Coal Miner's Daughter

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
RayofSunshine
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Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

:-? As long as you don't want to go outside to work Gwizz,

I have a short question, although I thought that I had seen a thread on the Coal Miner's Daughter some where. Anyway, the game gives me 16 section of track, which only gets me to the river. There is some comment of a hint, that the businesses are going to give me 150 sections.

So the question. When and where?

Ray of Sunshine **!!!**
Gwizz
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Gee, I don't remember the track having a problem.
But then you are running 106. I'll check it.

The funeral trains were the hard part.
RayofSunshine
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

:?: I keep trying Gwizz,

But after a few tries, I am still getting nowhere, due to the lack of more that 16 sections of track. Even tried to re-download the scenario, as well as just letting the time "go-by", to see if it would interact and give me the 150 sections "promised by the businesses". Oh, and yes, I do have the 106 Patch installed shown in the lower left hand corner of the menu screen.

You do have a "Gwizz Ports", and wonder if it is to be installed for this scenario?

Ray of Sunshine
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

The start is a bit different. Pay attention to the dialogs. Take control of the stock in your RR at the start of the 1st month when the price is low and buy two locomotives. By building a station, rail is supplied. Follow the guidelines and hints given in the dialogs. Also remember the building discounts for the 1st 3 months. Also you should be able to take control of an AI in June and use it to serve your RR.

The Gwizz port does not have to be installed. It is a passenger & mail Port. It acts like a city station with demands and supplies. Passengers and mail were not allowed by the game at the normal ports that came with the game.
RayofSunshine
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Some real good suggestions in the dialog Gwizz,

But then when I tried to control the AI, my broker blew me away. Will have to try again.

I sort of get 'chewed out' by the future father-in-law, about not being able to stop the track from getting into the hands of an AI. Don't see a way to possibly stop it. I never seem to have enough revenue to keep "with the game".

Ray of Sunshine
Gwizz
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Don't forget you can sell something to raise money.
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

I came close to a margin call in Nov. of the first year. But was able to sell all my stock in a 2nd AI, and put my nose above water. Then in December sold half of my stock and I bought control of my 1st AI and put its' stock value over $100. At the new year the AI's stock did not split but lost value. Of course my own stock made a major split with a major increase in value. I still owned 50% of my RR.. Next I ordered 200 cells of used rail. The best deal of all the offers. I still have about 240 of my own cells unused. I took control of the AI and built 3 short lines each with one station and one loco. These lines each served one of my stations. I built a 4th AI station and extened one of short line toward it but ran out of AI track needed to make the connection. Using the AI dollars I bought back its' extra stock. I sold one of my shares to raise money. Then using AI dollars bought it back. I then bought controling stock in my company so I could return to it. Still having AI money left, I bought 2 locos for the extra line but had to route them to another station since the 4th line was not yet connected.

My daughter stopped by for a long visit, stopping last nights game play. But today I will remove one station stop from these two locos to stop them from running. Then I will take control of my own RR and build the connecting track for the AIs' connection. Then I will take control of the AI and reroute the last two AI trains.

Two of the other AIs built RRs so I will try to reign them in by buying their stock by taking out bonds, before they get to big.
RayofSunshine
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

WOW,

I guess you are a TYCOON.

Ray of Sunshine {,0,}
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Finally got the 40-point gold (on Hard) after days of trying - and that's with the 1.06 patch! I ignored the AI and the stock market generally, contrary to Gwizz's own "robber baron" tactics and just concentrated on hauling and building. Made it with only weeks to spare. Very good map, difficult terrain and challenging win conditions. !!clap!!
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

!**yaaa !**yaaa !**yaaa !**yaaa !*th_up*!
Jeremy Mac Donald
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

This scenario seems to be crashing the game for me looking for teh Gwizz Port. I found the port in one of the support sections on the site but have no clue which directory to install it to. Could some one tell me which directory one adds things like enhanced buildings?
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

I believe I had mine in ..Data/Building Types. Unfortunately I've re-installed RT since then so have lost a lot of stuff including this file. It does say on the ReadMe that you don't need it to play the scenario, though.
JFMarvelous
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Put the bty and bca files in data_building types amd the gmp file in maps folder
Jeremy Mac Donald
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Thanks for the info. I read the read me and it does not that the port is not required but the program is crashing to the desktop and giving me an error message that talks about the Gwizz Port file so there it is.
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Just a Silver first attempt, 24 points. Only missed three goals, 84/100 coal from Daughter's Mine (I guess I need to be faster getting goods there?), 79/100 coal from Hell's Hole Mine (ditto), 45/50 lumber to Mountain Iron Mine (really no demand there, and no iron, either, to begin with... :-x ) I think I blew the Troop hauling goal by hauling too many? I really didn't understand what I was supposed to do, I guess... disable all trains until the 1 troop car goes from Old Port to each tribe and then to Hidden Temple? Sooo many events to read through to understand how this scenario even works.

Bought two of the 5 stocks and reloaded the Autosave the next year to have first dibs on the split share and make sure I acquired majority before anybody else could. Bought into AI's as much as I could for no real reason and bought out a few whose lines I wanted, and paralleled one guy to death that had a massive useless tunnel I didn't want. Obviously at the start with industry 50% off buy all profitable farms and mines. I impatiently pulled funds from buying/building industry and started a small line in the 3rd year. I really could have been a lot tighter going for max profit margins, but there's plenty of easy cash on this map. The main thing I'd focus on the next try is getting goods to all the mines ASAP.

Reading through the events, yeah basically you have to disable all auto consists going through the Tribal Villages. You must haul at least 6 troops to Tribal Village territory, and must haul exactly 6 troops out of Tribal Villages, no more for the rest of the game. And exactly 6 troops to the Hidden Temple. Meh, by this point there's so much cash that, while a bit tedious, you could just retire all your trains and set the troop carriers up to meet the goals and finish that way. Still annoying micromanagement. I failed both those conditions and lost 12 points, 3 more for the 3 goals I missed... what else, that's just 39 points... ah, I see there's a random event that never fired for me that awards another point for delivering clothing to the Camel herders.

Super challenging terrain, very tedious to run all the expensive track with big 6% grades, had to employ some crazy tactics like switchbacks in places. And then to only be offered the American... And eventually you can pay for a few brief opportunities to buy some Shays. Yeah, I just enabled all engines, used Americans, some Stirlings on the dead flats (lots of Express revenue here, hotels all around,) then Connies in the grades, then Dukes over Americans. I can't imagine tackling this map with the options given. As it was some hauls took years to complete! And I took 600 segments every year of course, and eventually double-tracked my coastal mainline and out of Hell's Hole through Log Skid and up from Daughter's Mine to Rock Mountain.

So, do I try again knowing now how to win, using only Americans and Shays, with no funny-business hauling-at-a-loss to reach goals? Might have to remove the random chance condition for the Camel Herders event to ensure 40 points is possible. Even then it'll still be hard, but should be possible to Gold on Expert.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

I played this so long ago that I didn't remember anything useful about it. So long ago that I wouldn't have been too worried to fail at the 40 points medal. :lol: With predominant haulage goals and limited track it's more of an empire builder map. As such it's better enjoyed when not pushing too hard. :-)

I can tell that a lot of hard work was put into this map. Quality design of terrain, visuals, and economic setup. yum!!!!

In terms of starting the scenario, since there's limited track and reduced industry costs, that's the obvious choice. I don't think it's wise to get the largest track package first up, as you will sacrifice CBV and therefore have less bonds available for purchasing the cheap industries. It's not hard to max out bonds before they return to regular price.

My early rail strategy (with the limited mileage) is to try to service the Ports (try to satisfy their demands) well enough so that they upgrade early in the game. This will help to get the haulage targets underway down the track.

Sure the grades seem intense. Since bridges have 3-4% grade ramps, one can only really get hill-climbing strategic play by requiring 6% grades with low pulling power engines like the American. This rewards well laid track. The mountains seem exaggerated visually, but this is the type of map where Hill-climbers are worth their salt.

The Coal hauls aren't a problem to do "cleanly". To clean out demand at a swamped location, it's possible to dump it in the sea at a port. The Lumber and Goods hauls can be done creatively as those things are wanted at houses all over the map. However, the Iron haul is a bit tedious IMO. The warehouses at the mines have a very small demand. In addition, these are the ONLY demands for Iron on the map. So, to clean out demand at one location REQUIRES that you re-haul for an extra count. The only way to avoid that would be to load up a train and simply delete it, taking the Iron out of play. But it's not a clean play, and because it's up to the player to police himself to make "legitimate" hauls, this sort of forced re-haulage is a bit irksome to me.

As you found, there is a problem with the Camel Shipment event. Firstly, some events test against the territory "Camel Pens" while applying effects to the territory "06 Tribal Village". There is another problem, the success event needs to check for Territory Variable 2 = 1 (currently testing for Territory Variable 2 = 2). This is the "flag" that records that this event chain is active.

The Troop haulage is a bit tricky (if you don't follow the suggested story-line then it's on you). I agree totally that there should at least be an event afterwards that drops Troop production after completion and also not penalize the few that may be hauled after completion. Also needs a warning to be careful not to haul extra Troops while the funeral procession is en route.

I didn't connect to the Gwizz Port (Deep Water Port). I was trying to be clever to control my price gradients better. !facepalm! Now the Gwizz port is showing 8 loads of Troops willing to travel anywhere on the map, whereas those at the Old Port City will only travel to nearby locations. So my solution (after rewinding a year) is to run each troop train from Old Port City down to the Deep Water Port (this way I get the count that they have "left on their journey") and then run them out to the individual villages. This is where my game stands right now, so not 100% sure if I will easily get a shipment from each village to the Hidden Temple.

The Salaga Tribe task has a random chance and involves a victory point. The chance is high enough (10% per year for 12 years) that it should show up in the game, but I didn't see it in my game yet.
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Ah, so that victory point is tied to a probability check, as well. Not nice.

And if you read the events all the tribes are the same territory so you don't have to haul from each village, just 6 troops out of the territory (any village) and 6 troops into Hidden Temple.

I definitely did my run "clean" with just autoconsist out of the mines, though I did build to iron mines and had trains fill up a bit and only carry iron, and never much back, and I definitely connected to the lumber centers (Rock Mountain was fun to get to, but expensive with a lot of 6% pretty much straight up alongside the ridge behind Daughter Mine) as quick as possible and haul it straight to the mines. I didn't think about the ports being serviced to upgrade, or to use them to dump into the ocean, I need to think about ports more... Yeah, now that I know about the importance of the goods haulage early I'd try to get pulp down to the ports ASAP.

What consists did you run on your climbing Americans? Were you able to keep to all 4% (aside from a few bumps?) Are you using the Shay? I guess if limited to Americans as the only other option, yeah I'd want Shays, or else send Americans up the hill with only 2-3 cars. But if you're using Shays, which option did you chose? Didn't really have the cash at the time for the $300k option I don't think... And I obstinately used a caboose, even though there were no breakdowns, so I'd probably cut that out on a serious replay.

I'm not sure I rehauled to get the iron counts, as you'd have to be sending trains from one mine to another, and I'm not sure the gradient would flow enough to create sufficient secondary demand in towns neighboring the iron-hungry mines to allow iron to leave one mine on an autoconsist to an intermediate town on its way to another mine. If that happened, then I re-hauled. Not intentionally, and so, it just took a while to meet the iron goals. But reading the events, hauling iron and lumber is just a game point, it doesn't do anything else, while hauling goods increases production, especially at Daughter Mine where you are rewarded with Coal Production +20% for the rest of the game.

I'd say yeah, especially now taking a look on how a 1.05 American actually does on the gradients, I'd say this is winnable on Expert. Arggh. Part of me wants to win this and move on, but I know I'd spend 8-10 hours on it crafting careful routes up and down mountains. The Connies I was using let me be a bit sloppy, still probably took 6+ hours on this playthrough.

Edit: oh, and it's cheap to bulldoze! Some way through as I'd not yet met my goods hauling goals I decided to bulldoze all retail from the map. On many maps I bulldoze construction firms and electric plants to manage gradients and supply, never before retail.

And yes I'm starting another playthrough, lol.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Yeah, I read that about the Troops in the editor. But it's not the task as described. IIRC, Gwizz liked RTII better than RT3. In RTII it's very easy to setup a haulage goal as the events are linked to both an origin and a destination. RT3 can only test haulage against one thing, either origin or destination with no way to link them. This event chain seems an obvious workaround to this problem, but I wouldn't call it fool-proof.

I didn't stick to a 4% grade limit. I bombed virtually straight up the hill to the Black Diamond mine. Fair bit of 6% with a couple 7's thrown is as well. I did try to limit grades overall, but with the proviso not to use too many extra track miles (at least until late in the game). The thing with the Shay is that while it's faster uphill, it gets murdered on the trip back down and will lose time on any 2% or less grades (with 8 freight cars). For the dedicated haulage uphill I selected 4 cars which still allows a max train speed of 10mph on a 6% grade.

On my play I was a bit eager to get the Iron hauls. Thinking about it a bit more, I think it will work fine if I'm a bit more relaxed. Will see some pretty red prices, but the Coal hauls take longer anyway. Good luck on your play, I'm sure you'll get it this time.
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

Already off to a huge start, majority ownership in all AIs and already bought one for the run up to lower Ashanti Village in 1864. Many of the farms/mines were added in 1860 and as such can be had for ridiculous prices given the 50% rebate off of base prices. Also bought many of the profitable farms/mines seeded in 1857, and even all iron and coal mines even though they're unprofitable. They're so cheap why not, $70k for an iron mine and you lose like 7k a year on it at most but don't have to worry about it disappearing. And a whole bunch of unprofitable sheep ranches and logging camps if not at the start then in the 1st year, and then yeah I know slow-to-develop Lumber Mills and Textile Mills in year 2 or 3, not the best investments usually, placed in cities to eventually be able to grab cargo there rather than out in the country, with great express revenue here I want to be running a lot of trains to cities on auto consist and some good freight to haul (lumber for goals) is a must eventually to complement the irregular profitability of express (only take the highest paying pax and mail because there's always some freight to haul for $12k profit per load, rather than 7 loads of express, the last couple for $4-8k really wanting to go the other direction), and terrain is so rough here in some spots I don't want to have to worry about whether the lumber/clothing will be able to drift to a city before decaying. (On flat maps I like to plop new industries down on the same cell as the farm/mine right in the middle of a cluster of supply sources, close to a city that I'm sure will catch most of the production, I think it increases the profits of the farms/mines I own AND increases the profits of the industry, without losing too much on the rail side.) I currently own 58 industries in January 1964, $15,745k book value of industry in total (sum of purchase prices I assume) with $5,439k profit in 1963. Not bad! Especially given that 17 of them aren't even profitable yet.

PNW $7.8M, CBV $10.7K. Passed on getting rail the 1st two offers, and took 600 when offered at the start of 1863. And yeah, that's what I've decided, even though I paid the $300k to have to opportunity to get Shays down the road, just run the Americans up the grades with 4 cars. I don't recall on the 1st play any place where I was really wanting to haul a ton of cargo up grades and not back down... And don't forget the 10% boost in loco speed, it'll make more of a difference on the American's downhill than the Shay's uphill.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Coal Miner's Daughter Unread post

I'm taking a look at patching up the events that aren't working. In regards to Troops, I was thinking about leaving the general setup but removing the penalty points. You still need to have a count of exactly 6 into Hidden Temple over year-end to get the full points on offer (if you go over you will get a notice of excess with no point loss/gain attached, this means the 30 point Gold medal is still possible if you fail). Also, the suggested play is changed to haul one load of troops FROM the Tribal Villages down to Old Port City and then from there to Hidden Temple. This still isn't perfect, but is a lot more likely to actually work. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Yeah, with limited track industries are the only free-scale option, and they should set you up so you don't really worry about money through-out the scenario.

The Shays are fun to play with, but as you said they don't make or break the game. :-)
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