Germany

Discuss about strategies used for the default RT3 scenarios.
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Germany Unread post

The following text is a compilation of what was salvaged from the old Gathering Forum. It contains postings from several different people.
Thanks goes out to Wolverine for putting this all together.

Hawk


Germany
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, i've met all the requirements for Gold except that I can't get three lousy MPH.
I'm in the Germany scenario, have a good pile of cash, 43 cities, and almost $20 mil in industry profits.
But I can't get above 17 MPH.
I've upgraded all my locos (in fact I duped the game at one point and used the ORCA cheat, that got me to 18MPH after two years.).
I've tried shortening my trains to 3 cars + dining.
All I can think of now is to kill off all my trains except one, set it on a really short run and wait. Of course this will drain my treasury and my wallet.
Is this considered a "fair" way to win?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually a long run will serve you better. A train that gets to maintain a high speed for a long time will increase the average speed. Also, having too many water towers will slow down your trains, as they will refill almost twice as much if there is always a tower nearby (filling at 40-45% full as opposed to 5-10% full).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Double track will help if you have many trains waiting to load/unload.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put the towers and sheds on a spur and waypoint your engines to them. But have no cars on the engines when doing this. Also use fewer of them. When a tower or shed is put on the consist this forces it to fill up even if more than half full. Thus you are ready for a long haul after doing this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote: Put the towers and sheds on a spur and waypoint your engines to them. But have no cars on the engines when doing this. Also use fewer of them. When a tower or shed is put on the consist this forces it to fill up even if more than half full. Thus you are ready for a long haul after doing this.

Actually What I usually do is have a "tail" beyond a terminal with the service and maintenance buildings there, and waypoint the train after it's unloaded. For stations, I use a stub track as you suggest, same orders.
At this point in a scenario I'm usually running only passengers on high-value run. On the UK map even a small town generates huge amounts of passenger traffic that isn't bothered by demand. I've been able to run eight 7-car/diner consists out of Kingston-on-Hull alone.
And I always double track choke points or even entire ROW if I have the money since I can't be bothered to keep fiddling with priorities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sometimes use the tail method early in the game. But then when I expand in that direction I end up with the buildings on the mainline. So I curve the tail so when I go out straight later in the game I don't run through the service buildings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This may seem silly, but if you put an "extension" as such at the end of a station, and your train travelled at 3-5mph let's say because it's just starting and stopping really, would that not count as a "train run" of 3mph and affect your average MPH? Would almost make sense to have it farther away so the train can reach some kind of speed..
Maybe this is dependant on distance travelled though? An explanation of the logic here might be in order
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's been explained before I think. If you have the maintenance stations at the middle of the track, the train may not get up to full speed before it reaches the middle and has to stop. But if the maintenance is done at the beginning of the trip, then the train can maintain a high speed for the whole trip. The average speed is much higher, even if there are some stretches where it is only "3 mph".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dug this thread out of the mothballs because I just had a chance to play Germany. Man, that's a nice map. There are an incredible amount of cities and city connections are part of the medal goal.
I find myself really disliking the required mph goals though. It was freight in this one, and express in Orient Express. I don't care for the disincentive that hangs there to minimize use of the one being tested.
I used the spur method for service and ran only fast, long distince freight. In fact the passengers on my line were a bit annoyed because the express traffic I set at the second priority. They had to wait on a siding while the freight went past.
I avoided my usual tactic of short feeder lines for specific industries because the trains couldn't get up to full speed and it knocked down the average too much. This is one that could stand an edit into a different game.
The medal goals were a little juxtaposed as well, requiring a minimum Lifetime Industry Profit. That allows purchasing of profitable industries even if you don't serve them. A little bogus when compared to the story line that we needed to support the German Industry. In fact, the mph goal did just the opposite because it discouraged running too many freights, for fear of congestion.
A better goal would have been a minimum amount of freight hauling profits. If they wanted to stick with the mph goal, it would have kept the game honest and played better into the story line of the map.
Nevertheless, it is a beautiful map.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, I find that using spur lines carefully enough really won't hurt your overall freight loads, if you are using double lines.
If all of your trains are basically identical on a route, and you have a double line, then you can run a lot of trains on that line and they will not interfere with each other.
And you can get some real good throughput if you have two stations in each of two major cities, for example.

A-\ /--C
-----------------
B-/ \--D

Where A/B are in one city and C/D are in another. Odds are very slim, if all trains can get up to speed on the main line, that they will run into each other and cause a loss in average speed.
I use this technique a lot, especially if I want to carry a lot of cargo and keep the average speed high.
And if you get really rich, you can double the amount of lines and stations in the example above. I've done that, too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There isn't much you can do. IMO, making spur lines to put your services on is tedious and inconsistent with what the game designers intended.
Trains really do have TOO low of an average MPH to be realistic. You end up with barely any difference in avg. mph between slower and faster trains, for instance.
I'm convinced they threw in cheese engines like the Trans-Euro and the super diesel's and electrics that go 300mph because the scenario Tex-Mex et al would be darn near unwinnable without them.
Something is very wrong with all this, it's been enough to convince me to stop playing the game. Sure, the steam era is great and the avg. mph doesn't affect it to much, but once you hit 20th century I no longer feel like I am doing anything remotely realistic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the game is designed to best capture the birth through golden age of rail history. Could be that when it came to making a sacrifice in playability, the latter part of the 20th century took the hit. Kind of like the RRs themselves.
Also, while perhaps inconsistent with what the game intends me to do, imho the spur and siding lines make the servicing more realistic. As many have said, why should a trainload of passengers wait mid-trip for the loco to get it's maintenance and oiling? I agree that it is a tedious process with a great deal of micromanaging for the first train (i.e. the others can be copied).
btw, when I do this I found the easiest (read: least tedious) way for me to set the route is:
1. Click the 1st station
2. Click the 2nd station
3. Ctrl-Click the 2nd stations service (water drop)
4. Click the 2nd station
5. Click the 1st station
6. Ctrl-Click the 1st station's service (water drop)

Then I enter the Consist set up and:
x - set the consist for all routes
click max 0
click a caboose
then unclick the x for set consist for all routes
finally I set the real cargo on items 1 and 4
This process avoids the annoying four any cargo that seem to show up all the time on the route listing for the trip to the service tower.
Of course, that's when I select the engine and click BUY and get the message that the engine costs more that I can currently afford. Time to get a bond and start over.
Finally, as many have already said, I find that putting the Maint Facility just before the Service Tower on the spur allows the engine to pick up oil when it gets below half.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can never get the spur lines long enough to show up on the mini-map. Not without making the spur ridiculously long.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote: I can never get the spur lines long enough to show up on the mini-map. Not without making the spur ridiculously long.
I think you need to use the button for adding stations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can zoom in on the mini map, and you can also expand it so it takes up more space on the screen. Both options make it easier to add spur lines. Gathering
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're trying to set a trip to a water tower or maintenace facility, all you need to do is hold the control key down and hover the cursor over the map in the general area of the structure. You really don't need to see the spur. When you're right over the structure, the water tower's "drop" will highlight, or the maintenance facility's "wrench" will highlight. Clicking at that time will add them directly to the route.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Several comments on this scenario.
1. The Stirling train is much better than the Duke, buy only these unless you want a cheap low priority express. I think its better acceleration is the key as upgrading to the later newer supposedly faster loco(HE-2 something) resulted in slower overall speeds as it has worse acceleration than the Stirling.
2. Choose level cities to connect-obvioulsy.
3. Spur without spurs to conserve track!. Place your water at one end and the service at the other( on the main line) , route your train to these from the adjcent station so they are not pullling anything for these very short excursions. You have to make sure though with a longer route that the trains do not pull up at the water/service while carrying loads, that may necessitate a further water at the service end. I havn't worked out the exact limit of track but short towns were no problem to get 24 mph average. later on with longer routes I still maintained 24.
4. double track the stations to avoid congestion there.
5. I only needed 1 goods train /connection added low priority express if profitable. The good thing about 1 train is that it will take the most profitable stuff first so a 2nd train will always make less profit than the first as well as slow down your average.
I finished end of 1889. with 24 mph
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i only have the game for a few days now,and i wanted to try the germany scenario.
i looked at the teretories and it said i dont have any rights in austria and that it would be imposible to get them.
after a while i get a message that germany,austria and italy have formed an alliance and that i now have full rights in austria.but when i look on the terretorie map it still says i dont get accses.
then i get a message that i should deliver 20 cargos to austria,an be a true patriot.
is this a bug or am i missing something?
thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's not a bug.
When you started your game you selected to start as early as possible didn't you?
Yes you did. Anyway.
Italy, Germany and Austria during World War 2 were part of the Axis Powers and there for gave you the rights to the land.
If you want to be able to have rights to the land, by buying it obviously, you have to start after 1945.
It happend to me before too.
Good Luck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bug for sure.
Either Austria wants you to import goods, or they don't. (no matter what the current year is)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it is a bug but you can still do it (haul stuff to Austria). Just do it later in the game, make it your last objective to complete. I played it many times and it in the beginning it doesn't function as it should but eventually it gets to where it is supposed to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually no, this is very much a bug. I was just testing the map out and it seems like everything works fine with 1 player, but if there are any AI on the map the territory event gets confused, and I'm not sure why.
Anyway, until this bug is fixed I discovered 3 work arounds, you can take your pick.
1 - Don't play the map with any AI. This is the easiest solution, as nothing special is needed for it to work fine.
2 - Start your company AFTER all the AI have started their company. This means you'll probably have to wait about 6 months before starting a company, but as long as you start the last one, the event works fine.
3 - Edit the map using the editor. This is the most complicated solution of course, but still isn't too hard. Find the Event labeled Open Aus, and change the Option "Test against all companies" to "Test against human companies only." Save the map and you should be good to go!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I stand mistaken.
Sorry guys. I must have mis-understood you.
low_grade
Dispatcher
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 3:02 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Germany Unread post

Ha ha! Just played this for the first time on hard, got Gold with like 9 years to go. Of course as everyone above has noticed, the average freight hauling speed is the challenge.

Started the scenario a little sloppy. Went with Dukes from Munich and around there, also picked up a DX Goods for grabbing some cattle and produce nearby. So, my early speed average was about 17mph. Since I'm familiar from other scenarios with how difficult it is to bump your speed average up if you let it stay low for a few years, I spent the rest of the scenario focusing on doing everything possible, short of the annoying spur or routing to services tactic, to get my speed up. So here's what I did:

Only build routes where track is mostly level, though it's a nice trick to have a short grade up to a station, because it doesn't really hurt the speed of the trains coming in, but it jump starts the trains going out. Same for services.
Go with only Stirlings, and set the consist to 2 cars plus caboose. At first I was going with 3 cars, but average speed was still only 21 for the year, and I wanted to push it to 22 if I could.
Wait to expand until after I can double track what I have.

I did make a couple of exceptions, like running dukes and vittorios in some rough spots in austria that I needed for the hauling bonus. Eventually upgraded these to S3s, though that was in like the last year of the game for me. When speed average finally bumped over 20, I had a little over $10M in industry profits and like 28 cities. Final January of issuing stock saw me just building small stations and connection close together cities in twos and threes to get the final 12 connections, never intending to run a train between them.
RayofSunshine
CEO
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: Germany Unread post

Searching the Forum, I found a considerable number of references to Germany. But it took more searching to find, what I believe is the senario "GERMANY". Some of the goals seemed to fit, as others were based on "unifying", which was not the trend of this scenario.

I did have an amount of enjoyment, but did not have the problems mentioned in the previous post. Playing the scenario for fun, in the Expert level, my GOLD medal came a few years short of the deadline. Germany is not a difficult scenario and the goals could have occurred at an earlier date, but I only purchased "1" industry, which was a Brewery. A good profiteer, as I gave it a good suppy of grain. However, that was what held up the GOLD, as it took time to complete the LIP requirement.

Unlike the previous mentioned post, I operated 21 engines, 2 of which were the S3s, operating around Austria, and the rest were Sterlings. Sterlings had the better speed, and in the beginning prior to other traffic, and then maintenance stops, I managed 31mph, and managed to mantain a good speed, ending the game with an avg 24mph

My main hub was "Berlin", and a AI managed to 'tie up traffic" as I had my maintenance working for them as well, even with dbl track. Mostly running with a consist of 2-5, I did manage some 2-8 on on long hauls. That helped the revenue to continue expansion

Being that it is not a difficult scenarion to either play, or get the GOLD, I enjoyed its concept and recommend it to newer members. Helps get some experience on how to set up a system of operation to becoming a Tycoon. :salute:
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

The Germany map Unread post

I was looking at the Germany map and the event for 40 Cities has the wrong test value. It was set to 75 in the map that I have.

I also noticed that this map comes out of the box with a 15% tax on any new track ... not nice at all. So I slapped the Kaiser's hand and told him to keep his grubby paws out of my cash box until I had at least 250 miles of track laid. (He'd have to finance his mistresses using someone else's money. It finally got through to him when I told him that I would be buying my tracks from America if he didn't lower the initial cost of German tracks to my company.) ... and changed it to "0".

Playing this scenario on HARD and trying to gain wealth by buying industries for the first few years just doesn't cut it for me. I can't garner enough wealth to make up for the interest payments on the bonds.
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: The Germany map Unread post

What's the name of that map? There's a few in the archives that are based in Germany.
Hawk
Shamough
Conductor
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: The Germany map Unread post

Just "Germany". I think it came with RT3.
Card carrying member of the original RailRoad Flat Earth Society.

If it ain't flat it ain't flat enough!
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: The Germany map Unread post

*!*!*! I wasn't even thinking abut the default maps. ^**lylgh

You're right though. The event is wrong.
Germany.jpg
Hawk
MoridinUK
Hobo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:49 am

Re: The Germany map Unread post

Hawk wrote:*!*!*! I wasn't even thinking abut the default maps. ^**lylgh

You're right though. The event is wrong.
Germany.jpg
Do I need to manually fix this before trying to play the map? I'm running 1.06!

Edit: yes I do and that was much easier than I thought!
Edit again: there is no mention of avg mph for freight in the gold, silver, bronze requirements. So why so much talk of it here?
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: The Germany map Unread post

MoridinUK wrote:Do I need to manually fix this before trying to play the map? I'm running 1.06!
You do realize that maps made in versions of RT3 prior to 1.06 may not play as intended in 1.06. That's one of the reasons for the thread about multiple installs.

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=2363

It's probably best not to play the default maps in 1.06.
Hawk
User avatar
RulerofRails
CEO
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Germany Unread post

MoridinUK wrote:there is no mention of avg mph for freight in the gold, silver, bronze requirements. So why so much talk of it here?
This is the briefing.
Germany briefing.jpg
Germany briefing.jpg (13.41 KiB) Viewed 7303 times
Also the LTD (lifetime) average freight speed (what the medal checks) is visible in the ledger after you start a company, so you can keep an eye on how you are performing.
MoridinUK
Hobo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:49 am

Re: Germany Unread post

That is not the briefing I was given, it was about connecting a number of German states and PNW:

Image

Is that caused by running it in 1.06? I had no idea that 1.06 wouldn't run the scenarios properly.. I shall have to try to get a multi install then... :( Though I like being able to move stuff at a loss!) I had assumed 1.06 would fix some problems rather than just mod/extend the game... :) should have done more research not to fight steam to give me a second install...

actually in 1.05 it says this too, have I confused my scenarios? "The state of Germany" in the campaign...
User avatar
RulerofRails
CEO
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Germany Unread post

This thread is about the stand-alone scenario called "Germany". I don't know of a dedicated thread for the campaign chapter entitled "The State of Germany", although it features in the thread called "Trouble with Germany" (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2188&hilit=german+states#p20922).

What you said in the first edit made me think that you had made the correction. If so, you must have been playing the right map, otherwise my first idea was a confusion of the two. In my opinion, 1.06 is not so much a patch as a small mod. The new engines and haul-at-a-loss make many 1.05 scenarios easier than intended. If you want the experience that the creator designed the map to give it's better to play the 1.05 scenarios and the campaign in 1.05, and the scenarios that state that they need 1.06 in that version. I hope you figure out how to get multiple installs working.
MoridinUK
Hobo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:49 am

Re: Germany Unread post

RulerofRails wrote:This thread is about the stand-alone scenario called "Germany". I don't know of a dedicated thread for the campaign chapter entitled "The State of Germany", although it features in the thread called "Trouble with Germany" (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2188&hilit=german+states#p20922).

What you said in the first edit made me think that you had made the correction. If so, you must have been playing the right map, otherwise my first idea was a confusion of the two. In my opinion, 1.06 is not so much a patch as a small mod. The new engines and haul-at-a-loss make many 1.05 scenarios easier than intended. If you want the experience that the creator designed the map to give it's better to play the 1.05 scenarios and the campaign in 1.05, and the scenarios that state that they need 1.06 in that version. I hope you figure out how to get multiple installs working.
Ah this explains it! Thanks. Yes I was thinking about it this morning and figured that 1.06 is an extension or mod rather than a patch! Is it just that it will make the scenarios easier or will it break them (make them impossible) At the moment I really don't mind a little easier!

Yes I've got it all working in separate installs, 1.05 in steam, 1.06 and tm, quite excited about tm but not sure what maps I can play on! I don't think there is Britain for TM is there?

Actually I've kinda derailed this thread too much all ready! gulp... *hides from hawk*
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 6503
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: Germany Unread post

As RoR said, because of some of the changes made in 1.06, maps made in other versions will most likely be easier if played in 1.06. Kind of like using cheat codes in other games. ^**lylgh
BTW! 1.06 maps will not play in earlier versions of RT3. They won't even show up in the selection list.

The only maps that will play in TM are maps made for and in TM, which can be found in the TM section.

http://hawkdawg.com/rrt/rrt3/TM/tm-map_index.htm
Hawk
diegoami
Cat
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:12 am

Re: Germany Unread post

Image

I finally managed to beat this scenario on Normal, after 13 years, and connect almost all major german towns.
It wouldn't a problem to connect the missing ones if I played on. I ignored Austria.
I bought about 15 industries, and I have 110 trains that I tediously micromanage.

The saved files can be found in this directory : http://www.amicabile.com/rt3/germany/ . The last save file is called http://www.amicabile.com/rt3/germany/1891-Jan-Final.zip.
User avatar
RulerofRails
CEO
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Germany Unread post

Welcome, diegoami, (*!!wel

I took a look at a couple of your saved games. I say, WOW! great effort in trying to find every advantage you can. !!clap!!

You are the first person I have seen micro-managing trains routed through spur maintenance for the pure reason to get more profit.
(I have never done it.) Even taking the care to rename those you are stopping, WOW! I also admire the strategy of buying industries that are established but currently unprofitable to ensure the cheapest possible purchase price and then using train service to supply them.

I have posted quite a few times about micro-managing and how I have found success in a modified form of this strategy which is mainly about limiting supply. Plain micro-managing on a normal network feels like competing with the auto consist manager. Of course, if you have some questions, ask away, otherwise, I am repeating myself. I must say that I never tried micro-managing on a spur maintenance setup.

All strategies are valid. Selective picking of opportunities for certain strategies, even though they are inferior as main "core" strategies, is often the way I get the best results. "Core" strategies I would consider here are using industry building and good passenger service (especially among the close cities/towns) to limit economic dependence on freight to the point where I don't need special efforts to make the speed goals.

Maybe those strategies make me lazy for taking the easy way. Main thing, though, is to find a gameplay style you enjoy. I encourage you to post more feedback on maps and share your empire-building exploits in the forums. !*th_up*!
diegoami
Cat
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:12 am

Re: Germany Unread post

Thank you for your words RulerofRails. I am sure that there are better strategies than micromanaging.
I think I have read about the strategy of limiting supply in the manual on this site and I have tried to use it, but the game still throws unpredictability at me and I haven't managed to make it work as I would like to.
I still don't feel I trust any strategy more than my personal judgement. Maybe, when I will have a deeper understanding of the game, I will feel more confident in a strategy other than micromanagement. After all, I am still a newbie.
Anyway, I just posted a video recap of my walkthrough for Germany, for those who don't wish to load my saved game, and some screenshots.
See my Railroad tycoon 3 playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... kGRF09So-A

Screenshots and saved games at : http://amicabile.com/rt3/
User avatar
RulerofRails
CEO
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Germany Unread post

I watched your recaps. I can see you put a lot effort into your games. :salute:

Micro-managing is a valid strategy, it's just that not many people enjoy it. In terms of learning more about the game, I think you might learn faster if you play maps with a lower density of resources. The fan-made maps generally tend to have lower cargo density than the default ones. There are so many good ones, but if I were to suggest one off the top of my head: Colonial India.

Once you have mastered RT3, you will probably enjoy Trainmaster which is a heavy mod of the game with much more complex industrial chains that can be played without heaps of micro-managing but has that slant.
Post Reply