Great Northern

[Hawk]

The following text is a compilation of what was salvaged from the old Gathering Forum. It contains postings from several different people.
Thanks goes out to Wolverine for putting this all together.

Hawk

Great Northern
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I released my Great Northern map.
Its available at the H&P Map Archive.
http://www.exdx.net/RT2/MapArchive/
How are you at Empire Building?
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I really like your map. I failed miserably the first time out. Only got silver on easy the second. This may take awhile.
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You are welcome people. I have only gotten silver on hard myself. Going over Marias pass. I haven't tried it going through any of the Canadian passes or through Salt Lake.
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Failed miserably here too
I spent most of my time poking around to see what is on the map, and annoying the AI RR for fun I can see its gonna be quite a task to receive the gold.
I played after the finish date, wanted to keep exploring; any hints on what to edit to continue getting track?
Thanks again
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Have you visited Yellowstone?
Hmmm, I guess you mean that after the end date you can't get new track anymore. If you want to play longer you may have to go into editor and uncheck the box that has limited track. Or just change the game length to a longer time period. I think I remember someone else had this problem with the Central Pacific map.
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Great!
That map, and Krae's almost make me feel like I'm playing that (those) other RR games Now where is Europe....
If I had any talent in mapping I would try it; my attempt at brightening up one river on a map has cured me
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Another great map. I have to admit to only playing the scenario twice (and losing both times), before wanting to just build different railroads, just for the heck of it.
I've been into the editor since and taken out the track limits and made it an open ended game. It's a pretty huge map with quite diverse terrain and industrial regions. I like it a lot. I had hoped to have some better scenarios with the CD out of the box, this has made up for that lack in spades.
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Thanks for sharing this great map! Well done!
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I love this map. It has me addicted to the game again.
Thanks!
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This is one of the best maps I've played.
I lowered the terrain 25% to help the 8 Wheelers on the prairies, and tinkered with reserve cells. It's a common thing in real life for a city to be centered on a river, yet that is where we need space for our stations.
I like the variety of possible approaches, and that I still haven't figured out the best one for gold.
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Excellent job on that map! Started playing last night and it was one of those "just one more year" kind of things when I finally had to just quit. I have no idea how to succeed best on this map and I've got the feeling that more than one approach should work. Signs of a good map.
One thing I noticed tho' was that the reserved cells around Kansas City don't work very well. The default pattern tends to force a large station way out. I suspect it may get dropped from the AI's list of possible starts because of that. I wanted to start there to be near the St Louis junction and noticed the problem. I edited the reserved cells there and in Topeka to make bridges and stations easier to fit in.
BTW -- I also edited it to add 2 more AI RRs and gave them some extra money. Except for the one I joined to they're still not doing much of anything.
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I'll look at making changes in this map to further the AI. I just made them for The Prince of Steel. But in that map to trigger a rather interesting event one AI has to do well.
Thanks to something Phil said about AI choice of cities I can modify them to the AI's liking.
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A nit: there's a break in the river south of Fargo. Didn't look intentional but it could be.
Comments:
This map is tough to get medals on. It takes forever to run the cotton or coffee all the way across the map especially with the slow downs that are inevitable through the Rockies. In my first attempt I spent too long building up my RR and cash before getting the transcontinental link. Made lots of money and had lots of cities connected but didn't get much cotton/coffee through. Got a bronze but silver was out of reach for several more years.
The AI has really struggled most of the time on this map. I'm not sure why but I think it has to do with the problems we were discussing in another thread about starting locations. I noticed that the AI is avoiding virtually all the major cities on the map--and almost all of them are on or very near rivers or other water. I fiddled with the placement of a couple of them but I'm not sure I've fixed anything.
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wrote: A nit: there's a break in the river south of Fargo. Didn't look intentional but it could be.

Do you mean where the source of the Red river and the Minnesota river are real close together? That was intentional. One flows into the Mississippi and the other into Lake Winnipeg. I probably should label the Minnesota so this is more apparent.
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That would be the spot. The map I looked at was small scale and didn't clearly show what was going on so I assumed it was a break -- how convenient, Mom Nature gave us a nice spot to cross
By the way -- I think it might be worth adding a connection point further north, opposite Des Moines for Chicago maybe and/or one up around LaCrosse (Milwaukee/Chicago). They don't have to do anything directly related to the goals but you could have them create demands for things like livestock, meat, etc, and maybe generate something as well. Doesn't directly interact with the story line but gives more rationale for why the real north transcon connections were important.
Oh, and better support for me to replicate the Milw Rd path to Seattle vice GN's
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I updated the map to try to get the AI to start better railroads. Moved the city pins on a number of cities. In some cases this helped the AI. But they still do poorly.
The map is at Cyberail as my sites are out of bandwidth for the month again.
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Played it thru after making some minor mods and putting in some AI help. I got a bronze again, just missed the PNW requirement for a silver--I concentrated on the hauling requirements and either had the gold rqmt there or was real close. Typically I pump up the PNW with a merger or two but there wasn't much to merge with.
Even the AI help didn't do much (extra $150K to start, lowered track and station build costs by 30% for 3 years). Of the 5 AI I'd allowed only 3 even started RR's and only one managed to survive, none prospered. An AI almost always starts using the connection point in Canada but that's not really a good one since it will generate/demand no express. Pierre also seems to always have an AI start there. That one works out okay because I have connected to it at some point. Otherwise, the AI really can't seem to find anywhere good to start. It avoids the Twin Cities, Omaha, Kansas City and even Des Moines. I've never seen one start anywhere west of the Rockies.
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In the modified map I placed two houses in the reserve cells of the big 'X' of the Link in Canada and moved a lake near the other city up there and the AI no longer uses it. It seems just a little interference in where the AI wants to place stations will stop it.
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I've tried the Canadian route several times from various starting points including St. Paul. The most I can get is five trains running at a small profit. I don't think it's possible to complete this route. I'm not a map maker so I can't make any suggestions except Thunder
Bay (then known as Port Arthur) is/was as big a port as Deluth etc. Winnipeg should be a larger center. The port of Vancouver is as large as if not larger than Seattle (past and present).
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The way I've gone is that for the first 7 years I buy just industry. And maybe short an AI or two.
Then I have a cash base and start laying rails. I hardly ever can lay the maximum but keep up a good pace. Once I start building rails I generally don't buy more industry unless I find one that is dirt cheap and that my cargo hauling will make it gush cash.
For the Canadian route once Winnipeg and Edmonton and Calgary are connected the train income starts to come in and will eventually overtake industry.
Thanks for the info on Port Arthur, I'll update the name next version. I'll have to check references on the pop. of the cities before I change anything.
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Understand. Please be advised that when I refer to size of ports, I'm talking about the amount of ocean cargo traffic - not necessarily the population. I must haul out my encyclopedia too!
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wrote: Understand. Please be advised that when I refer to size of ports, I'm talking about the amount of ocean cargo traffic - not necessarily the population. I must haul out my encyclopedia too!

Oh. In that regard most ports are the same when they have one port (building). True Duluth/Superior can have two. Or they could upgrade which causes more traffic. But a warehouse can upgrade too. But that is a function of flow of goods.
Yeah, the Port of Vancouver had 300 pp. in 1879. I think I'll go with Port Authur for the name even though in 1879 it was called Prince Arthur's Landing. That makes the label too big.
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I've just played it on hard -- and lost. It's difficult to keep the money flowing in and expanding until you have enough trains constantly arriving at stations.
The shays are great in the mountains.
I did a save and reloaded. One of the steel mills near St Paul just disappeared. I suspect and old RRT2 style bug? I think it was a computer generated industry.
I don't think the game has industries disappear normally... does it?
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I have noticed Industries dissapearing after a few years if they are not turning a profit.
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Just as I come to download the map, the link is broken
Have we arrived at the bandwidth dilemna again?
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The latest version at Cyber rail.
http://www.cyberail.net/
H&P bandwidth won't return until Jan 1
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For some reason I'm having trouble with Cyber rail. Whenever I click on any of the maps to download, it gives me a broken link. Jan 1 is 3 days away, I might wait for your site to be up again. Thats a shame they give you limited bandwidth like that? Servers and ISPs around here aren't like that.
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wrote: I've just played it on hard -- and lost.

If you really want to be demoralized... try playing it on expert I never thought I could feel so good just getting a bronze!
I have tried Shays and Camelbacks and Consolidations through the mountains, and I think overall, Consolidations out preform the other two. This is by far the best map I have played for RRT3!
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This is the RT3 I want to play. Very hard, where one mistake can cost you a medal. To those who say there is no challenge, review the posts in this thread, most are made by RT veterns.
I played Rt2 for more than 1000 hours. That ended a year before RT3. To change the economic model back wouldn't hold my attention more than a few hours. I think most veterns would agree. RT2 was a great game in its time, but far from perfect. Moving corn across the map when corn was right next door was silly.
I don't like using shift E to clean up after new buildings and at least a partial fix is inthe works. But some complain it takes too long. In RT2 I sometimes spent an hour teraforming a mountain range to get across a map. The result was low train grades, but the worlds ugliest canyon.
The roller coaster rides the trains take and bridge inclines IMHO can be blamed on the Undo feature. If true, I'll live with it. There is always shift E if no medal is at stake.
Bottom line, PopTop sent vanilla ice cream. Their maps are for newbies and those with low end machines. I expected nothing more when I saw the system requirements before the game was released. The good news is we don't have to have vanilla. PopTop sent the fixins in the form of a map maker and an editor. So we can bitch that we don't want vanilla or open the chocolate syrup. Better yet have Mobius, Ridge Runner, John T and Kraellin make it for you. Thanks guys, awesome awesome work!
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Well put, we got a customisable game and there are some expert customisers out there. I've tried the chocolate sauce & got sticky fingers but I will master it.
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Quote: I have tried Shays and Camelbacks and Consolidations through the mountains,

I hardly ever used Shays in RT2, but in RT3 I have come to quite like them. Possibly due to the occasional roller coaster sections on the track and my new love of stacking 7-8 cars on the engine.
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I must thank you for this map and the prince of steel. GN took me over 2 weeks and many tries just on easy to complete, but it taught me alot as far as industry, PNW and just generally finding ways to make money besides just trains. Then I tried POS and it made it a lot easier to get the gold on that one, far fewer restarts and tries.....lol
Now that I have them on easy gonna work my way up and get kicked but now I have a better idea as what to do.
I hope you have more maps in the planning and ready to come out soon, looking forward to them.
I have been reading this forum for over 2 months now and finally decided to join after getting your maps and trying them.
Again I thank you for the maps and keep up the good work:)
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wrote: I hope you have more maps in the planning and ready to come out soon, looking forward to them.

I'm currently working on Trans-Siberian Railway map. It's a different kind of map than I've done before. A lot more events. And goals based on political reasons as much as on economics.
Just got done with placing rivers and cities. Rivers which has taken me two weeks. Cities took only 2 days. Man there are a lot of rivers in Asia.
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Great Northern is Great.
I've stuck with Canada - hey we can be patriotic too!
Have tried connecting into the US of A, but only to get to Superior or Dulth because Port Arthur does not produce enough cotton per year to meet my production needs by the time I get to build the rail line to the coast (usually only have 8 years left or so).
I also just connect to Seattle for the coffee (Starbucks I guess). Again I need to produce more coffee per year.
I have managed silver once in easy, in Medium I have come oh so close but missed by a couple of loads.
One wee glitch that gets annoying, the newspaper anouncing the cross Canada Connection keeps coming back, I know that the newspaper boys would run up and down yelling EXTRA EXTRA, but I don't need to be closing a newspaper every 20 seconds, a fix in the future will be coming I am sure.
Route in Canada - no luck with either the Northern Yellowhead route via Jasper (which is not on the map), nor via the Kicking Horse pass - highway three route - just cannot get through. But the central pass - the Banff route Roger's pass works well. Tunnels never seem to go where you want them and you have to build, undo and build again, time and time and time again until one finally hits without double digit grades.
I am experimenting with double track versus single track. Doubling cuts back on delays, but costs lots more.
One trick I've used is to connect lots of pairs of cities, eg. Winnpeg to Regina and Moose Jaw, Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary (sometime down to Lethbridge), Regina-Saskatoon, Vancover Seatle (like to do that one electric just for the sparks).
All in all, this is the best map I have in the lot.
Thanks to the author, keep up the good work.
Next edition needs to get to the north shore of Superior for Canadians OK eh?
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wrote: One wee glitch that gets annoying, the newspaper anouncing the cross Canada Connection keeps coming back, I know that the newspaper boys would run up and down yelling EXTRA EXTRA, but I don't need to be closing a newspaper every 20 seconds, a fix in the future will be coming I am sure.

that is easy to fix in <5 min
In the event list in the editor, find the offending event and make sure that the -one time only event- box is x'd, then save the edited game.
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wrote: I also just connect to Seattle for the coffee (Starbucks I guess). Again I need to produce more coffee per year.

tea from China
Quote: Route in Canada - no luck with either the Northern Yellowhead route via Jasper (which is not on the map), nor via the Kicking Horse pass - highway three route - just cannot get through. But the central pass - the Banff route Roger's pass works well. Tunnels never seem to go where you want them and you have to build, undo and build again, time and time and time again until one finally hits without double digit grades.

OK, here's some clues. You tunnel through (Spiral Tunnels) just as you get over the summit of Kicking Horse channel. (You must turn sharply from north to west to the cliff wall). Once through turn north sharply again to run along the ledge and then through another mountain dead in ledge run then you bridge the Columbia right before tunnelling under Rogers Pass.
In Yellow Head you follow the pass gap then go down the hill on the other side.
It looks like a mountain side there. You tunnel through this to get to a winding channel (sort of a dog leg) that leads up from Kamloops.
In Marias Pass you can go all the way to the summit of the pass. This is kind of is an 'S' pass. Or you can tunnel under the summit pass and not have to climb as high and is in a more direct line to Great Falls.
The trickiest route of all is the Cheyenne Pass to the Columbia River. After Rock Springs you have to go down a canyon to a ledge to get to Salt Lake. Over to Pocatello which is usually blocked because of buildings terriforming moniliths in the pass there. From there to Boise. From Boise you cross the Snake again and climb a ledge up to Baker. Then a narrow canyon winds to a mountain side south of Walla Walla that you must tunnel through. Then there is a long steep grade decending to the Columbia river.
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New version (1.4) of this map now available.
http://www.exdx.net/RT2/MapArchive/
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thanks for the new version, gonna go back and see what changes u made and try it again, love that map.
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Thanks, I didn't do too much from the 1.3 release. Just fixed a connection newspaper bug, added one small Canadian town and a lot of cosmetic work on the lakes. I liked the way the lakes turned out in Prince so I resurfaced the lakes in this map.
Some ppl. are starting to make CDs of RT3 maps so I thought I'd get it into perfect shape.
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After getting gold in the campaign at hard level I thought I was ready for The Great Northern on expert,how very humbling that turned out to be.
I don't remember it being this difficult in RR2 but I am eager for another try, my thanks for a such a challenging map.
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Is this map available anywhere else? The link posted is dead.
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We just burnt through our monthly width. I'll upload the latest version some of the other places.
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Thanks for making such a great map even better!
Just wish I could figure out a way to get gold; book value, np; cotton and coffee, np; cash!??
Must play more
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I am no expert, I read through a lot of posts on what to do to make cash. I did that to try and get the gold on this map. This map taught me how to do a lot of things, because I think very many things are involved in order to get the gold here. Now if someone can give me some hints on Chunnel i won't be offended........lol
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Well, I finally punched through to Sacramento last night! About 500 track sections worth on the tunnel bore (close to $13 Million), and total of over 700 from Salt Lake City. I had to start building the track at the end of one year, wait until the year ended, and finish the next, due to the 500 track section limit per year. Started moving coffee and cotton immediately, although its pretty late in the game and I don't know if I have enough time left to meet the goals. We'll see tonight!
PS, I don't know if this has been covered yet, but I discovered that you can "carry over" unused track sections from one year to the next by laying track in one year, staying in the editor, and then undo the next year.
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This map seems great so far. I have only played in Canada, so I can't comment on the US part of the map. I'm not a fan of the scenario conditions however.
I managed to get Silver, barely, on normal in Canada. The barely was caused by a long endgame depression that drove down the PWN and by the problem of getting enough cotton hauled. I now realize that I should have buldozed the Texitile mill in Winnipeg to avoid that it steals cargo.
It was also annoying that the trains hauling the connection cargo between Calgary and Port Arthur RL ran at a loss because of long hauling times and little price difference.
Tracklaying in the Rockies was fun, I built through the middle passes (Kicking Horse&Rogers?) from Calgary to Kamloops.
I don't think that I motivated to try the scenario again, but I will play the map again with some other victory conditions sometime.
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I have managed Silver-Hard in the US. I think that Canada is tougher because there are fewer options. I haven't tried Canada lately though. I never do better than silver because of the need for personal cash for gold, and it takes really good timing to be able to cash out.
I place textile mills in the west coast destination territory. This elevates the price of cotton, and some west coast ports convert clothing into coffee.
As was discussed in the recent threads about Japan Quakes, it is important to keep the destinations clear of product to help keep the price high. One way to do this is by selecting the routes your trains will take back to their source cargo stations: pick cities that with good prices for cotton or coffee. Another way is to have trains come from everywhere, to the haul-territories, and back again. They will all take some goodies back with them.
Lotsa luck next time!
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Some time back I saw a post on this forum announcing that the Great Northern Map had been updated. I had managed to get gold on the original map (Only by the skin of my teeth, and after numerous tries.) and wanted to play it again to try out a new approach.
This time I started out by building a wood empire in the Northwest. In and around Portland there were five logging camps, so I ended up with these plus a lumber mill, a furniture factory, and a paper mill - all upgraded. There were also a couple of sheep farms near Seattle. The Seattle ports trade clothing for coffee, so I put a textile mill there. All this was connected by rail and a couple of trains were set to lugging this stuff back and forth.
Going back East, I noticed that the Memphis and St Louis railheads were sending all the incoming cotton to textile mills at Jefferson City and La Crosse. The Jeff City mill was dirt cheap - 750k - so I bought it. That was my last industrial purchase.
From then on, I just concentrated on connecting Jefferson City-La Crosse, and Superior and the various cities in between to Seattle using as little track as possible. I got to Maria(?) pass above Great Falls, punched a tunnel through to Whitefish, and another to Spokane. From there I laid track through the Columbia Gorge to connect with my existing line at Portland. The entire line was finished in January 1892.
Two trains were set to hauling coffee from Seattle to Superior. After arriving there they were sent to La Crosse to pick up cotton for the return journey. Another two trains were set to hauling cotton from Jeff City and La Crosse to Seattle, bringing coffee back on their return journey. Consolidated engines were used. 30 coffee and 30 cotton were delivered by late 1901.
Early on, I bought the parent company's stock on margin. After the initial period of explosive growth started winding down, I stopped buying this stock and started buying up the AI's stock, selling mine as needed in order to do so. Then I connected my road to them in order to make sure they got fat and happy. (and I got rich) . From this point on, I gradually sold off my parent company stock keeping just enough to maintain control of the company.
After them road was completed in 1892, I just accumulated cash until I had 20 mil on hand. I used this to take over the AI company. Doing this increased the company book value to >50 mil and my personal cash to 23 mil. All winning conditions were then met and I got gold in Jan 1902.
The main thing here was the income from the wood industries in the Northwest. By the time Seattle was connected in 1892, these industries and the local rails had made over 30 mil profit. This enabled me to build the maximum amount of track allowable every year.
This has got to be one of the best maps around. The goals are such that players are prevented from using a lot of tried and true strategies. You can't, for instance, totally concentrate on industry, and then punch a line through near the end of the game. There is the little matter of hauling cotton and coffee to consider. (I needed about ten years to get this done.) Some of the more common robber baron tricks are also defused because both company BV and personal cash are needed to win.
Has anyone ever managed win gold using the Canadian route? Has anyone ever managed to win anything using the Canadian Route?
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I just finished my first couple attempts with this map, and I found out the deal about not being able to use tried-and-true strategies. I think the map is beautifully crafted, and the goals are really on the edge.
The thing that drives me absolutely nuts however, is the difficulty in laying track on maps such as these. I struggled for more than an hour to try and get a line sprung off from Portland and into the gorge. I then could not navigate the gorge without creating an almost continuous bridge, and therefore eating up precious resources. If I make bridges rare, it just makes the whole process even more clumsy and frustrating.
Why is it so dang hard to work through mountains? I really hope the track laying process is much improved in RRT4.
And by the way, the waterfalls in the Cascades are really something.
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Running a line into the gorge from Portland is tricky. I ended up by having the tracks and the station on the North side of the river. If placed right, then you only need one fairly short bridge to get back on the South side of the river and into the gorge.
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I just tried again. I got my economy going well, and I tried heading north from Vancouver this time with the idea that I could build a textile mill up around some sheep farms and shorten the trip to Seattle.
I worked so hard on trying to lay the track up there, that my wrist is sore from wiggling the ****** pointer to and fro.
I think I'll stick to the flat maps like Mississippi Valley. When they get a better track laying algorithm, I'll head back to the mountains.
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If you look closely the mountain routes are marked by lighter colored ground. A sort of tan.
Also have a few practice test game starts just running down the Columbia gorge and run the railroad along the south shore. It is wide enough that you can skirt the cliffs and not make any bridges except over the two branch streams. Try a test too for the passes that you intend to go for. The Canadian ones are harder than the American ones.
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I have got the Canadian Gold before. It is quite a bit harder that is for shure. I have taken this map and put the Prince conditions just to play around. I did add toys, ammo, and weapons factories to be built in that. I like to build about 6 or so railroads on this map. Either the Great Northern one or the modded one. It can help connection time and the old pocket as well.
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Just finished my all-Canadian try at this map; actually was through to Vancouver faster than I usually get to Seattle
I just never seem to get all the conditions met. On a few attempts I have managed all conditions except "cash". How in the world do you get all the other stuff done AND keep the cash for yourself?
I've tried the "run'em up and buy'em out" trick with AI's, but they all usually end up broke so its a one time thing. I did some of the enron trick once, but that had really strange effects on value of my main company.
Somehow I get the feeling that I'm missing something
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The one AI on my map started with a line Winnepeg-Morden, and later expanded to Fargo. By 1888, they were making a modest profit every year and that company was worth about 1.5 mil. During that year I bought enough stock to get a majority position, then connected to Fargo from Minneapolis.
After that I more or less ignored them except to buy more stock as it became available. By 1902 they were worth about 10 mil and had 160k shares outstanding of which I owned 156k. At this time I had accumulated about 3 mil personal cash from selling parent company stock and AI dividends.
After connecting to Seattle in 1892, I had the parent company just sit on its duff and accumulate cash. By 1902 they had 20+ mil and a CBV of 51 mil. I used the entire 20 mil to merge with the AI. Almost all of this ended up in my pocket bringing my personal cash to 23 mil - enough to win.
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wrote: Running a line into the gorge from Portland is tricky. I ended up by having the tracks and the station on the North side of the river. If placed right, then you only need one fairly short bridge to get back on the South side of the river and into the gorge.

Thanks for the help, however I fixed my problem. I did just what the original rail companies did - I went into the editor and plowed a cut right through the mountains. In fact, I spent the rest of the evening modifying a good part of the river valleys, and especially the area from Seattle to Portland. I actually like the results, and having spent several years in the northwest, I think the results actually look closer to the real thing.
The problem with most of these maps is that, although they're beautifully crafted, the scaling problems make them nearly unplayable. And add to that the terraforming (terror forming?) issue when placing stations, and one can could go completely mad!
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I have found that the AI can manage a decently built railroad fairly well. This means if you give it control of a railroad connecting 4 or 5 towns, good service placement, and no whacky grades just to keep a straight line it will do well. Also buying the right amount of engines seems to help also. There seems to be a "zone" almost to this last bit. If they have too few they will run them but don't seem to buy more. If they have too many they will go crazy and buy 50 trains headed for the same two cities.
Sometimes the AI makes it and sometimes not. Most of the time they go broke but the lines I build make money. I usually build feeder lines to my transcontinental route except for Whitefish-Portland which I build with an AI. I start this one right at the end of the year so I can jump back in at the start of the next year and complete the line. Once I have several transcontinental haulage trains going I will merge this one in to aleviate train priority in the mountains.
A good way to drive up your cash is to sell stock back to the company. If it is a booming operation the stock price will recover quickly enough due to book value rising back from proffits. This can also be handy to drive down the stock price for a critical merger. I tend to make most of my money from dividends and stock buy backs rather than mergers.
Lastly the start is critical in this. I either build an industry and buy resources a bit apart so I can sell my stock at the start and buy back in right when production starts for a low cost, or I go with the west coast lumber trick and use dividends and buybacks. Getting firm controll and purchasing power quick is critical. Usually the first additional railroad I build I don't have controlling interest in but I am building it to tie into my line nd if close enough an AI for prosperities sake. I generally do buy controlling interest latter. As has been stated it takes about 10 years to satisfy the haulage so that puts a time cap on the railroad completion. I like to approach this in three stages. Stage one is laying a solid and controlled by me financial base. Second is the route and I am not bashfull about using a dummy company or two to get rails down. Third is any needed mergers and the haulage. Through out all these stages I am working towards the cash goal. Remember if all else fails stocks can be sold right at the end for cash.
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Thanks, there are a cpl things there that I could use better than I have
I have to admit, I learn new things about this map almost every time I play. Last game, doing the Canadian route and crawling through Kicking Horse/Rogers showed me that passes (as opposed to tunnels) are'nt that bad.
I'll just keep plugging away at it until i get it all to come together in one game
Since I wrote the above I went and tried POS. Instead of using buy-outs I did what you suggest: start new companies with majority control and turn them over to AI after creation; worked very well Having control of 2 or more profitable companies really pumps PNW; cash is also much better...the company given over to the AI seems to like very high dividends.
That got me gold in POS at hard; will have to see if I can make it work on expert. The results give me hope for Northern as well
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Finally! I hadn't played this map for quite a while becuase I was waiting for the last patch. I got gold on Great Northern on expert! I even did it one year early. It took me long enough to figure it out.... geeze! I just wanted to take this opertunity to thank Mobius once again for a friggin brilliant map! Without this map, and POS, I would have probably stopped playing RRT3 all together after I finished the campaign. Thanks Mobius! You have your work cut out for you to top this map! I can't wait to play your next one!
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Congrats! I concur with your assessment of this map, as it is also one of my favorites. Unfortunately so far, all I've made on Expert is Bronze.
Care to share your technique?
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Thanks, I'd be glad to. The key I think is industry. Milk farms and Dairy Processors and Lumber mills. I Looked around at the beginning for a couple of Milk farms that were just built and barely producing. They cost about 550k each, witch is just enough to buy two from the start. Later on, depending on where they are, they will produce a solid 180-220k a year. Keep a close eye out for the Dairy farms that appear, and isuue bonds if you have to purchase them. I didn't lay any rail the first couple of years and used what profit was coming in to buy a grain farm and a logging camps. After the second year I laid track connected to the AI so that the AI was paying me a good 98% of his profit for any train he ran on my rails. I think my first connection was Kansas City to Omaha. Then I connected Seattle to Olympia, and waited for a few logging camps to sprout up around Olympia. I bought up three of the first lumber camps to sprout up, then I purchased the saw mill in Portland just before it started making profits. You also want to watch for a furniture factory in Portland and buy it up as soon as it starts to make a profit. I also made sure to purchase enough stock in the AI company to always have control. That is key to later on in the game when you do a takeover. It may mean some negative cash flow for a while, but it is well worth it as long as YOUR company is profitable. I then spent the next 15 years or so laying track through the mountains to Walla Walla, on to Spokane and winding around the mountains through Whitefish. I built a tunnel through Marias Pass, expensive, but it keeps the grade constant. During this time I built several Dairy processors at points were I could make a profit hauling milk to, and cheese from the processor. You need to watch close though, because sometimes a Dairy processor will pop up at the right location before you get a chance to build it. In that case, issue bonds if you have to buy one in a profitable location. If your lucky, the AI will continue to expand. Even if you have to run trains on his rails to make a profit, that's OK. Be sure and run trains between every city you connect. Once you get the connection made, send as many trains as you can afford carrying coffee from Seattle or Olympia to Duluth, and from Jefferson City, or the St' Louis Rail link to Seattle loaded with cotton. Use the Consolidation engine, the 4-4-0 is faster, but on grades it crawls. The 4-4-0 is very good for your flat runs after they become available late in the game.
Don't make the mistake of trying to buy up all of your own company stock! Get your own company as profitable as possible. Let your own stock split and don't worry about it as long as you have control. Another pitfall is after you have made the cross country connection, sometimes the consist won't let you run cotton to Seattle because it just isn't profitable. It helps if you build a Textile mill in Seattle or Olympia just to keep up the demand. After i made the connection, I waited a few years and let my company build up as much cash as possible. Steel mills and Tool and Dies really help building up company cash. By this point, I was about 5 Mill in debt. The personal cash took me a while to figure out, this is how I did it. I owned over 100k stock in the AI company. I issued all the bonds that I had left and got my company cash up to about 29 Mill. I did a takeover of the AI company with about 2 years to go. The AI, I think, had about 10k in his own stock. I did the takeover, but instead of the minimum, witch I believe was around 12 Mill, I offered 29 Mill. That more than offset the 5 Mill I was in debt, plus a few mill to the AI, the rest went strait into my bank account, a wopping 21 Mill! More than enough for the 20 Mill Goal.
Basically, you have to use ALL your skills as a tycoon to win this map. Industry, profitable rail lines AND the stock market! Anyone that thinks RRT3 has lost all the strategy in RRT2 should try this map! Again, great work Mobius!! Great Northern is a masterpiece!
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Congratulations!
I have never managed better than a silver on this scenario.
It certainly is addictive
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Hey guys, I love this map but find it very tough. Three times now and ... failure. I almost made it this time ... well, not really. I had coffee going to Duluth all right but didn't get the cotton going to Seattle in time.
But, gawd, going laying track through those mountains is something else!
But it's the kind of great map you can just keep playing over and over and enjoying -- even when you come up short.
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I agree. I can play this map over and over
I never seem to have trouble with the haulage; expand fast and get to the stuff you need asap. If you're lucky you can find a concentration of cotton at the warehouse(s), or a nearby textile; link up, load up and run for Seattle.
The hardest part (for me) is getting on with the goals; I tend to wallow in building and connecting industries, sometimes forgetting that there is a time limit.
I have never managed the cash requirement for gold btw
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When I played this scenario there was a textile mill located in Jackson City which had a ton of cotton waiting to be processed. When I was ready to ship cotton, I just ran from there to Seattle saving a hundred miles or so.\
Also, I found that if I punched tunnnels through to Spokane, I could then run tracks up the Columbia Gorge thus avoiding the Cascades, and also picking up some change from Walla Walla, Portland, and Olympia frieght.
This is, IMHO, one of the best scenarios around.
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wrote: This is, IMHO, one of the best scenarios around.

Count me in on that opinion also, Grumpus. It's the kind of scenario that does justice to the game. Multiple requirements for medals, beautiful map, difficult challenge.
And the passes are done perfectly (unless you get greedy for some timber in the mountains and try to cover them with a large station - ouch, talk about terraforming. )
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Sounds great! Where are you gents finding this scenario, I don't see it on game menu.
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It's a user made map created by Mobius. It may be in other places as well, but I picked it up over at his H&P's map yard
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H&P is here:
http://www.exdx.net/RT3/index.html
Great site with a bunch of great maps.
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Wow, that is a great site! Hadn't known of it before, thanks for the tip.
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wrote: Hey guys, I love this map but find it very tough. Three times now and ... failure. I almost made it this time ... well, not really. I had coffee going to Duluth all right but didn't get the cotton going to Seattle in time.

But, gawd, going laying track through those mountains is something else!
But it's the kind of great map you can just keep playing over and over and enjoying -- even when you come up short.
it took me over a week and a lot more trys then I care to mention.......lol
between this 1 and POS , in my opinion, have to be 2 of the best maps created. I play them over and over again. I'm not knocking any of the other maps out there, alot of good ones, just these 2 are my favourites.
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Dateline: St. Paul, Minnesota Jan, 1, 1907
One of our great leaders in this industrial age is gone. Sadly we must report the tragic demise of StevenB, railroad entrepreneur. He will be remembered most for dream he accomplished of building his remarkable railroad, which stretched all the way to Seattle WA, and throughout the south.
Authorities have not released details but this correspondent has it on good authority that he was found dead on the street outside the tallest building in downtown St. Paul, from an apparent fall. The rumors abound that Mr. B's spirits had not been the same since the five year long depression in the late 1800's which left his financial state in shambles. Local businessmen have indicated that he had been heavily margined in the stock market just prior to the crash.
There are unconfirmed reports that he had initially survived the fall with one witness quoting his last words as "but I had the coffee and cotton hauls" There is no one locally who can confirm what these cryptic words might mean.
He was found in his bathrobe, with a bronze medal around his neck.

[Eb Zane]

add another fan of Great Northern. Lots of fun with that just one more year appeal.

I only got silver on ez first try. PNW/PC didn't come close -5mill. I'll be trying again soon.

Great map and hats off for the great water falls in the mountains and the smaller one at Great Falls

PB

[Cliff]

Has anyone tried this one in the past 8 years?? Just wonderin'. I remember completing this scenario way back when it was new, but I forget the details. I tried it today 'cause it looked fun -- and 'cause I couldn't get a couple of other maps (Alaskan Adventure, Rail Baron East) to show up in my scenario selections in the main menu. And also 'cause I run an old rig with Vista & have RRT3 from Steam so can't use the 1.06 patch, and that narrows the map selection for me quite a bit.

So, anyway, I managed to get Expert Silver on this one on the 2nd try. Started in Canada (Winnipeg) after buying 3 dairies with the start-up money + 1 bond, and then buying another 3-4 dairies and a couple of oil wells in the next two years before laying rail. Expanded to the west to Calgary and Edmonton with no major problems, connecting most of the half-star towns enroute -- these little places hardly ever have anything to haul, but always have an initial high demand for goods, meat, etc. where the demand has diminished at the other little towns. Was planning to connect to Vancouver through the Rockies, but couldn't make it work, so ended up connecting to Spokane and then Portland & Seattle.

The one poor little AI was running (count 'em) five trains between Kansas City & Topeka and barely breaking even. I helped him out early on by connecting both ends of his track to a couple of other stations, but didn't run any trains; the AI took full advantage of this new track, and paid me well for the privilege. I slowly bought up the AI during one of the recession-depression cycles, and then merged with it during a boom time with only 2-3 years to go before the scenario ended. By far the hardest requirement to win gold in this scenario is to have $20 million personal cash. I didn't make it by a long shot -- I had a PNW of over $20 million, and after merging with the AI for top-dollar (I owned almost all of the AI stock), I ended up with about $1.5 million cash. I increased my dividend to over $3 million per year for the last two years but never managed to come close to the required $20 million cash.

Other than that the scenario was doable: Haul 30 loads of coffee from Seattle to Duluth & haul 30 loads of cotton from Duluth to Seattle. (Or between Port Arthur and Vancouver -- but I found the connections through the mountains nuch easier to Seattle than to Vancouver). The coffee & cotton are spouting from ports in Seattle/Vancouver and Duluth/Port Arthur.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Play this one every so often. Haven't done a Canadian start yet as I love trying to re-create the Empire Builder route with this. Mainly the reason I haven't done a Canadian start yet is the Canadian Rockies. Though I plan on doing one next time I play as I finally want to send a train through Kicking Horse Pass bad enough.

[RulerofRails]

I have played this one, but after playing some of the spin-offs based on the same map such as Transcontinental by EPH and Deadwood Dakota by Ned (a TM beta). There may have been another one also. So I was familiar with the excellent features of the map topography and scenery. This has to been one of the best maps I have ever seen in this regard. Here the limited track combined with the requirement for the loads limited me, as I couldn't build as fast as I could reach the economic goals, so I ended up developing some unnecessary industries on the side for fun. I was playing against one AI and made the straightest possible track which gave me Gold in 20 years. Of course, I was playing as a single company (never switched companies or started new ones to get more track and PNW). I suppose this map is well designed for those styles of play. I ended the game with 100% ownership of my company and to get the cash I used some dividends and then merged the AI at a premium in the last few months to make up the difference (same as you did). I have yet to try Canada, although I have built track through there in other versions. Those passes are spectacular! There are many industry options which can be developed either side of the border. Last play I had three Steel Mills going. A great map, good to see that others are still enjoying it too. Many thanks to Steve!

Sorry to hear that you didn't quite make Gold. Sounds like you found a good starting strategy. As there is limited track here, maybe you should look for some more industrial opportunities to boost company profits next time. Judging when to stop expanding and pay full dividends is one of the finer points of strategy, IMO. Hope you get there next time.

[AdmiralHalsey]

One of my favorite things to do with towns not having a lot of demand is to create it myself. Just plop down an industry that you have the requisite resources already hooked up to your line and there you go. Helps build the towns up even occasionally.

[Cliff]

Play this one every so often. Haven't done a Canadian start yet as I love trying to re-create the Empire Builder route with this. Mainly the reason I haven't done a Canadian start yet is the Canadian Rockies. Though I plan on doing one next time I play as I finally want to send a train through Kicking Horse Pass bad enough.

Have you ever seen how the Trans-Canadian Railroad actually traverses the Rockies in Alberta and British Columbia? They blasted miles & miles of spiral tunnels & connected the track to the next ridge with gigantic bridges. I think I remember reading that the max grade is 3% on the entire route, and even at that they have to attach extra engines to each train as it starts over the mountains.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Play this one every so often. Haven't done a Canadian start yet as I love trying to re-create the Empire Builder route with this. Mainly the reason I haven't done a Canadian start yet is the Canadian Rockies. Though I plan on doing one next time I play as I finally want to send a train through Kicking Horse Pass bad enough.

Have you ever seen how the Trans-Canadian Railroad actually traverses the Rockies in Alberta and British Columbia? They blasted miles & miles of spiral tunnels & connected the track to the next ridge with gigantic bridges. I think I remember reading that the max grade is 3% on the entire route, and even at that they have to attach extra engines to each train as it starts over the mountains.

I've seen photos of it. The fact that they were able to do much of what the route is still using back then always impresses me. One of my bucket list items is to travel that route whether it be by car or train.(hopefully train)