{NEW BETA} fix/update South Central British Columbia 1898

[Grandma Ruth]

It's amazing that you're still finding a range of scripting bugs in this beast of a thing.

I think because I haven't seen it before it's fresh eyes. You can get so involved in a thing you can't see the wood for the trees ...
By the way, here's another thing I meant to mention and will now before I lose it again - I was really disappointed the first time I played this scenario because I thought I was winning and nothing happened! That was because the status page said the deadline for connecting Midway was 1909 whereas it's actually 1904. So I connected in 1905 or something and wondered why I wasn't making any progress. It's obviously just a typo but it misled me
It does give the right date of 1904 in the briefing but I didn't have the wit to think of that.

[RulerofRails]

These things illustrate why it's still a beta. I caught a lot of things, but there's still more to be found. Fresh eyes and different playstyles are needed to really put such a complex map through it's paces. I'm very happy for these reports.

This date 1904/1909 etc.. Can be a bit confusing I see. To try to give the player more info, I added the note about 1909 to the status. In 1909 there is a game loss event. If you didn't connect Midway by then, it's lights out. Probably I should add "charter expires Dec. 1904" to avoid confusion.

Year-end 1904 is the end of the "charter." This is the case of some original coding not catching an eventuality (one of the ones I missed finding). Not sure what should happen if you connect after the charter expires but before 1909. How should that affect gameplay going forward? I will add an event to cover this, when I work out what/if any impact it will have connecting in 1904 versus in the period 1905-1909.

[Grandma Ruth]

When I connected after 1904, nothing happened - no response when I did connect, no more track pieces. I thought it was the most boring game in the world till I checked the dates again. I didn't keep going long enough to lose in 1909. Told you I'm impatient!
Does anything happen if you don't make the other connections in time? Obviously there's a limit to how much you want to change, but how about this?
In the original briefing, you could make it more clear that there are two ways to win gold - one is connect + 25 tycoon points, the other is 30 tycoon points alone. I think you might want to do that anyway, it's not quite clear to me on first reading what it means.
So if you connect half-way or do two connections but miss the third, or somehow, work out a tycoon point reward. So if you connect Midway between 1904-1909, you've lost your chance for making the connection element but you do get 1/2 a tycoon point or something towards your 30, which is now your only chance of winning. Could be a choice - do you want to try again (ie lose this game now) or plough on at a disadvantage? Then what would you do about the lose event in 1909, though?
This whole game narrative is so complicated it's difficult to foresee everything. It's really like two different games, one for silver/bronze, and one for gold. If you're playing at the non-expert level, you've already made a decision to go for silver or bronze and not to bother about the tycoon points, so you might just as well lose whenever a deadline comes up.
Sorry this is a bit rambling, I'm just thinking out loud really.

[Grandma Ruth]

I've hit the skids in 1903 - no more track is available. GV4 is saying 200 but track available is 0
I'm attaching screenshots of my status page which also includes the state of the variables - any ideas?
ETA: the only thing I can see that sets TV3 to 10 is connecting to Midway, which I haven't done. mmmmm.....
Edited again: There is one other event that changes TV3 to 10, which is CA-Track Count 02-01, choice 1. Once you've made that choice, there's nothing to change it. When the event fires again the next month, choices 2 and 3 don't reset TV3 to 75, so you can't get any more track even though it looks as though you have - and if your second choice takes GV4 over 125, it won't fire again after that.
And of course this might explain why you can't get any further once you've connected to Midway after 1904 (see previous post), TV3 is set to 10 so you've had it! No more track!
Is that making sense?

[RulerofRails]

I think I will simplify it so that the loss event will trigger in 1904.

The "30 points" no conditions always seemed to me harder than following the "story" of the connections. This is why I didn't really promote it in the texts and briefings. If you have a format idea on how to put it concisely in the ledger without using an extra line, let me know. It is mentioned in the briefing.

In regards to the track, you seem to have run out during the building project. As in CV4>10, means that a construction project is underway.

TV3=0 shouldn't happen. There is a little difficulty with the events in using the last bits of track (remember there is an emergency stockpile of 20).

It probably needs two new events for this. I will fix this issue. In your case, I hope you have a savegame, try to set TV3 = 75.

Although, I don't quite understand how CA-Track Count 02-01 fired when GV4 = 200. It should only fire when GV4 < 125. Maybe that was some time ago? How are you doing economically in the scenario? Probably why I didn't test this so much was that I assumed that players will jump at the chance for more track, seeing that supply is so limited.

[Grandma Ruth]

I should have explained the screenshots. I took two months' screenshots, October and November. The sequence of events is - You have 115 pieces, CA-Track Count 02-01 fires in August, you say no, then in September yes, so the 200 pieces represent 115 +75 +10 (from another event) but still track available is 0.
I set TV3 =75 on choices 2 and 3 and it worked fine, connected to Midway on my next try in September.
Economically:

That's a bit scary! You're only supposed to be allowed $10,000K !!! I inherited some debt from a company I took over, so used that and then I still had to sell some things to make the connection. Now I'm working on reducing the debt. Interestingly though I've already reached $10,000,000 in industry profits without really trying so not much of a challenge there.
The win narrative - it's weird, it's quirky, I wouldn't like to change it. I don't think it needs to be changed in the status page so much as the briefing and explanation - so it's like three games in one - Bronze/Silver by one route, Gold by two different routes and only when playing Expert - that idea's brilliant. This is the first time I ever played on Expert, I usually keep to Hard difficulty; figuring that if I can win on Hard, somebody better than me can win on Expert. I'll give some thought to it and suggest some wording that makes it clearer.
I think you're doing a grand "job" with this, I'm glad my comments are helpful.

[Grandma Ruth]

CA-Track Count 03-01 - same thing as with CA-Track Count 02-01. The choice to pay for more results in taking the money and adding to the stockpile but doesn't release the pieces as available. I think it's TV3=10 again but I'm not sure what to set it to?
BTW, on the status page (IM - only track for repairs) why "few" pieces rather than [GV4] ??? It's not that important but I'm using bits of track to connect odd mines, etc. and it would be nice to know how much I have.

[Grandma Ruth]

A couple more:
FR-Charter-01-1-0 Choice 2 doesn't give the cash!
PR-EL-01-01-4-02 and PR-EL-01-01-4-03 The messages look like placeholders or "notes to self" rather than making sense to the player.

[RulerofRails]

The track system in this scenario is quite complicated. There are construction projects. When CV4=10-24 (with the exception of =22) a construction project is ongoing.

When a track construction project is in progress TV3 should = 75. That was the mistake in "CA-Track Count 02-01". None of the choices there should change TV3 or CV4. The scenario is already far too complicated to add in exceptions for a delay in a project or something of that sort.


You might notice with "CA-Track Count 03-01" that CV4 < 10 is checked. That means that no construction project is on-going. And therefore you only have the workforce to lay 10 pieces of track per month. This event shouldn't change TV3 either, so from I what I can see this one is working correctly.

Question: do you think it's a problem that these events might fire every month if the player selects "No" each? Might think about a delay of 3 months. As always there is a risk to mess up some of the existing variables when doing this. How important do you think this is?


There used to be a note in the briefing to say that "20 pieces of track are reserved for emergency" and also always a display of GV4 (stockpile). But I dropped it due to space constraints. Trust me, if certain paths are taken the ledger page will be completely full, but shouldn't overflow*. This is a 1.05 map so I can't use a 2nd ledger page. I thought it was more important that the player should know how many pieces his workforce could lay per month. I will add (10 pieces) per month in some form to this note.

*Hint: If you try to connect to Midway as soon as possible you may get some haulage offers etc..


FR-Charter-01-1-0 Choice 2 --- can you double-check this? Seems fine on my end. "Company Cash +1,275,000"

PR-EL-01-01-4-02 and PR-EL-01-01-4-03 The messages look like placeholders or "notes to self" rather than making sense to the player.

Good tip. I thought this was some political jargon that was way over my head. But I agree. Those will lose the text. How these work: There is a 66% chance (PR-EL-01-01-4-01 didn't fire) that supporting both parties can be successful (no blowback), and if so these align the variables so the player may gain some advantage/s from supporting the "right" party.

[Grandma Ruth]

FR-Charter-01-1-0 Choice 2 - screenshot attached, no cash. Am I using the most up-to-date revision though? Mine is SCBC1898 0-498. Is there a later version with some of these things already corrected?
I might have to think more about the track availability problem, I don't think I'm understanding the logic yet.
The monthly offer of track is annoying if you don't want it, but I would live with that, I think. I use the extra track in three ways - to double-track where necessary, to join "foreign" railroads to each other or to mine (to give other companies' trains access) and to do odd bits like connecting to out-of-the-way mines, etc. So on balance I'd rather have the monthly offer than not.

[Grandma Ruth]

Still not getting it! This is my status page which tells me that I've got 25 pieces of track (GV4=25) but track pieces buildable is 0. I wasn't sure which territory it would be checking against so there are two. TV3 for one is 0 and for the other is 10.
And you can see that Available Track is 0 in the game interface.
I'm beginning to understand that the two events CA-Track Count 03-01 and CA-Track Count 02-01 are different - one is when there's a project ongoing and one where there isn't. So at this point in the game I have no current project.
Am I just losing the plot? Give me back my 25 pieces of track !!
ETA:
Is it because the game is "saving" 20 pieces, on the one hand, and will only give out 10 at a time on the other - so it's not able to give 5 pieces? Maybe increasing the number of pieces you can buy from 20 to 30 might help?

[Grandma Ruth]

Meanwhile, how about this to replace the current briefing from after "the wealth of the area will be yours" and before "This all has to be accomplished before 1920" ?????? I've tried it out in my test game and attach screenshots of how it looks.


"You have two ways to win Gold and become the undisputed regional Tycoon – but be warned, you can only play for Gold on the “Expert” level. These are your targets:

BRONZE
Connect to the CPR docks at Penticton before 1910.
SILVER
Also, connect to the CPR main Line at Petain, near Hope, before 1916.
GOLD (Plan A)
Meet the Bronze and Silver conditions and also, your company will have Lifetime Industry Profits of $10 mill. or more, neither you or your company have any debt. In addition, you must have accumulated 25 or more Tycoon points.
Or
GOLD (Plan B)
Simply get yourself a Tycoon rating of 30."

[RulerofRails]

Sorry for the delay, I'm busy lately.

With the variable states you posted, the coding seems to be working. You shouldn't have track available to lay: it's important to note that you shouldn't be able to use GV4 below 20.

GV4 >= 20 is a condition for many events in the game (part of the main story line). Essentially JSS was being "clever" here and re-using a variable. If GV4 = 1 you are "just looking around". Then this was explained in-game as an emergency stockpile. Bottomline: GV4 isn't really "track in the stockpile". Track in stockpile = GV4 - 20. I admire the effort to re-use a variable. Wouldn't really recommend this myself. It can be regarded as giving "character" to the map, and it would certainly be a mammoth undertaking to change that.

CA-Rail Def.-01-01 this event will only give you track IF GV4 >= 30. This is a preventative obviously for GV4 ever being below 20.

The real question is how you managed to get GV4 to 25 AFTER you bought some track with "CA-Track Count 03-01." Maybe GV4 = 25 when this event fires, but after 20 pieces are added to the stockpile it should = 45 (you would see 35, because 10 pieces were made available for you at the start of the month with "CA-Rail Def.-01-01").

Not sure what has happened here. If you have some informations on other recent events, that might help. Did you make any manual adjustements to GV4?

Thanks for the suggested revision to the briefing. This helps a lot on what is understandable. I'm thinking the lose for not connecting Midway should also be in there.

[Grandma Ruth]

Sorry, I confused myself and got two events mixed up together.

First problem - having 25 pieces of track but none available to use: maybe this is because it releases 10 pieces at a time so can't release 5, which is all that should be available. The reason I had 25 pieces was only because that was what was left after connecting. Nothing to do with CA-Track Count 03-01 or anything else.
ETA: I just re-read your comment explaining this - I really am trying to keep up here!!!!!!

Second problem - CA-Track Count 03-01 - I can't reproduce this so I don't think it's worth bothering about. I suspect it's something to do with letting the game run on whilst you're in track-building mode and is a quirk of RT3 itself. I once ended up with 100-odd pieces of track buildable just because I hadn't paused the game. Normally of course, you would pause the game whilst you're laying track, wouldn't you? I would anyway.

I think this is another good reason for leaving the "few pieces of track" message rather than using GV4 - it would just confuse the player, as indeed it did.

Thanks for the suggested revision to the briefing. This helps a lot on what is understandable. I'm thinking the lose for not connecting Midway should also be in there.

I kinda like an unexpected "lose " event - keeps the player on their toes! I had one in my EU map very early in the game (to ensure a later event would fire) and found it quite fun!

[Grandma Ruth]

I kinda like an unexpected "lose " event - keeps the player on their toes! I had one in my EU map very early in the game (to ensure a later event would fire) and found it quite fun!

Well I eat my words! Something happened unexpectedly in January 1916 I should have learned from the Midway connection that the status page doesn't always tell the whole truth! Is this deliberate? Status page says the deadline for Petain is 1919

[RulerofRails]

That was something I didn't adjust. I displayed the deadline in the ledger, so it was a mistake on my part to enter the incorrect one (which corresponds with the connection award events rather than the loss/medal ones), sorry bout that. I will adjust the display. Also I saw another bug, achieving Bronze after 1910 but before 1916 isn't working right now. (MC-Bronze-2 only checks before 1910).

That also brings up that Bronze and Silver conditions are eventually needed to avoid these loss checks. That means that choice #3 on CR-Midway-01-0, is also broken. I'm sure the intention here was that you can just go after the tycoon points without building the intended railway. Will fix this also.

[Grandma Ruth]

“I'm interested in any extra detail you might have about what you were imagining the role of the "I have other plans" mode was meant to be. How would such a game progress?”
The short answer would be “darned if I remember”. One guess would be that through the Stock Market to be able to take over other RR Companies and build a RR starting from their existing lines. But this is only a guess since I recall to really like the stock market play. That would have been an alternative to develop the region but not as the KVR.

It seems JSS himself didn't quite think through the "Plan B" concept! Do we want to give the player the option, if he fails to make the connection(s), to switch to the 30 Tycoon points instead? Would there be time to get 30 points before 1920? Or do we want to force a decision at the start, which way are you going to go?
Anyway, here's another conundrum:

It's saying two contradictory things - I've got as far as seeing that IM-Connection-1-1 and IM-Progress-01 are both correct but IM - only track... etc is not true at this point. Something to do with TV4????

[RulerofRails]

I like your idea that if you fail Bronze or Silver you still get a chance at reaching 30 tycoon points. I think it's a bit unlikely that the player can achieve that, but at least the player can still experience the full span of this map. Or am I bad for giving false hope?

I hope the bug you found here is a remanifestation of the bug in choice #1 of: CA-Track Count 02-01. It should have no effect. If it's still changing TV3 that will cause this effect. Any other event that sets TV3 without changing CV4 could result in the same bug (I hope there are no other cases).

TV4 is used to record if the price of track is doubled ("No catepillar" event sequence). When TV4 = 1, doubled price is in effect. This is a discouragement for the player to build a big project piece by piece (only applies after you connect to Midway). One of the more common complaints against the map in the past is that you are "required to lay track in a catepillar style" (I'm paraphrasing different comments here). The ledger message about a "few pieces" is relying on this TV4 = 1.

In your case "No catepillar" has fired. This has to be tied with a time that TV3 was set to 10 incorrectly (I hope it's choice #1 of: CA-Track Count 02-01, otherwise we have another case on our hands). Do you have any info on how TV3 became set to 10 when CV4 wasn't also adjusted (aka track construction state was changed)? I scanned the events but didn't see anything in the obvious places. Really the track purchase events should be the only culprits. The ones to end construction projects (correct silmutaneous change of TV3 and CV4 also look fine).

[Grandma Ruth]

I like your idea that if you fail Bronze or Silver you still get a chance at reaching 30 tycoon points. I think it's a bit unlikely that the player can achieve that, but at least the player can still experience the full span of this map. Or am I bad for giving false hope?

You're not bad, you're and quite right too! Nothing like a challenge!

The problem with the status page was indeed choice #1 of: CA-Track Count 02-01, so that's not too bad.

[Grandma Ruth]

Back to the "lose" in 1909:

This date 1904/1909 etc.. Can be a bit confusing I see. To try to give the player more info, I added the note about 1909 to the status. In 1909 there is a game loss event. If you didn't connect Midway by then, it's lights out. Probably I should add "charter expires Dec. 1904" to avoid confusion.

Year-end 1904 is the end of the "charter." This is the case of some original coding not catching an eventuality (one of the ones I missed finding). Not sure what should happen if you connect after the charter expires but before 1909. How should that affect gameplay going forward? I will add an event to cover this, when I work out what/if any impact it will have connecting in 1904 versus in the period 1905-1909.

Another possibility is that the date is right but the city is wrong. It would make more sense for it to be Penticton. As it is, the game has allowed me to play on till 1915 without connecting Penticton, let alone Petain! So I'm going to start again and see how I get on this time. (You will probably hear no more from me for a while till I get back to 1915 again.)

By the way, my industry profits are over $30 million now - it will have to be a lot bigger target. I'm not sure this is a useful "win" condition in any case as you're bound to make big industry profits as you take over the industrial companies. (Although I have to admit I did find it useful to have industries to sell off at one point!) Let's see what I make without trying by the end of the game, then we can adjust it if you want to keep it in.