Birth of a Nation (CA01)

[nedfumpkin]

No worries...I'm not the one who gets bothered by it...chuckie on the other hand will most like demand we get it right when he wears the crown. :)

[Wolverine@MSU]

Where can I find the download page for this map?

[nedfumpkin]

It is posted in a message somewhere, but it's still the same map as before...CA01 is Birth of a Nation. I've been waiting until I go things to this point before finishing it. I should have it done this weekend.

[Hawk]

It took some looking but I finally found it.

viewtopic.php?p=19650#p19650

[nedfumpkin]

Just a quick update to say that I continue to work on the new map and I am almost finished putting the towns in. As much as possible, this map will be a relatively accurate representation of the industry of thise area as it was in 1836. As the scenario prgoresses, known industries will appear at the time and place when they did historically. For example, Redpath Sugar (Canada Sugar Refining Company) will appear in 1854 at Lachine.

[delacroixp]

I started Trainmaster about a month ago and love the new focus ... but I can't figure out how to become chairman of the Grand Trunk Railway in the Birth of a Nation (CA01) campaign.

I've read numerous strategy guides but none covers the possibility of running an AI company.
Starting new companies, resigning from the old company and then running the new company seams to be the normal approach.

What am I missing?

It's all good


Pascal

[RulerofRails]

Glad you got it.

[RulerofRails]

Sorry, I mistook your singature style for a clue that you had discovered the small twist in this scenario. Basically, if you keep playing for awhile all will be revealed. As the player you are not required to switch chairs, events take care of that. If you played right through the map and never received the chair position, please give us some more info and maybe a saved game so we can try to work out what is happening there.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

I am so frustrated by this scenario.

Not my way to go into a rant but I feel practically compelled to do so in this case.

I have lost and lost at this scenario over and over again and most of those losses feel like they are because the scenario is misleading or simply unforthcoming with how it is expected to be played. I mean this scenario expects things to be done a very specific way and then it punishes you with a game loss if you don't do it the right way. With adequate documentation that would be fine but the scenario sure as heck does not have that.

Let me recount some of the ways I have lost.

We are told we have to complete a bunch of tasks and then deliver stuff to Montreal. OK I once took over the Grand Trunk and connected it to Ottawa and then switched back...when the game came to a close I had lost because the Grand Trunk had not taken over the original rail road. Where the heck did it say that was supposed to happen?

I have lost over and over again because Molson's did not make enough money for my rail company due to the fact that I took over the Grand Trunk and Molson's is owned by the original rail line. Argh is that annoying but maybe the designer wants to have it so that you take over the Grand Trunk by event? I mean that could be a secret piece of information that only they know...

...so lets play and wait and wait and wait for the event to fire off that switches ownership...well if that is supposed to happen it sure is well hidden what is supposed to trigger it. I suppose its another one of those secrets that only the designer knows?

It could have something to do with the Victoria Bridge which makes it impossible to cross the water near Montreal. I mean not that it says this is a requirement or anything but who knows? There is presumably some kind of secret way to accomplish this bridge crossing but who the heck knows what that is...certainly, it is not documented.

It is like you have to join a secret cabal to get the hidden information that makes playing this scenario without insane amounts of frustration possible.

It is one thing if a scenario is basically open ended but hard, however, if your scenario requires one to jump through hoops please document what is expected in order to leap through the hoop.

[RulerofRails]

First. I must apologize about my last post (wow, two year passed!). I was confusing this one with Warrington Wire (CA02). In this map, Birth of a Nartion (CA01), the player needs to end up controlling the Grand Trunk railway, and it must be the only company. There are no surprise events to make this happen. It's up to the player to take over the GT then absorb all other companies.

While I would describe as Ned's style to put some secrets, I can understand your frustration here. The ledger is lacking in info until you takeover the Grand Trunk railway. You must check the briefing for the current tasks you need to fulfill. The wording of the 2nd briefing (in-editor name is "Brief 1")

~ Conditions ~

You must maintain industry profits of at least $50k per year until 1840, then at least $500k per year.

You must connect St. Lambert to Odelltown before the end of 1845.

The Grand Trunk Railroad must connect Kingston to Montreal before the end of 1850.

Failing any of the above will result in a game loss.

IMO, this is not really giving enough of a hint that the event ("Lose 4") will check that you are in control of the Grand Trunk railway at the beginning of December 1850 when also checking that you made the connection of Kingston and Montreal in time.

All the subsequent info on what you are required to do is tied to you being in control of the Grand Trunk.


In looking at it for a bit I saw an issue with the event "Lose 5", it doesn't cover the possibilities properly. Say if you are chair of the Grand Trunk in 1841 or later, but the Champlain & St. Lawrence Railway still exists AND is not making $500k in industry profits per year. I believe you will lose the game through no fault of your own. If you absorbed the Champlain & St. Lawrence already, when the event checks for Company ID#=01, it will not find said company and thus (without testing to be sure) I think it will not fire.

I didn't look that long, there might be other things I missed. Ned was ambitious with this scenario. There is a limitation with the gameplay here in that once you realize that you must absorb your initial company (Champlain & St. Lawrence) with the Grand Trunk, there is a big temptation to be lazy with the expansion and/or exploit it for PNW gain. I think the check for the $500k in industry profits and the connection tasks was an attempt to make sure you didn't do nothing. Still, it's not quite the feeling I like (look for best way forward for company). Also, the idea of simply "lasting" till 1870 with no chance to finish early if you do well, wets my enthusiasm a little.

That said I think the setup is good for the economy and such, and if there is enough demand and a couple people who want to brain-storm suggestions to improve said weakness with gameplay, when time permits I would be happy to attempt to do some fixes and tweaks to the events to also provide the player with better info, etc.. Think I would make it into a scenario as I did with CA02 (Warrington Wire).


PS.
One thing with this scenario is that it uses a crazy amount of temporary production modifiers. I have a saved game from 1852. They are enough to cause a little lag whenever I go near the event page in the Editor. I tried to make a new event. This is what I saw:

Cash on Wheels, if you read this, remember I was telling you on your redo of the Africa map that I thought it was hard to use too many events? I think 26836 might be a few too many! I don't know if the count is correct and I do not care to check!

PS. PS.
Hawk, how do you feel about putting this fix: viewtopic.php?p=44342#p44342 in the archives? I could throw it in with the exe patched for price islands and write up a little readme for both.

[Hawk]

PS. PS.
Hawk, how do you feel about putting this fix: viewtopic.php?p=44342#p44342 in the archives? I could throw it in with the exe patched for price islands and write up a little readme for both.

Not a problem. Set it up like you want then send it to me.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

I'll note that the event that kills you if the original rail line does not make 500K after 1840 is not even one I actually have a problem with. It does mean you have to make the original rail company pretty good and therefore Grand Trunk will need to be very good to take it over but that is not - I think - the issue. Or at least I have lost both ways in this respect.

I have lost because I took over Grand Trunk and the original rail line failed to generate 500K or more profits in which case you get one description of an ending and that says how much profits it did make I believe (been a bit since I lost this way) while the last few times I have lost because Molson's made 0 profits - but actually it did just fine but its not owned by the Grand Trunk Rail line.

So I think they are two different loss events though I am not 100% certain of that.

[RulerofRails]

Ok. These profit targets are only counting industry profit. I'm pretty sure you realized that, but just in case.

To get Molson's Brewery profitable you need to deliver either Glass or Lumber. Lumber will be viable as a secondary option if you use my agri. fix that makes the agri. communities behave like it says in the manual. Otherwise, do Glass from Lachine.

One factor here is station placement (large type of course). Lachine station needs to be near the Glass Factory, so any Coal coming in from Montreal (the port is the supply) will most likely naturally travel a block to get there before another train decides to haul said Coal somewhere else. Montreal's station needs to be near the Brewery so that Glass delivered is more likely to go there instead of to the Retail. There is a little trade-off with coverage especially in Montreal, might miss a house or two on the northern fringe of the city.

Basically, if possible it doesn't hurt to have the station on the same economic cell. But what I normally aim for is to have the station one-cell-away from the industry you are aiming to support. The benefit of one-cell-away is that a price lock or "island" as I called it elsewhere will not affect price at your industry. This doesn't matter in TM, unless you use a fix, a big benefit of which is much more stable supply at industries ("price islands" prevent super frequent movement of freight at low prices). I forget if I posted that somewhere yet.

I think it's better to place the station with the tracks toward the industry. Sometimes if said track is very close to the border between cells (it will depend on other building placements if that is achievable) any deliveries can end up on the adjacent cell directly in front of the station. What I am saying here is not that I try to exploit this, but rather that you definitely don't want to be dumping things on the farther cell (other side). So to cover the possibility I recommend placing with the tracks toward whatever industry etc. you want to supply.


PS. The other note is that these targets are for industry profits in general. You can build/buy something else such as a Paper Mill, Textiile Mill, etc.. If you do this, it's very easy. Also, once you leave for the Grand Trunk, such profits will be more stable as relying on the AI for deliveries of needed products (Glass/Lumber) is a bit of a fool's game. Give them something they can't mess up, so assume that the Brewery isn't going to operate well once you leave.

PS. PS. When playing no-industry games station placement is quite important as this can control locations that are pickups (sometimes it makes sense to be a bit further away) and drop offs (close to industry). Further away vs. closer can also be used to make one industry your primary and make one in the next town "secondary." I got quite a bit of practice in my recent games. Those were not even TM games (so price islands mattered and one-cell-away is the general rule). In TM, it's arguably just as important even if you own the industries.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Ruler of Rails I believe your missing my issue.

a) In the scenario Brith of a Nation you start in control of the Champlain Railway which starts off controlling Molson's Brewery

b) There is a rule that says if the Grand Trunk Rail Line does not connect to Montreal by 1850 you loose

c) There is a rule that says only by taking over Grand Trunk can you connect because Champlain cannot get access rights to Upper Canada

d) There is a rule that says if you ever fail to make profits specifically with the Molsons Brewery you lose.

- Hence if you do not take control of the Grand Trunk you lose because you do not connect to Montreal

- If you do Connect Grand Trunk to Montreal then you don't own the Champlain Rail Line

- If you don't own the Champlain Railline then you don't make industry profits from industries controlled by Champlain Rail lines which includes the Molson's Brewing Company

- If you do not make industry profits for the Grand Trunk Rail Line from the Champlain owned Molson's Brewery you lose

...and no you can't buy the Champlain Rail line in the first year you take over the Grand Trunk rail line. Champlain Rail Line is about 8 times the size of Grand Trunk.

Basically, if it is general gameplay advice I don't need it ... I need to know what specifically in this scenario triggers:

a) Access to the Victoria Bridge
b) what event causes you to switch ownership from Champlain to Grand Trunk if such an event exists
c) how to stop the scenario checking if you made a profit with Molson's Brewery when you are not the chairman of the Champlain rail line.

Just to reiterate...my problem is not the general industry profits trigger. By the time I leave the Champlain rail line they are making easy a million a year in industry profits. This is a different lose condition that requires that the player's company always makes a profit with Molson's. So when I lose Molson's usually made huge money but it made it for the rail company that controls it - Champlain Rail - and not for the rail line I currently control...The Grand Trunk.

[RulerofRails]

Ok. I will just answer the questions.

a) Victoria bridge will be opened end of January 1860. However, you can open it before 1860 if you haul a load of Steel (Steel Mill introduced in 1856, IIRC). Note: It's not that hard to sneak a bridge in on the lower edge of said territory. That can be done at game start, but may not be wise to beef up Champlain.

b) There is no such event. My old post suggested such, but I was confusing with Warrington Wire. Sorry again about that.

c) The text of the event called "Lose 3" mentions "your brewery." But the event checks for >$50k industry profit at your CURRENT company. This event only checks for the first 3 years (end of year). A potential fix would be to make Morton Brewery into a separate company, with loss events if you merged with it.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Great...thanks Ruler of Rails. With this I think I can get through the scenario.

[Grandma Ruth]

Looking at TM for the first time in twelve years, how time flies! So I'm a bit late to the party on this scenario. I wonder if I've got the final, final version as it seems to be a bit different from what people are discussing here. Maybe these things have been put right and I've not picked up on it.

The really annoying thing is that the status page says you have to haul 200 carloads but in fact the win only requires 100. At the end I had 144 and 132, but I thought I was looking for 200. So I was very surprised to win! (It says 100 in the briefing so it was my own fault for not reading it properly.) I much prefer games where you win immediately you meet the targets rather than having to wait till the end - unless there's a surprise destruction event at the last minute (there's an idea?!!).

The other weird thing is that I got messages saying "you now have access to X territory" when I already had that access. That would be because I'd bought companies with that access and got it that way, I think. Also some of the engines "became available" when I already had them. Maybe the engine thing is to do with the core of RT3 itself and couldn't be changed, but the access could have been checked for, I'm sure. Didn't make any difference to the gameplay, anyway.

After a few false starts, I remembered the way to win almost any scenario is to have (a) control of as many companies as possible and (b) loadsamoney! So I got control of all three companies, took the chairmanship of Grand Trunk and made it the only surviving company. Then I discovered the Creamery, a building that doesn't require any extra resources, just milk, so I sold the brewery and built a Creamery. I had done this by 1846. Then, thinking about hides, I built a couple of meat packing plants. I could have thought about flour mills as well, but I didn't because by now, frankly, I was bored.

The last few years were just ignoring the trains I had set to "all freight" and "all express" and frantically hauling the required goods. I had $25,660 cash at the end, no debt and 51 trains. 6 any express, 5 any freight, 2 any cargo and the rest custom hauling the required things. I didn't do anything with the US trains, just ignored them altogether once I'd bought the company and then connected right at the end. I had enough money to not be bothered about making a "good" route, just a straight line from A to B.

I'm afraid I wasn't much impressed with this scenario, though I have nothing but admiration for nedfumpkin for the work he's done, not just on Trainmaster, but on other aspects of RT on the technical side. I hope he'll come back - I took a long break when life was busy and came back when I was retired, maybe he'll do the same.