TM - Juice Train

[Stoker]

So shipyards produce Sand because 1 in 1,000 ships is a dredge? So I guess having a school produce Rockets because 1 in 1,000 students becomes a rocket scientist would make sense too. I understand now that the Textiles>Glass function is part of this map and not of TM , but it still makes no sense.

Edit to add:
Ned said:

Glass Factory (1800) – $1,600,000 – Ç$910,000
1800 – 1860
2 Glass  1 Sand + 1 Logs
1800 – 1919
2 Glass  1 Sand + 0.5 Coal
1910 – >
3 Glass  1 Sand + 0.3 Chemicals + 0.1 Machinery
1920 – >
3 Glass  1 Sand + 0.1 Aluminum + 0.1 Machinery

Basically the things that actually make glass in real life. Machinery is included because glass construction is heavily dependent on it and it needs constant replacement.

To my knowledge Glass production still requires fuel, even today. Are you burning Chemicals and Aluminum for fuel ?

[Blackhawk]

I understand now that the Textiles>Glass function is part of this map and not of TM , but it still makes no sense.

I didn't know what a port can exchange is supposed to make sense. Seems logical enough to believe that if you export one item, in exchange they'll import an item they have, creating a "production" at the port. At a warehouse that's harder to believe. It's not like the original RT3 scenarios necessarily had port production that made sense. Look at the Japan Earthquake map for example:

autos --> oil
fruit --> meat
fruit --> aluminum

[Stoker]

I understand the concept of exchanging one cargo for another. However, I am not a mindreader. I was making a comment on your statement "textiles back to Miami for them to be made into glass." I now see that you had incorrectly stated what you meant to convey. As a side note, (getting back to industry chains making"sense") where is the glass coming from in Miami? Are bottles washing up on the shore? All of the warehouse production flows you pointed out in JapanQuakes make sense, as the item being supplied is produced in the area where the items are exchanged.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't "incorrectly" state what I meant. Technically it is part of the port's "production" so it could be said it is made into glass, or produced, or exchanged, or exported and glass is imported, or generated etc. I could have clarified it and added "at the port" in Miami, but if someone had played the map and was looking for a walkthrough of the map for help, they would probably understand that it was referencing the port in Miami, as without knowing what the ports in Miami supply or demand they will be completely lost in the map itself and my "rough" walkthrough of how I proceeded would not be enough as they would need a more in-depth walkthrough, and as I said at the end of the post, it was only a rough guide and for more specifics just ask.

[Stoker]

You don't need to get bent out of shape there dude. RELAX. You and Ned are WAAAY too defensive when someone makes a comment on anything. It is just a habit of mine that when somebody clearly states something in English that I assume that is what they meant.You stated that "textiles are MADE INTO GLASS". Now you say that is not what you meant, and at the same time you say that you didn't make an incorrect statement. It has to be one or the other. Perhaps the next time I read something that you have written I should just assume that you mean something else altogether.

[Hawk]

Maybe you should relax Stoker. The way I read the last few posts you're the one getting bent out of shape and misreading BH.

[Stoker]

Relax I shall Hawk, thank you for suggesting that. For the record I didn't misread anything, I commented on something that was clearly stated and made no sense and was rebuffed for doing so. I now see that anything other than a glowing endorsement of TM will be greeted with hostility ("killing the messenger"), therefore I will refrain from making any comments on the topic at all in the future as I had managed to do in the past.

[Hawk]

It looks to me that you're the one that started getting an attitude, but you said you would refrain from any further comments so that is quite acceptable to me.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't see you added this while I was typing my previous response:

"As a side note, (getting back to industry chains making"sense") where is the glass coming from in Miami?"

If it needs a location, the Virgin Islands, perhaps the rum companies had some excess rum bottles to sell off or maybe it's a limited edition of custom made bottles. Alternatively the U.S. could be sending its version of high quality cotton/high thread count/Egyptian cotton textiles to somewhere in Europe, like the United Kingdom and in exchange the Europeans are trading glass from their glass factories.

I now see that anything other than a glowing endorsement of TM will be greeted with hostility ("killing the messenger")

I agree there can be some flaws with it, like I thought the bio-diesel plants were too efficient, however, for the industry to be profitable based on the cargo prices it had to be that efficient. So I'll imagine it's just being subsidized by the government of the country and that's how it has become profitable. I also said I wasn't thrilled with all the monkeys, and then a few monkey/chimp based TM maps. In neither case was I greated with hostility.

However, despite TM being a game that relies on a more realistic cargo chain, I don't think it's entirely feasible for every industry to require every input to produce something. Otherwise you'd need to have a vast railroad network that can draw in all the required resources before you can produce something. And since industry profits are a significant part of your revenue, it would be more difficult to expand/slower to create that vast network to gain all the resources. I suppose you could require coal/fuel for a glass factory, but then to make everything even more realistic you'll need to require buildings use electricity so you'll have to supply the power plants with enough coal/fuel as well, and how do you account for natural gas sent by pipe? While it might add to more realism, there's likely a line between realism and enjoyability/playability and a question of how much micromanaging is too much? Which is a question for the mod maker to make and not me.

[Blackhawk]

I started out from Miami, my first connections were to West Palm Beach and Orlando. Then I expanded to Tampa, but didn't deliver any glass there until I had purchased both bottling plants....then I supplied it only with glass.

Then I built a paper mill at Tampa, connected to Gainsville, then Savannah. Got my finances in order, then bought the Electronics plant and supplied it from West Palm. Next I connected to New York and started shipping 5 load trains of food there. Then I began filling in.

I also put an Oil refinery at Gainsville, two bakeries at Tampa, and a flour mill where the logs are. Then I connected to Talahassee, and St Augustine.

Now I'm working around the Birmingham area preparing to start shipping food to New York. It's around 1988.

I am still not finished, and will start over on the new version. But first I have figured out something involved with the German version, so I am going to do that first. Then start over.

--------------

That's an interesting way to start, I hadn't thought of doing some of the things you mentioned, especially since I think I usually focus more on the North than the South initially. I wonder how much of a difference being able to build bakeries makes. I may just have to replay my own map and build a lot of bakeries to see how much faster the objectives can be achieved, or if several bakeries would distract me from supplying the cereal factory.

If I remember correctly, the logging camps and oil wells appear in Florida and the Southeastern U.S. are spawned rather than placed by me. So in a future play through of the scenario you may have to change some of what you've done. It's also a good idea to buy an oil well or coal mine if it is essential to one of your industries just in case it decides to disappear.

If you're around the Birmingham/Montegomery area around 1988, it sounds like you are about on track. Checking my saved game, at the end of 1988 I had sent 48 loads of food to New York, had $42 million in industry profits, an average speed of 47, and 121 loads of food shipped out of Tampa. It looks like I connected the cereal factory sometime in 1987, but when I loaded a saved game from late 1988 I did not buy the cereal factory yet, so I'm guessing the factory wasn't fully supplied for at least another year. Montegomery was connected to Augusta (I went around the hill that Atlanta was on, to keep my speed up, and I also had a coal mine appear by the edge of the hill so I put a chemical plant there.) Then I connected Montegomery to Tallahassee. The Northern connection I used to bring in paper from Virginia Beach, since Virginia Beach was on the way back from New York I'd have a train stop here after delivery food from Montegomery. Then I used the Southern connection thru Tallahassee to bring in Sugar, Rice, and Grain from West Palm Beach area.

[nedfumpkin]

The bakeries aren't really doing that much. If anything they are mking my food trains top out at 5 cars a bit sooner.

I'm also running a separate line from Tamp to New York for most of the route. This is to lessen traffic and allow mt trains to run at top speed for most of the way. I'd gotten to about 47 loads of food delivered the last I checked, but the cereal plant was just coming online. So I hadn't hauled from there.

-----

On another note....the Chimps were introduced as players to allow for fictional players without having real photos of people, and not always being stuck on using the same old dudes. The idea was to have obvious nobodies for when you don't want a real person. Monopoly man was included because I plan on doing a scenario based on a Monopoly board with four railroads.

Of course, and as can be seen from the Campaign files 2 zip, old players can be re-introduced into the game if needed, or even new players if desired.

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The reason the shipyard produces sand is because otherwise the only source would be the sand pit. I think some mines also produce a bit, but the only reason was to have an alternate source for sand. This way sand can be included as a cargo without using sandpits. Service towers demand sand for the trains.

[Blackhawk]

The bakeries aren't really doing that much. If anything they are mking my food trains top out at 5 cars a bit sooner.

I'm also running a separate line from Tamp to New York for most of the route. This is to lessen traffic and allow mt trains to run at top speed for most of the way. I'd gotten to about 47 loads of food delivered the last I checked, but the cereal plant was just coming online. So I hadn't hauled from there.

I don't think I had a separate rail line for Tampa to NY, but that might be a good idea. I did have a separate rail line from Tallahassee to Tampa but the 2 lines connected south of Gainsville so trains from West Palm beach could cross over.

I'm curious do you remember which locomotive upgrade did you chose at the start of the scenario?

On another note....the Chimps were introduced as players to allow for fictional players without having real photos of people, and not always being stuck on using the same old dudes. The idea was to have obvious nobodies for when you don't want a real person. Monopoly man was included because I plan on doing a scenario based on a Monopoly board with four railroads.

Of course, and as can be seen from the Campaign files 2 zip, old players can be re-introduced into the game if needed, or even new players if desired.

A scenario based on Monopoly. That sounds like an interest project.
And I fully understand the need for a picture for fantasy people, and there's nothing wrong with monkeys. At the time it was just monkey/chimp overload with a few monkey based scenarios coming out at the same time

Edit: I've uploaded one of my saved games from 2010 on an earlier playtest of this map in case anyone wanted to see how I connected some cities. But the file size is 10.8 megs so I couldn't upload it onto the forum but you can download it from this link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?julju4vyyyo

[nedfumpkin]

At first I selected acceleration since in most scenarios with a speed requirement aceleration helps you more than overall speed. But I noticed that the SOO locos (FP45s) which I started with were breaking down alot So I then went with reliability, and I've stick with that.

[Blackhawk]

At first I selected acceleration since in most scenarios with a speed requirement aceleration helps you more than overall speed. But I noticed that the SOO locos (FP45s) which I started with were breaking down alot So I then went with reliability, and I've stick with that.

I think I also went with reliability as the FP45s have a tendancy to break down a lot and the Double FP45s were useful for the NY to Tampa runs. I thought about acceleration but I figured the ability to gain an acceleration increase by shipping electronics would be enough. Are you sure the SOO engines are the FP45s? I thought the SOO were SD-40-2s and had a high reliability rating? I also used a few DD40AX's on key routes as they had a nice mix of acceleration, speed, and reliability, although they were fairly expensive. Also despite it being the modern age, I still used caboses on almost every train to cut down on breakdowns.

[nedfumpkin]

You're right the SOOs are Sd-40s...and you're also right that they have a high rating for reliability, But for some reason they kept breaking down on me so I only bought 3 in the beginning, and then all double FP45s (Santa Fe). I stayed with them exclusive after that and replaced and Sd 40s when I had the cash. Must've been made on Fridays. :)

[Blackhawk]

Strange that your SD40s broke down so often, maybe you got some of the last SD40s or some new SD40-2's and all the bugs weren't worked out of them.

Early on if you're desperate for a cheap engine the E-7 isn't a bad choice, although for 90k more I'd go with the FP-9's, since they have decent speed, acceleration, and reliability. With their above average acceleration they are also a decent early choice for trains that will be making frequent stops.

The future problem you'll face is when the FP45 doubles are no longer available in the early 1990s and you're struggling to figure out what to replace them with as they age and break down too often. They are indeed great for speed but costly to operate as you may have to replace them with some frequency. Although if you said you had multiple rail lines, a breakdown probably won't hurt your speed as much as if you were only using one line where all the other trains will be waiting.

I have to say I am enjoying having made a scenario and learning how someone else is playing it, since it seems several approaches you took were different than how I went about it, and yet for the most part it seemed we had comparable haulage numbers.

[Hawk]

But the file size is 10.8 megs so I couldn't upload it onto the forum but you can download it from this link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?julju4vyyyo

The size limit for file attachments is set at 15 MB.

[Blackhawk]

But the file size is 10.8 megs so I couldn't upload it onto the forum but you can download it from this link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?julju4vyyyo

The size limit for file attachments is set at 15 MB.

Really? or did you just change that? Cause when I attempted to upload it it said the File size was limited to 10 mb or smaller.

[Hawk]

It's 10 MB for Private Messages but 15 MB in posts.
If it didn't work in a post please let me know because it should.

[Blackhawk]

"The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 10 MiB."

Just tried attaching it again and I get that error message.