New scenario for testing Northern Nevada

[belbincolne]

(Following written before I'd read your latest post Moab)

You're hardly a beginner Ray !! I didnt get a depression to start with although I've now reached 1902 and have had one for at least 10 years. Remember depressions are good for building track - cost is 80% Normal whereas in boom its 120%. Therefor build track then and Industry in boom. However I think its something to do with way RT3 is loaded onto my computer. It cant be just different seeds at start up (there's been grain in the centre of the owned area on every start up). Initially I did issue Stock and buy it back as suggested but after some 20 years my Company was so rich I could buy stock back.

Got fed up with waiting to get free entry to territories so bought into two ($1m each) and connected lines 8 & 9 - the Almanac denies I've done so. I dont know what line 10 will be so cant do that. I own 90% of Company but am puzzled about one thing Moab. Says I'll have to start a new Company to get Gold. Cant think why but I did try a start up for one. All it got was the original entry area - and my company has already railed all that so what is it supposed to do?

[RayofSunshine]

Well Bel,
I didn't know that about the depreciation of track cost during a depression. But then I don't try to calculate the stats of the programming. That could be the reason I don't necessarily get the same results as you. But thanks for the info.
I tried some of the suggestions, and this time have only been operating in the initial 2 year area, and basically in a "normal" economy. This time I did purchase a "distillery" in either Reno or Sparks, and a "produce" to help support it. No amenities of maintenance, but still only managed to get to Battle Mtn. OH, I also issued stock twice, and 1 bond issue. I bellieved I would get some financing from Battle Mtn., but was a negative. I have 3 engines operating with a micromanaging agenda, but there are so many cities without any type of loads. The draw back is that of mostly Reno, but also Sparks and (initial starting depot) with pgrs and mail, but no destinations.

Now my assumption, there is a requirement of a border to border to be attained by 1869, at which time there will be a bonus. At least, that was the scope with the Utah scenario.

Back to square 1.

[Moabdave]

(Following written before I'd read your latest post Moab)
Got fed up with waiting to get free entry to territories so bought into two ($1m each) and connected lines 8 & 9 - the Almanac denies I've done so. I dont know what line 10 will be so cant do that. I own 90% of Company but am puzzled about one thing Moab. Says I'll have to start a new Company to get Gold. Cant think why but I did try a start up for one. All it got was the original entry area - and my company has already railed all that so what is it supposed to do?

To win gold, the Western Pacific line must be built as a separate company from any other line. However, the events triggering the user to begin construction of the Western Pacific don't fire until 1906. Although I did allow people to buy access to territories to build them early, the way the scenario is coded, no credit will be given for completing that line until the year they would become available for free. I did this intentionally, however, I did not think about the case where somebody is making money hand over fist and is bored waiting for the territory accesses to become available. It would be fairly easy to change the coding of the scenario to allow for early completion if that is annoying.

There are two ways to fix this, First, take away some of the bonus money to make the game harder, or second, take out the checks that prevent someone from getting credit for an early completed line. Which do you think would be better? As always, Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

David

[belbincolne]

Now reached final stage. Formed new company and was so rich it had $22m so could build all way from Portola to Wendover. Now tried twice. First time I refused to break link when S&P demanded I did and got booted. Second I broke it in both places (but didnt destroy all) and got booted. Could have a third try only doing central section to see what happens but then I'm not doing what previous message asked me to. Shall wait to see what you say before trying again as (maybe) you never considered possibilty that WP might be so rich it could do everything straight away (I also bought six farms and built Brewery and Distillery!).

Ray - track building is Recession 80% Depression 90% Normal 100% Improving 110% Boom 120% . Industry/farms is based on last few years profit so after a bad period price goes down so its cheapest to buy a couple of years after a recession just before it gets really profitable again. Initial price of building industry never changes so again its best to build during boom when cost of borrowing is at its cheapest. Farms / Industry are always(?) cheapest in first year of a scenario and then normally rise a lot or (if you can spot them) when they're built. New industry may be same but could be even cheaper a bit later if raw material is travelling some way to get to it (watch movement and buy soon after it starts to arrive and turns loss to profit). Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs

[RayofSunshine]

I always liked eggs Bel, but have to throw away the yokes to keep my cholestrol down. LOL But the info is of interest and will try to keep it in mind.
Right now I am sssiiitttiiinnnggg and waiting for something to happen for the last 3 years after operating the Eureka-Padisado Rwy. It is now 1875 and it seems some time for another initiative to start another railway.
Now the agenda to not by maintenance amenities. Seeing that first, the early engines don't have a high reliability as well as no maintenance to prolong their longevity, it increases their cost to operate. SO,do you replace them, e.g. when the red line hits the center of the bar, or just replace them when they crash? Or once a rwy is established within profits, to then initiate those maintenance amenities? Usually I maintain a good strategically placement of these amenities, so this is something new to me.
I have only had 1 crash in 1873, so doing well, considering.

[RayofSunshine]

I stand corrected. It is 1879, which gives me less time to complete all the requirements.

[RayofSunshine]

I jumped too soon, as the Northern Central became available in 1880.

But I did detect a possible error in the end of the yearly ledger. It states that the Carson & CO Rwy could cnn to either Houndhouse or Hazen. However, the system doesn't, or at least for me, it didn't permit the laying of track in the Truckee terr. Hence, there is not an option, and a player must cnn at Hazen. Just my opinion.

[belbincolne]

Actually I only recently discovered that after 20 years the maintenance cost of trains means they should be replaced as they cant be profitable. In a few scenarios (Sao Miguel for example) its even earlier. Hence I replaced all after about 18 years. Out of the first 30 it only meant about 10 because I'd had so many crashes most of them were new! Cant remember what happened with Northern Central. I dont think I've noticed any errors in the Ledger apart from those mentioned.

[RayofSunshine]

All right Moab,
I had this same or similar problems with the Utah scenario.
COMPLETED as shown in the yearly ledger are all those up to the NCO, which I am playing now. However, all of them are shown with the big red "X", with an "access" fee, with the exception of SP and now being played NCO. I would believe that the green "check" mark would remain to termination of the game.

A previous thread of mine, I mentioned that although the yearly ledger shows to cnn with the VT terr at Mound???? or the SP Hazan. That is not the case, as I am not able to lay track into that territory.

As to the operations of engines. A thread mentiones of operating engines for 20 years before it is unprofitable. I find that after 10 years, a Consolidation which initially has a maintenance cost of $9k a year, is now $47-50. After 15 years, in the mid $60s. Have not played it to the 20 year mark yet, although many have been replaced by that time.

I have read the RT3 Manual of OilCan, which is a great manual, but I have very little understanding of stock. In this case, the dividend. Each time I "start a new company", my cash flow decreases. Now considering that I only invest 1/2 of my finances, plus I own 1/2+ of each railroad once operated, and leaving those rwys with the highest permitted dividend, which is from $.10 - $.50 - $3.17 - $4.67 and $9.37, of which I know will depreciate in time, I have no cash for investment, although I do control each company. Somewhat understandable, but with all those stocks, my finances doesn't seem to decrease.

Could you some updates. LOL

[RayofSunshine]

Well, every thing went well until 1909. Had completed the WP requirement, even though it was the start of the Recession, but then over the next nearly 4 years, the economy crashed, and I lost all my stock, so was not able to get a chairmanship on SP, to get access to, and lay track for the Fensley route. Would have still been able to acquire the other 2 terr with the WP system, giving me 9 toward the goal. but I thought I would just make another attempt. Close, but this isn't "horse shoe". LOL

[Moabdave]

First time I refused to break link when S&P demanded I did and got booted. Second I broke it in both places (but didnt destroy all) and got booted. Could have a third try only doing central section to see what happens but then I'm not doing what previous message asked me to.

The scenario checks to see if the Western Pacific and Southern Pacific territories are connected. This works pretty well to ensure the SP and WP's track are not connected, but I have found that this check will also fire if a WP depot extends into SP territory. I found this out the hard way when my WP depot for Reno extended just over the line into SP's territory on a test run.

With that said, I am playing another test run now, this time I'm not starting new companies, except when I have to. I've found that you are right, if you only start one company, eventually you get big enough that you can buy access early, and it sucks that the ledger and scenario doesn't give credit for completing the line early. So, I've made some changes, and am testing them now. I'll add some clarifications to the scenario instructions. Please advise if you find any more nuisances so I can address them with one update. Thank you for testing the scenario. I appreciate the feedback.

Ray, I have found that with this scenario my company is much more vulnerable to recessions and depressions than most. However, I assure you it is possible to win, but yes, in my test runs, the recessions and depressions hurt and hurt hard.

[RayofSunshine]

From my testing, I realize that a "win" is possible, it is just the economy, which can be in "reality", that there are recessions and depressions. The plus, is that I didn't run into any "bugs", which is part of the test.
Now I do have a question. I did get some financial assistance or bonus to connect to certain cities. However, I did not get any when the SP line was completed. This I believe was due to "NOT" having completed it prior to 1896. Is my assumption correct?

[Moabdave]

Here is revision 4. This has only slight tweaks from revision 3. Revision 3 did not give credit for lines completed by buying access rather than waiting for it to be granted. Also, there is now a mechanism to earn access to WP territory for a player who is doing well and doesn't want to wait. I hope and think I'm done with this one.

Zip file deleted

[Moabdave]

This I believe was due to "NOT" having completed it prior to 1896. Is my assumption correct?

You should have gotten $2M player cash when the SP line was completed. The check is for Truckee, CA to be connected to Montello, NV. The scenario checks to see if the line is complete by the end of 1869, but that is only to verify eligibility for gold, there is no additional cash incentive for on-time completion.
David

[Blackhawk]

Well I'm currently playing version 3 still. Just got past 1900 and the SP/CP is making about 2.5-3.5 million a year. I first started just completing the entire SP line before I even started the game (thanks to all the bonuses for connecting cities) Then I started small making a few routes around Reno/Sparks and getting a constant cash flow. Then I slowed added a few more routes and after 15-20 years I upgraded engines from Americans/old consolidations to consolidations/dukes.

For awhile after that I didn't do anything and just put the game on fast and let cash build up, then occasionally I'd buy back stock, and then sell my personal shares in the stock to make personal money. I then started another railroad to build in the Eureka and Nevada Central lines, but seeing as how they would likely not be that profitable, I sold all my stock in the company and short saled some stock in the company as well when it was at a relatively high price figuring, I'd buy the stock back in a recession. I then switched back the the SP and again just wasted time. After awhile of accumulating company and player cash I started another company for the C&C line, which I built Hawthorne to Mina with the SP, as well as Wasbuska to Yerington. Then I used the company I made for the C&C to connect Dayton - Stagecoach - Silver Springs - Hazen (and connected it to the SP line) FYI The new companies I create now don't allow access to Eureka, Nevada Central, or Virginia & Truckee territories. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be this way or not, but it prevented me from being able to connect C&C from Dayton to VIrigina City, so I had to go back to the SP and finish the connection. Since this would be a profitable route, I kept stock in this company. I then created another company with just enough investment, to connect this part of the C&C line to Wasbuska, and then connect Yerington to Hawthorne. Then I completed the NCO line to Reno with this 3rd company, and sold all my stock in the company as I knew it would be doomed to failure.

A few other minor spelling mistakes I've noticed.
Intro message - Repition = repetition, seperated = separated, seperate = separate (2x this misspelling occurs)
Next message - "it's more well known name" = might sound better as "better known name" or "better known as"
Beowawe Connected - Obstacle is misspelled

There were a few other messages where separate was misspelled but I didn't write down which messages.

[Blackhawk]

Well I was able to get gold an hour or two ago.

A few more observations:

The Halleluja, Valmy, Gerack (sp?), Jungo events all I believe suffered from the same problem in that it did not display the company name in the newspaper, just a blank spot, probably because it wasn't force testing against the company to put the company name in there.

While not really a big issue, more just a minor annoyance for my attempt, you may want to consider changing/adding a few reserve cells in the WP territory by Beawawe to be sure the track can get through the area without having to bulldoze.

NN Connected - Connect is misspelled
-There is also the issue with the NN railroad in that the ledger says you can connect the WP's Wells (Humbolt? Wells) to Ruth or CP's Oasis to Ruth. However, you only seem to get a point for finishing the railroad connection if you complete it with the Oasis to Ruth line.

WP/SP peace - albatross misspelled. Possibly missing word *cities* before mentioning Carlin?
-Following the SP/WP peace and having the ability to share lines. The SP still was unable to go into the WP territories, and the WP was unable to go into the SP territories. However, for some reason the WP was given access to the Nevada territory.

FL Railroad - I received the completion message before I even knew about the line as I used a prior railroad to connect the SP and WP. You may want to consider adding a date to this before it will check and display? Otherwise I'll get the message saying it's been completed, but then a few years later you'll get the message saying to complete the FL line.

Also I'd add the final 2 rail lines to the ledger. I'm sure you're probably short of space on the ledger but if they are added in 1912/1913 at least you'll be able to view and see which cities needed to be connected for them to be completed, and by then the other lines should be completed so they take up less space (or possibly can be removed completely). I forgot which cities needed to be connected so I had to check in the editor.
-I'm not sure if it was a requirement or not, but I had to use the WP to connect to Deep Mine, as a new company lacked access there.
-I also had to start a new company to be able to connect from Oceania to Rochester. the SP could not go through that sliver of Nevada territory to get to Rochester, and I think the WP lacked access to the region where Rochester was, as well as the SP territory. (I'd have to check to be sure) So I used a new company to just build from Oceania to Rochester with the station at the very edge of Oceania as there was Nevada territory between.


Overall it was an entertaining map. I enjoyed having to switch between companies to accomplish different tasks. Maybe it was because the scenario was on normal difficulty, but overall it seemed a little easy. But then again the vast majority of the game I was in prosperity or booming, with only 1 brief period in recession, so maybe that brought in a lot of extra money for me as well. As long as you create a strong SP that can buy back it's own stock so you can sell stock at a high price and create personal wealth, the rest of the map isn't that hard. Use a little personal wealth to create another company for the routes that look like they'll be money pits. Build the line, sell off the stock, (usually connect it to the SP as then the SP will get money when the AI runs its trains on the track), and then go back to running the SP til the next line needs to be taken care of.

I did buy some dairy farms in the game so having industrial profits probably helped. Around 1910 I built a oil refinery up by the WP line. (by that point in the scenario it wasn't even needed) Other than the refinery, I didn't build any industries, I only bought was placed on the map.


Overall, nice map.

[Moabdave]

Thanks for the feedback.
Big thanks for pointing out the error in the newspaper events, I have been chasing that ghost for weeks, amazing I didn't see the obvious cause.I'll get to work on those spelling fixes.

About the Nevada Short Line (Oreana-Rochester) link, the block is intentional. When given access to this territory, about 1911-2 ish, an explanation is given. In real life, the NSL could not directly connect to the SP main, as it was built to narrow gauge and went bankrupt before being standard gauged. The 1 pixel separation between NSL and SP's right-of-ways was to force the indirect connection (i.e. depot transfer) due to the break in gauge. However in both rev3 and rev4 there is a way around it. Access to the default territory (Nevada) is given once the SP and WP make peace, and once that happens, it is possible to directly connect the Nevada Short Line with the Southern Pacific.
About the FL event error, this was fixed in rev 4. The problem was that there was no "unique" cities along the F&L's right of way, so the check to see if the line was complete could pass without ever working on that line. I fixed it by adding a minor city unique to the F&L's right of way.

The feedback about the map being easy is the most valuable to me. When I first posted this last year, the scenario was wildly vulnerable to the economic cycles. A depression or even a long recession could wipe out the company, even if it was doing everything right. (Even fully loaded trains would operate at a loss, as the sizable cities were so far apart) So I kept bumping up sizes of the intermediate cites and adding more bonus payments, so that I could at least break even during the recessions. I think I may have gone a little too far. As it currently stands, the size of the cities of Gerlack, Fernley and Beowowe are exaggerated compared to their neighboring cities. I may dial that back a bit.

[Moabdave]

Here is rev 5, hopefully the final revision.
This adds the suggestions by belbincolne.
1- several spelling fixes (I'm worthless without spellcheck)
2- Some event fixes on the newspapers
3- took out about 1/3rd of the bonus payments and made some cities smaller, just enough not to make the scenario too easy for experienced players. (I hope, I've struggled with that balance on this scenario).
4- fudged the dates of some lines. Before the dates were historically accurate, but that meant a ton of construction in 1880, then nothing until 1906.
5- fudged the territorial boundaries, the attempt to force a break in line at Oreana didn't work, so I got rid of it.

Thanks everybody for your feedback, this is taking a lot more iterations I had hoped, but I do believe the scenario is getting better thanks to your feedback.
David

Zip file deleted.

[Hawk]

1- several spelling fixes (I'm worthless without spellcheck)

I just thought I'd mention that if you have MS Word or OpenOffice, or any text editor that can do a spell check, you can type the text in it, do a spell check, then copy the text from which ever one you use and paste it into the text box in RT3.

[RayofSunshine]

Don't give up Dave,
We have not forgotten your NEV scenario. There is just a number of betas at this time, so some have to be put on the back burner. I hope to get to it sometime this month. Considering that this is just the 1st of April, that comes with a definite time frame. LOL