My definition of too difficult is: Can the author achieve gold on expert? If yes, then it's not too difficult for at least one player. One problem with most of the earlier RT scenarios is that too many of them are too easy, even on expert. But, many players, don't want very difficult scenarios, so expect a small audience if the scenario cannot be readily beaten on easier levels. Especially annoying, are scenarios that poop out on you halfway thru a long game. Some designers include ways to get cash just to keep struggling tycoons in the game. In mine, you lose your medals, but get to keep playing.
Now, to the scenario. I like the map and watching trains in the flat with scenic mountain backdrops. I like the long unit oil trains. I would like the map better if real locations had their real names, while only non real or special locations had their current names, but this has no effect on game play.
The premis is good, although I could use a few less newspaper tirades. The event programming seems to be done well and shows a good knowledge of the system. But, I wonder if the secret to sucess involves finding just the right combination of industries to destroy early to make it possible to become profitable in 7 years while still having enough to meet later goals. And for gold, given that the best way to destroy Elmo may depend on a random event occuring at a time when he is vulnerable and you have the cash to connect to a key city, I'm not sure I want to find out. In one playing, Elmo had just $7 in purchasing power, but not only was my RR out of cash, I had no clue how to deliver the death blow even if I had the cash (I hadn't figured it out yet). In the current game, he's got more cash than I do.
I was accepting all of this, until I noticed some nasty events that I have no desire to micro manage away from, namely, preventing the shipment of certain cargoes. RT's just don't make this easy and although I've heard (an RT3 legend?) that someone actually played a game totally using custom consists, I have no such desire and love the auto cargo feature - it is the single best feature of RT3 over RT2 and SMR.
I would like to keep playing, without cheating, even if I haven't a clue how to achieve bronze, let alone gold. But, after having restarted 4 times, I'm now in year 7 and my profitable industries combined have made only $500,000, while my losing industries put the industry total $1 million in the red, although it should be noted that I haven't built any hotels and such. This means that the game will probably self destruct in 11.9 months, so I'm moving on.
New Scenario: Beta Test Reviewers Kick-Me Elmo
Dear Orange:
Thank you very much for your honest and fair assessment of this scenario. i hope it is understood that 1) the scenario is not completely finished yet and 2) the idea behind the scenario was to have some unusual fun and to get players to think more about industry consists and not rely so much on routine freight revenue. The idea is that in actual life industry and production is really the WHY behind transport networks such as railroads.
Note that there is one major event i'm still working on programming where Elmo essentially 'puts his foot in his own mouth'-an event which if successfully completed will help achieve the gold medal.
Also, you are right-one of the main ideas was to have the player determine, from the initial seeding and availability of raw materials, which industries would likely thrive and which should be jettisoned. Since the player's industry mix starts out with a much higher, but unrealized, earning POTENTIAL he can afford to sell quite a few and still retain a potential advantage.
You are also quite correct that the 'illegal cargo' fine system was an attempt to wean the player gradually away from 'any' consists to mostly custom ones for industry other than the one cash cow-oil. i can understand it if you feel that is not enjoyable and i will see what i can do to retool it to make it a little more fun.
Anyhow, as far as the strategy is concerned, the key, for the player, is to lay as much track as fast as he possibly can to all his industries even selling a bunch in the process. the faster he gets on track profit-wise the better. Red ink is a killer. Also, the 'Elmo loans' are mostly a 'Red Herring' but if you watch your cash you'll notice that Elmo doesn't charge interest on the loan you pay the principle off on so you can always borrow one loan from Elmo interest-free if you pay it off the first year.
Unfortunately i injected a few typos + errors into the updated zip and will post a fix in a day or two.
Anyway, i will give serious consideration to the fine system to see what can be done there.
And thanx again for giving it a try and your assessment. Very much appreciated.
Trainboy
Thank you very much for your honest and fair assessment of this scenario. i hope it is understood that 1) the scenario is not completely finished yet and 2) the idea behind the scenario was to have some unusual fun and to get players to think more about industry consists and not rely so much on routine freight revenue. The idea is that in actual life industry and production is really the WHY behind transport networks such as railroads.
Note that there is one major event i'm still working on programming where Elmo essentially 'puts his foot in his own mouth'-an event which if successfully completed will help achieve the gold medal.
Also, you are right-one of the main ideas was to have the player determine, from the initial seeding and availability of raw materials, which industries would likely thrive and which should be jettisoned. Since the player's industry mix starts out with a much higher, but unrealized, earning POTENTIAL he can afford to sell quite a few and still retain a potential advantage.
You are also quite correct that the 'illegal cargo' fine system was an attempt to wean the player gradually away from 'any' consists to mostly custom ones for industry other than the one cash cow-oil. i can understand it if you feel that is not enjoyable and i will see what i can do to retool it to make it a little more fun.
Anyhow, as far as the strategy is concerned, the key, for the player, is to lay as much track as fast as he possibly can to all his industries even selling a bunch in the process. the faster he gets on track profit-wise the better. Red ink is a killer. Also, the 'Elmo loans' are mostly a 'Red Herring' but if you watch your cash you'll notice that Elmo doesn't charge interest on the loan you pay the principle off on so you can always borrow one loan from Elmo interest-free if you pay it off the first year.
Unfortunately i injected a few typos + errors into the updated zip and will post a fix in a day or two.
Anyway, i will give serious consideration to the fine system to see what can be done there.
And thanx again for giving it a try and your assessment. Very much appreciated.
Trainboy
Hello Again All:
i uploaded a 1.6v beta today-hopefully you'll be seeing it soon. Fixes typos and adds a few things.
i have given consideration to the aforementioned dislike of custom consists imposed by the 'system of fines' but i decided to keep the fine system in but put back something i originally intended to include but took out-a corresponding 'bribe' system where Mr. I. B. Goodtooya will 'look the other way' on illegal shipping-for a price. LOL. A redo.
Hope the finished version will be ready soon-i really hate painting. :)
Also look for a post in a bit of a strategy/walkthrough which will show that the scenario isn't really very hard-once you find the right tack.
Trainboy
i uploaded a 1.6v beta today-hopefully you'll be seeing it soon. Fixes typos and adds a few things.
i have given consideration to the aforementioned dislike of custom consists imposed by the 'system of fines' but i decided to keep the fine system in but put back something i originally intended to include but took out-a corresponding 'bribe' system where Mr. I. B. Goodtooya will 'look the other way' on illegal shipping-for a price. LOL. A redo.
Hope the finished version will be ready soon-i really hate painting. :)
Also look for a post in a bit of a strategy/walkthrough which will show that the scenario isn't really very hard-once you find the right tack.
Trainboy
Before actually starting a game, i tinkered with it a little. i bought out Elmo without cheating and noticed that my industries were earning over $2 million a year. So, I went into the editor and changed the silver condition to $10 million and the game gave me the silver choice in 4 years of doing nothing while on the fastest setting. I then lost becasue i was destroying everything in sight trying to bankrupt the company and Elmo and when the 7 year mark came my value was under $40 million. But, if i actually ran Elmo's co it seems that i could get a silver, and a gold if i could bankrupt him. i don't think you want players to be able to take Elmo's co over and not trigger an automatic loss. Tomorrow I'll try to play it for real.
This one is a very tough scenario, for me, anyway. In its current form, I would not recommend it to anyone who doesn't mind restarting it a lot, as , at least to me, its not immediately obvious what to do. Also, it requires you to closely monitor your cargoes, so as not to violate middle eastern taboos.
Everything seems to work as intended, although I haven't caused at least one significant event to happen yet. After numerous restarts, I finally hit on a strategy to get a silver medal. Gold, however, is still elusive. I had a brief opportunity to meet the prerequisie for gold, but failed to recognize what had to be done. I had an even earlier opportunity, but the probability genie didn't appear quickly enough. So, although I have no doubt that I can get the silver if I keep playing, I see zero chance of gold.
RT3 is not really set up to custom manage cargoes. You can't tell what cargoes are in the cars unless you are looking at the actual train. So, if you want to avoid certain events from occuring (they can bankrupt you), you have to either load trains manually, or at least review the cargoes of those trains going to or from problem areas - which, unfortuately, involves most of your trains. The thought of this I found to be only slightly more enjoyable than the thought of trying the new recipe I posted, so I opted to modify the game.
Yet, I like the idea of the cargoe restrictions. It fits with the location. A bribe would be most appropriate to get around the fines, but the cost should be low enough to keep companies solvent as I expect most players would rather pay it than do what is needed to prevent the fines. Alternatively, the fines should be set real low - say $10,000, rising only 1k for each additional (which is what I did), or should only occur on the expert level.
I liked version one's water better. In this version, it's the same color as the land and its not tan. At first, i wasn't into the humor, but as I have been playing, I'm beginning to see that it is sometimes pretty good. I especially like, sell, sell, sell and I forgot that Elmo took over the newspapers.
As to the silver requirement, I concluded that it would be very difficult to achieve going straight at the problem, so I took a different approach that is now netting me $7 million a year in industry profits without micromanagement, but also totally doomed gold.
Everything seems to work as intended, although I haven't caused at least one significant event to happen yet. After numerous restarts, I finally hit on a strategy to get a silver medal. Gold, however, is still elusive. I had a brief opportunity to meet the prerequisie for gold, but failed to recognize what had to be done. I had an even earlier opportunity, but the probability genie didn't appear quickly enough. So, although I have no doubt that I can get the silver if I keep playing, I see zero chance of gold.
RT3 is not really set up to custom manage cargoes. You can't tell what cargoes are in the cars unless you are looking at the actual train. So, if you want to avoid certain events from occuring (they can bankrupt you), you have to either load trains manually, or at least review the cargoes of those trains going to or from problem areas - which, unfortuately, involves most of your trains. The thought of this I found to be only slightly more enjoyable than the thought of trying the new recipe I posted, so I opted to modify the game.
Yet, I like the idea of the cargoe restrictions. It fits with the location. A bribe would be most appropriate to get around the fines, but the cost should be low enough to keep companies solvent as I expect most players would rather pay it than do what is needed to prevent the fines. Alternatively, the fines should be set real low - say $10,000, rising only 1k for each additional (which is what I did), or should only occur on the expert level.
I liked version one's water better. In this version, it's the same color as the land and its not tan. At first, i wasn't into the humor, but as I have been playing, I'm beginning to see that it is sometimes pretty good. I especially like, sell, sell, sell and I forgot that Elmo took over the newspapers.
As to the silver requirement, I concluded that it would be very difficult to achieve going straight at the problem, so I took a different approach that is now netting me $7 million a year in industry profits without micromanagement, but also totally doomed gold.
The scenario is not easy, i admit, but it is fairly easy to win bronze quickly. i have won it within three years. Silver is much harder and requires several different approach changes- first from 'any' cargos to custom consists, then a switch from intercepting cargo intended for Elmo to using lots of depots directly over the raw materials to make sure they arrive on schedule as otherwise the players industries will make very little.
Actually, without restricting the fines i payed 10 or 12 $10 million fines the other day in a test run and was still making so much money from oil and industry that i was still WAY in the black.
One of the remaining problems is that unfortunately, with the random economic events increasing the price of rare raw materials, sometimes Elmo's cattle ranches and dairy farms are making 3 million dollars a piece!! i will have to do something to restrict that as that is very difficult to overcome.
Finally, yes it would be possible to take over Elmo's company and win the silver as long as the CBV remains above $40 million but generally it is difficult to do unless you manage your money very well because Elmo and his company spend most of their time buying up all the available stock and don't allow the CBV to increase much over $30 million until all the stock is bought up-so if you can win this way it is considered a skillful accomplishment.
Still will be posting a walk through in just a bit.
Trainboy
Actually, without restricting the fines i payed 10 or 12 $10 million fines the other day in a test run and was still making so much money from oil and industry that i was still WAY in the black.
One of the remaining problems is that unfortunately, with the random economic events increasing the price of rare raw materials, sometimes Elmo's cattle ranches and dairy farms are making 3 million dollars a piece!! i will have to do something to restrict that as that is very difficult to overcome.
Finally, yes it would be possible to take over Elmo's company and win the silver as long as the CBV remains above $40 million but generally it is difficult to do unless you manage your money very well because Elmo and his company spend most of their time buying up all the available stock and don't allow the CBV to increase much over $30 million until all the stock is bought up-so if you can win this way it is considered a skillful accomplishment.
Still will be posting a walk through in just a bit.
Trainboy
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jwboyes
New to Forum
I just joined and think I need to post something within 3 days to stay joined. Enjoyed reading much of the conversation regarding senario creation. Lots of good stuff and lots of links to more good stuff.
Thanks for keeping this going.
Thanks for keeping this going.
KIck Me Elmo - HELP!
Ok, so I d/l this map and I love the concept. Just can't quite figure out how to get started.
Anybody get anywhere on this?
Thanks
Anybody get anywhere on this?
Thanks
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belbincolne
- Engineer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:28 am
- Location: Colne, England
Sad that no-ones replied. I've no idea either :( but to start I sold one industry which looked as though it would never be profitable and commenced railroading after buying into the port area which seemed to have the most activity. Railroading is pretty profitable but the losses from poor businesses eat it up. Eventually I sold four of them and built quite a large rail network and possibly I could have become profitable but whether I could have started to make industry profits is another matter 
The stock market is also impossible to understand with share prices fluctuating wildly for no apparent reason. One minute I was doing well and thinking of trying to take over another company to get entry to other states - the next I was deep in the red and was sold off :x
:x
I also upgraded industries which were supposed to be doing well - but the figures in the Almanac bear no relation to those in the game. There are dozens (hundreds?) of farms all over but none of these has a farm house so they're producing nothing.
Sadly therefor although it looks like a good idea I think the scenario has been put together very badly and unless it's revised it will never be playable.
The stock market is also impossible to understand with share prices fluctuating wildly for no apparent reason. One minute I was doing well and thinking of trying to take over another company to get entry to other states - the next I was deep in the red and was sold off :x
:x I also upgraded industries which were supposed to be doing well - but the figures in the Almanac bear no relation to those in the game. There are dozens (hundreds?) of farms all over but none of these has a farm house so they're producing nothing.
Sadly therefor although it looks like a good idea I think the scenario has been put together very badly and unless it's revised it will never be playable.
Selling industries creates losses and makes it tougher to meet the industry profit goal. I was able to finance myself (I think) by selling off stock in year 2, after prices skyrocketed. I think I then invested in Elmo's company and took it over. I remember doing a lot of stock manipulating in the first year to get a decent start. It took me a dozen or more starts to get traction. It's critical to build the track fast as industry losses will kill you. Sorry I can't remember more.
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belbincolne
- Engineer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:28 am
- Location: Colne, England
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belbincolne
- Engineer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:28 am
- Location: Colne, England
Well now I'm real puzzled. I do seem to have v1.6 and have studied the Link below. So far as I can see there is no way that it can ever be possible to take over Elmo even though you can manage to get rich in the first few months. Elmo's income is so great that his company is worth around $30m early on and he'll have to play very badly to see it reduce.
I still don't understand the farm position. They're there but not producing so it's impossible to know if its worth keeping breweries. Similiarly there seems to be few ranches so Meat Producers will always be useless?
The other thing is this multiple starting. Apart from not really knowing what to look for it takes an hour or so to digest the position and decide what industries to keep and it's hard work - and thus reduces the enjoyment very considerably!
I still don't understand the farm position. They're there but not producing so it's impossible to know if its worth keeping breweries. Similiarly there seems to be few ranches so Meat Producers will always be useless?
The other thing is this multiple starting. Apart from not really knowing what to look for it takes an hour or so to digest the position and decide what industries to keep and it's hard work - and thus reduces the enjoyment very considerably!
My last Elmo was 1.6 and I'm pretty sure I bought him out. It was the only time I didn't fail the industry profits goal in year 10 or whatever. Once I got things built, I edited the game to reduce the shipping penalties, since i found the task of micromanageing each cargo to be extremely tedious. Perhaps I'll try to load up the scenario to see if I can figure out what I did. (Hopefully, it will work as I just finished installing the Beta patch.)
I think what I did was to buy my own stock in Jan, sell it in Feb and thenbought a lot of Elmo's stock. I then issued new shares of my co, since they were now worth a lot and that gave me plenty of money to build track. I also spent the million for track, as that one is really worth it. Eventually, I was able to buy out Elmo's co, because I built lots of track with new stock issues and became quite profitable. Further, I kept buying up Elmo's stock and somehow I got enough cash to take him over. I used Elmo's track, as it doesn't help him that much and it helped me a lot, especially in the mts where there is no other decent route. Even in the desert it was worth it. But, I could never bankrupt him. I know of one way to do it, but things have to break just right, and you have to know about it in advance (either look at the editor or stumble on it as I did. Don't read on - spoiler alert.
Not really, as I can't remember the details - but it happens when you connect to the north shore port city of Saudia Arabia. If Elmo is short of cash, which happens in recessions, I think - can''t remember - you can knock him off with the genie or whatever you get for connecting. I could have done it the first time it happened, but I didn't realize that he was vulnerable and I was no where near being able to get a medal of any kind. In my final game, I tried, but the recession didn't last long enough (I forget why you can't just do it immediately) and Elmo survived.
Not really, as I can't remember the details - but it happens when you connect to the north shore port city of Saudia Arabia. If Elmo is short of cash, which happens in recessions, I think - can''t remember - you can knock him off with the genie or whatever you get for connecting. I could have done it the first time it happened, but I didn't realize that he was vulnerable and I was no where near being able to get a medal of any kind. In my final game, I tried, but the recession didn't last long enough (I forget why you can't just do it immediately) and Elmo survived.
OK, I finally got a good starting position, managed to buy Elmo out and got my industries up where they need to be.
However, since Elmo was bankrupt prior to my winning the scenario, I'm not getting awarded the gold.
Do I need to get the industries up prior to him, then drive him bankrupt?
Anyway, this was a real mind bender!
However, since Elmo was bankrupt prior to my winning the scenario, I'm not getting awarded the gold.
Do I need to get the industries up prior to him, then drive him bankrupt?
Anyway, this was a real mind bender!
Re: New Scenario: Beta Test Reviewers Kick-Me Elmo
I started on January. On February I had 30M of Personal Cash and 25M of company money. Also lured out Elmo to buy 1k of his own stock going deeper into the margain. During March I took over his company, merged it with 2 out of 4 other companies, then sold all of his industries, making company worth negative. Next step was selling short Elmo's stock. In April my account showed 45M of pure cash, Elmo along with 1 other AI were bancrupt. In May I got bored and quit the scenario 
, because I would have to (almost) simply just do nothing for 50 years to get the gold.
, because I would have to (almost) simply just do nothing for 50 years to get the gold.