Yellowstone - Beta

[moblet]

Have played this one twice and had some good fun trashing the Park. Both times on Expert, first time got Gold with only 3 months to spare (on both industry profit and pax ex-Gardiner), second time I tried much the same development sequence again and made more industry profit but fell short of Gold by 5 pax ex-Gardiner

I started in the Drummond/Tetonia area, which I selected because it had a big price differential but was easy to climb out of. I got different seedings each time meaning I built different industries first up (meat & textiles first time, lumber & paper second time) but they both worked well to get me started. Just as I broke out of the valley (took about 8 years or so to get the funds) I also bought all the dairy farms, which soon doubled in profit. I also got into the brewery business after connecting to Summit. After laying track as far as Old Faithful or Firehole I then bought/developed and broke out of Grayling using the same strategy; by now my annual profit was over $1m and I had plenty of cashflow to develop the rest of the map.

After about 15 years or so I had enough cashflow that connecting the towns in time was never going to be a problem, but $75m industry profit was looking like a stretch, so I used most of my profit to buy profitable industries from that stage onwards.

The risk with this strategy is getting enough pax out of Gardiner before the deadline. Seems to me that laying track out to Tower Junction and providing frequent service makes the biggest contribution to the Gardiner pax target, and both times, because I'd concentrated on the far end of the map, I didn't lay any track out of Gardiner until there were only about 10 years to go. I tried micromanaging the pax out of Gardiner but it didn't work very well (the stupid pax wouldn't board an express that terminated one stop short of their desired destination). But I have at least proven that one doesn't need to start at Gardiner to reach the target.

I declined the initial loan (since that option had only been added in later to make the scenario easy) and bought the snowplough both times, but otherwise made the opposite decision on most of the other options in each play. Never bothered with trying to lay the winding tourist track between Madison and Old Faithful for the bonus as it seemed like too much work, and by the time I got any iron and coal flowing to Gardiner for the bonuses I had money coming out of my ears so I didn't need it. I built a steel mill at Alice each time to attract the iron - the second time I was a bit smarter about it and didn't build it until I had a convoy of coal trains from Flagg Ranch about to arrive - and made some money out of it late-game.

Great map and great scenario Looking forward to trying some other strategies and seeing how they go.

EDIT 4 Oct: Played again starting from Gardiner and was more successful, achieved Gold with 15 months to spare. I should mention that I issued stock 1-2 times per year, which can raise $5M p.a. or more in the later stages. I usually do this in any scenario that permits it (i.e. no PNW target) and don't believe I would have got close to this result otherwise.

[belbincolne]

Played this for the umpteenth time. How Moblet got Gold on Expert is way beyond me - I can get nowhere on Normal with many varieties of play.

First things first - I'm playing it on 1.06 and its the Beta which never seems to have been updated.

The last was my most succesful yet but the gradients, poor trains and distances beat me but mostly its Industry that I cant understand. I bought a Lumber Mill with lots of logs going to it and then a Meat Producer with loads of ranches nearby. Both in towns. I then railed between them with intermediate stations picking up cows and logs. Three trains ran with 6 loads constantly. In any other game this would give me huge profits. Here it gave me Lumber 5% LOSS and Meat about 5% profit after the first couple of years (during which time I upgraded them). When the Industry offer came along I didnt take it but did build a Brewery and bought 4 nearby grain farms - all these were (just) profitable (i.e. about 12% return) - never had enough cash to upgrade the Brewery.

Now to railing - obviously only built in summer and the cost of lines is phenomenal - as just one example it cost over $4m to get to Cooke City to get $2m back - and zilch cargo from there! Eventually I managed to connect Warm River - Flagg - Colter. The 4 trains between them were carrying $200 - 300k of goods (6 loads) but never made a penny presumably because of the distances involved. Also in my last 3 plays I never received the offer to build a loop line round ?? which on my early tries had been very profitable. I ignored the iron offer because of the advice here and because it had been useless in my earlier attempts.

This all seems to be more or less the same technique as Noblett used so why am I getting nowhere?

[Hawk]

Not that it will matter much, but have you tried the final version in the archives? It's on Page 3 of the North America section.

I wonder too if playing it in 1.06 has anything to do with it, although it shouldn't.

I haven't played it in a while but I seem to recall having better luck than that.

[belbincolne]

Well my version seems to be identical to the beta (i.e. both 5429 KB) but I've swapped and will give the new (?) one a go tomorrow

[OilCan]

Belb: I can't offer up a good reason why you have such a hard time at this game. Try the final version as Hawk suggested because several things changed between the Beta and final version. The final version has a loan offer at the start of the game which should help. Everyone has their own technique of playing a game...but that doesn't explain why prices and profits are so low for you. Try it on 1.05 version.

[moblet]

First things first - I'm playing it on 1.06 and its the Beta which never seems to have been updated.

I've only played this scenario in 1.05, so everything I wrote above applies to that. Not tried it in 1.06.

[belbincolne]

Well despite being exactly the same size file I was playing the demo and not final version up until now. I also managed to work out how to get into 1.05. This produced much easier play and I got Gold 18 months early on Normal BUT there are still some real oddities with it.

1. When I got Gold the ledger said I hadn't even reached Bronze on IP. I played on and got to Bronze level per the ledger by the end of the game 18m later. I think the reason is that the requirement is to have Industry profit EXCLUDING farms etc. My Industries were not very profitable but the farms etc supplying them were. My IP on the normal basis had probably exceeded the gold requirement long before I finally got the passenger carrying target so I suspect that the ledger was correctly set up but the Gold win was left on the usual basis of all IP (perhaps it cant be set any other way?).

2. Industry performed no better than in 1.06. Very, very odd My initial lumber / Meat Producer buy (I got exactly the same seed as in my previous try) performed exactly the same - fairly profitable for perhaps 5 years and then went into the red for the remainder of the scenario. Near the end I built a Furniture next to the Lumber - very profitable but the Lumber remained in the red. Most odd.

Still both a nice scenario and great map despite all those inclines and desecration of one of the worlds loveliest places

[RulerofRails]

I have just played this 3 times trying out medal strategies. I hadn't played it before, and once again I see I was missing out. The strategy options in this map are excellent!

My first go I used a standard approach starting in Gardiner and building industry sometimes and rail the next. The result was 18 and a half years for a medal. While playing I realized that if I waited in the first year till June before laying track I could collect the 2M credit option, the Canyon loop bonus, and the Old Faithful to Madison tourist route bonus before the end of the first summer. I needed to go in the editor to see exactly how and when things would trigger. This play I focused on expanding rail first, so I spent all the money on rails and ended up with 2M profit the first year. The second year I waited till June, then took out 5M of bonds and connected over to the corner of the map in Tetonia via Flagg Rock. I ignored industry in favor of rails and that year I brought in 7M of profit. (Better result than the next try with industry at 5M). I did expansion in summer and then saved for the rest of the year. I did buy/build a little of the best industry, but my main focus was on rails. Then after all the good routes were taken I expanded heavily into industry to meet the goal in time. I was waiting for the cheaper industry/increased production offer to appear. After my patience wore thin around 1880 or so I peeked in the editor. This set up my next try. Just after I hit the industry goal I also hit the passengers from Gardiner goal. Time taken: 16 and a half years. I had it in my mind after this that 15 years should be possible if I picked up the industry offer.

So I had another go. In order to get the industry offer, I needed to have exactly 6 stations connected at the end of a year. So I saved all the extra money until the start of the second year. I chose the Lumber option (It seems best) and then took out 5M in bonds to add to the 5M cash I had. I invested all this mainly in Lumber Mills. Because of the boost, they gave a 50% ROI investment that year. Not too shabby! I did some track laying in summer, then kept buying and building industry to make use of the cheap price. Once industry cost returned to normal, I shifted focus back towards rails. The result: a medal after 17 and a half years.

This makes this one of the best maps for strategy I have played. The medal goals are really well balanced. The passengers from Gardiner is the most difficult goal to achieve. I achieved my medals with mixed trains using the original Gardiner station. I only added my own station in the last year to get the medal. I set up my train consists coming out of Gardiner with 2, 3, or 4 (depending on the demand) cars of express and the rest mixed. This enabled me to haul many loads which would otherwise have disappeared from the map. I noticed mail gets hauled a lot on this map as it hasn't been suppressed the way passengers have.

This map has quite pronounced differences in elevation. It is well smoothed (love the painting also) so I only had a few short sections of track above 4% grade. The consequence of this terrain is that many of the towns become isolated islands of demand or supply. This can give the inexperienced problems with industry profit, however it can be used to the advantage for increased hauling profits. Without the industry offer, rails wins the contest as the main path to growth even though there are plenty of resources that would typically make industry king. The offer balances it out pretty nicely. I found that rails gave me quicker profits, but with the industry offer I ended up earning a little more later in the game.

Oilcan, I don't know if you intended for the player to get the most of the bonuses in the first year. Also did you intend for the industry offer to only be a help to a player who was having trouble? When playing I adhered to some things which I considered were the "spirit" of the game such as: not taking bonds up to 10M in one sweep before credit could be cut, only using track connected to the main network, not building a new station in Gardiner to help with the passenger goal, not dozing the demand warehouse in Gradiner to build a Steel Mill in its place, and not issuing stock.

I have enjoyed this map very much and will continue to. I was impressed with the screenshot of the test play result you posted, especially the passenger count. I think I should try to improve my strategy on the passengers some more. Maybe I will try again for a 15 year medal, nothing's impossible unless you prove it!

[OilCan]

Coincidentally, I replayed this game just last week - first time after a couple of years of not playing it.
I had forgotten some of the things that I had put into the game. They took me by surprise. Made gold after 20 years, if I recall right.
I've been to Yellowstone twice and it was interesting overlaying my mind's eye view of the park with the views on the map.

To answer your questions, I did not intend for the bonuses to be hit the first! year of play. But more power to you for being able to do it. I planned for the player to stumble upon them as they built across the map. Not all of the offers are good deals, but I don't like for a single poor choice to be a fatal error so accepting all the offers will not sink the player.

The industry aid was intended for those players who do not invest into industry as a practice. One of the game goals is industry revenue so I added an aid just for that goal.

I would say that issuing stock is well within the 'spirit' of the game, as well as building unconnected track. I have built a steel mill at Gardiner in some games. In my latest game I built a steel mill in each resource cluster and then fed one mill by robbing the other.

I'm glad you like the game so well.

[RulerofRails]

I ended up combining strategies. I picked up the bonuses the first year, making sure to only have six stations at year end. This gave me the industry offer. I took the Lumber Mill option. Then I built 10M worth of Lumber Mills and other industry. I then turned my focus back towards rails, and resisted spending money on any cheap industry except a brand new farm or two. I kept the focus on rails and passenger hauling throughout the game, with a little industry buying around year end and then saving to build track in summer.

I read your post about the little settlements on the map and found that three houses works well giving 1 load of passengers upon connection and more later. I have no definite proof, but I think passengers tend to like to travel short distances as opposed to longer ones. Sometimes I could arrange track so that these were extra stops and this probably helped to pull passengers around the map by splitting some of the longer distances. I don't claim to have passenger hauling completely dialed, but I was satisfied with my effort here. My idea was a chain and trying to get them moving in an organized way along that chain towards Gardiner. All the passengers from the route up the valley to Cooke City had to pass through Gardiner, and I am fairly sure this helped my count.

As you can see I ended up being 4 passenger cars short after 15 years. I am sure it is possible to take up the little bit of slack to find those 4 more in time, but that's close enough for now. I love how this map holds up to more serious strategic efforts. It keeps me occupied and interested without becoming long-winded even if I pick up the bonuses early. The way you set up the bonuses also is good, because while possible to get quickly, they still leave the player with some limitations. And amazingly compared to my first attempt (not knowing anything about the events), getting the bonuses early only helped me shave 3 years off my medal!

I think I did use all the bonuses, and I know that time didn't go on long enough for some of them to bite. I noticed you have some newspapers on a weekly check even though they have a game-year/month trigger. My curiosity is aroused as to why you did this?

Great map, this has been fun. Thanks for making it!

[OilCan]

I noticed you have some newspapers on a weekly check even though they have a game-year/month trigger. My curiosity is aroused as to why you did this?

Answer: sloppiness, that's the honest answer. I looked at the events again and, yes, a couple of the newspapers should have been set on a monthly check. The news about the Coltier Bay connections was purposely set for a weekly check so it would trigger soon after the connection. There is one event which I neglected to give a condition to so it will never trigger! Yellowstone was one of my earlier maps and quickly released - obviously too quickly.

Here is a screenshot of my map just minutes before ending the game with a final station at Wall Peak.

[RulerofRails]

Ok. The extra checks don't hurt performance here, so it doesn't matter.

Interesting to see your routing diagram. I see you have made connections more direct in some places, whereas, I made spurs off a more central line along the ridge between Gibbs Grove and Old Faithful. Craig Pass was an interesting connection and I ended up using a station as far up the hill as possible in an East-West orientation so I could keep the approaches level for acceleration. My original route was through Pitchstone to get to the southern reaches of the park. I thought this was a better investment early on as I could haul the Coal and Cattle from Flagg Ranch to Tetonia as well as the Milk, Clothing and Meat from the southwestern plain. In the last couple of years I added a connection from Warm River to Summit. Other than that I think we have rail in virtually all the same places. As you can see, I also used spurs out to the 2 or 3 house settlements to try to get the extra Passengers they provided released onto the map as well as to some of my logging sites (Lumber Mill, Paper Mill, Toy and or Furniture Factories). Some of the connections like Gardiner to Crowfoot I made late in the game for fun and was also hoping to get a few extra passengers.

This game most of the original Iron mines on Mirror Plateau disappeared (had 3 left). I made no special effort to connect to them quickly so prices stayed near zero for the entire game. However, new ones sprang up and in greater number than before. Some of these were located farther towards the mountains. I ended up with 15 mines there. I had built a logging site around a couple of Logging Camps located between Bridger, Barlow, and Trail Lake. In 1882 I had an Iron Mine seed right in the middle of this logging site. I didn't get around to taking advantage of it by building a Steel Mill, but I bought the mine anyway. I also failed to take advantage of all the coal available among the Huckleberry mountains. On this play there was potential for two upgraded Steel Mills if I used the trick you did of robbing one of extra resources to feed to the other and vice versa.

Interestingly, in the map overview as I was increasing the total number of passengers deliverable (I saw 73 loads) the undeliverable ones kept increasing (saw a bit over 130). Haven't paid much attention to this before, but I am puzzled by that figure. I had always assumed that these undeliverable loads were from houses on the map that were unconnected. This observation throws doubt on that theory. I was striving to bring that figure down by more service and routes for passengers (I only had a couple of dedicated express trains), mostly I was using a mix of up to 4 express and the rest set to any cargo. For interest sake I ended up with 163 trains, all Consolidations except one Duke I bought by mistake and decided to use anyway. In the past I believed that locos with better passenger appeal would draw more passengers, but the help message in the game says that only revenue is affected. Maybe the extra revenue would help to get some marginal passengers running, but I don't imagine it would be worth many loads.

I see a message saying Hawk of Tongo. From the overview, the track quota system looks interesting. I will check it out now.

[Hawk]

I see a message saying Hawk of Tongo.

Hawk of Tongo

[RulerofRails]

I meant that Hawk added the map of Tongo. Always the little things catch me! Proofread (had to Google for correct past tense) the rest and then overlooked this at the end. Sorry. The grammar is not strong with this one. I promise I'll get things right one day!

[OilCan]

Hawk of Tongo

It adds a fierceness to your moniker, a warrior tone. Maybe you should consider adopting it.

[Hawk]

I meant that Hawk added the map of Tongo. Always the little things catch me! Proofread (had to Google for correct past tense) the rest and then overlooked this at the end. Sorry. The grammar is not strong with this one. I promise I'll get things right one day!

No problem. I was just curious what you meant.

Hawk of Tongo

It adds a fierceness to your moniker, a warrior tone. Maybe you should consider adopting it.

Hmmm? Well, fierceness isn't really me.