins producing paper it will ship fast, so wait a year before buying the flowur mill.

Next I bought the textile mill at Swain, and began connecting to it via the sugar refininery. I put a shed at the refinery, and shipped wool, corn, and produce from the Co-ops to the Refinery, then the wool went on to Swain viaa short run locomotive.

Then I wnet for the food processor, and connected to Eastport. I'm at 1918, playing on Expert, and I have 5 million in bonds at 5%, I've got a good set-up and I am just finished with upgrades on all the industries. I'm going to start reducing my bond load by at least one bond per year now.

I am going to begin expanding north and west now. I want the pulpwood for my paper mill, and I also want to source out a tannery because a I already know a chemical plant is going to appear on the east once I make some new connections.

So at this point, I would say that while initially difficult, my first impression is that once you get the hang of it, it's a very doable map.


The key to the industries is to not let your cargo fly all over the map. If you aren't careful, hemp will go to Erin, and then on to Silibury Bay. You may money of the hauling, but it delays the delivery and you want to make sure your industries don't run dry.

I using dedicated lcomotives to supply certain industries. I have one sitting at Silibury Bay dedicated to hauling paper to the sugar refinery. I just waits for a load and then goes and takes back whatever it can, it runs on empty on the way back if necessary. I have another for flour to the Food Processor. Same deal, waits for a load of flour and then comes back with whatever it can.

By doing this I make sure that it rarely runs out of the key ingredients which are the ones that are .2 or so. It's not enough demand that you'll get stacks of the cargo, but without it the industry loses money.

[Hawk]

I had a big post I was going to make here that I did in Notepad while I had TM running in the background. Then I see your post.
I'm going to print what you wrote and study it over coffee in the morning.

But - Since I worked so hard on my 'big post', I'm going to post it anyway. It might give you an idea of where I'm going. Lord knows I don't know!

Let me see if I get this right.

The meat packing plant does great being supplied with livestock from Arton and Middleton.

I need the paper mill because the flour mill and sugar refinery needs paper. I have to get either pulpwood or hemp to the paper mill to produce the paper, that is until 1920 when it requires the addition of chemicals.
The chemical plant needs alcohol and pulpwood, alcohol and gum, or 1 coal to produce chemicals (going with only coal seems to produce nothing). Alcohol needs either grain & lumber - until 1939, then grain & glass or grain & aluminum for the brewery, or produce-or sugar & lumber, then glass for the distillery Glass needs sand and coal, or chemicals, or aluminum.

Then I need the flour mill to produce by supplying it with grain & textiles-or paper or corn & textiles-or paper.

Then the food processor comes in, and it needs milk-or meat and flour until 1920 which it then needs the addition of plastic.
The plastic plant needs pulpwood-or hemp and chemicals until 1921 in which it then needs gum-or oil and chemicals.
The ports supply gum if supplied with food.

All of these need machinery, which by default is only at ports and in limited supply, so a need to build a machine shop comes into the agenda, which it requires steel and textiles-or rubber until 1930, then it requires aluminum & electronics starting in 1910.
Steel requires coal and iron. Aluminum requires bauxite, textiles require cotton or wool or hemp and rubber until 1930 then it requires plastic, and electronics require coal, petroleum, glass, and machinery.

Rubber requires gum, which requires food, which requires meat-or milk and flour (which requires grain or corn and textiles or paper) and plastics (which requires pulpwood or hemp and chemicals until 1921, then it's gum or oil and chemicals).

So, just to get food going I need to run rail from Arton and Middleton to Erin with the rail supplying livestock to Erin for the meat packing plant. Then build track to Silibury Bay and Eastport (to get as much machinery as possible until I can build a machine shop) and supply Silibury Bay with pulpwood or hemp from Middleton (or beyond if you can afford to lay the track) for the paper. Then the paper goes to the flour mill so I need to get grain and/or corn to it from Arton and/or Middleton.

Then I need to get the flour from Silibury Bay to the food processing plant, along with some meat from Erin, then - after 1920 I need to get plastic to it as well (I can swap food for gum at the ports). This necessitates the building of a chemical plant and a plastics factory.
Plastics needs chemicals as well as gum and/or oil (oil seems to be no problem).
Chemicals needs coal – or – pulpwood and/or gum and alcohol.

Here's where I run into a problem. I can't get the chemical plant to produce squat! I feed it with a dedicated coal train and get no chemicals. I tried feeding it with alcohol and pulpwood, but I can't get a distillery to produce because I'm too broke to get near the sugar refinery.

Thing is; Without the chemical plant the chain starts to break down. Paper, plastics, fertilizer, sugar, etc. all die out from not being fed.
Maybe I'm going about it wrong. Could be I'm still scratching my head over this industry structure, but if my trains would make a tad more money I could probably keep my head a little more above water.

[nedfumpkin]

I'm going to look into the Chemical Plant to see if there is something wrong with it. It looks good and I did test it, but I'll go for it with gusto.

The oil refinery also produces chemicals.

I'm able to keep my paper mill profitable by having direct trains from Arton and Middleton supply it with hemp. Two sources are enough to keep it going. I'm making sure that the Textile Mill at swain doesn't get any hemp, and relies on the supply of wool.

I've not had a problem with the supply of machinery. If an industry just demands machinery, then it only affects profitability, if the recipe includes machinery to make its supply, then give it a higher priority. The ports are supplying enough for me.

[Hawk]

I'm going to look into the Chemical Plant to see if there is something wrong with it. It looks good and I did test it, but I'll go for it with gusto.

Try feeding it with coal only.

The oil refinery also produces chemicals.

I saw that in the overall view, but I didn't seem to have any luck shipping chemicals from there. 'Course that was earlier in my playing days.

I'm able to keep my paper mill profitable by having direct trains from Arton and Middleton supply it with hemp. Two sources are enough to keep it going. I'm making sure that the Textile Mill at swain doesn't get any hemp, and relies on the supply of wool.

That's basically what I do but in 1920, when it starts requiring chemicals, that's where I run into a snag with the chemicals.

I've not had a problem with the supply of machinery. If an industry just demands machinery, then it only affects profitability, if the recipe includes machinery to make its supply, then give it a higher priority. The ports are supplying enough for me.

I've not got that far into a scenario to actually realize a need or none for machinery. I was just guessing it might be required.

[nedfumpkin]

I ckecked the chemical plant and it will produce chemicals from coal, however, this was at a loss because the price of coal was more than the chemicals. I am going to up that so that it is profitable.

[Hawk]

Oh! So it was a loss for the chemical plant to produce chemicals with nothing supplied but coal. Well, at least we know the 'Not-Profitable' inhibitor is working.
That would explain why the chemical plant was forever red.