Greece 1857: for testing

[Blackhawk]

Ah yes I knew I forgot to mention something. I don't remember being able to ship troops to Volos. I think 1 shipped legitimately, but I gave up on waiting for more to appear and ship, or if they would ship. I waited a couple years for the connection and only 1 load of troops appeared that wanted to go to Volos, so I loaded up a train with troops who wanted to go to the barracks in Marathon and I changed the train's route to Volos.

[RayofSunshine]

After reading all the threads, I must have done most of the play in this last version correctly. But I usually only play in the Medium level on testings.

I had a very close call on the "passengers" to Kalamata. Barely made the deadline this attempt, compared to a much higher number in the previous versions. That might be due to the programming being changed.

The only set back was that to obtain the 1,000 car hauls. To this point of being given the "opportunity for a VP" I only had 297, and was only missing 12 cities, which were of a distance from my routings. At this point I made cnn for the balance of 10, as I didn't have the funding for the "high bridge" to the Ionian Is, or to bridge to Chalkyda.

With the addition of these cities, as well as the access to both Epiros and Makadania (?), I was able to attain 689 as a final tabulation.

Now some of this previous figure was in a "fault" of play. I ran an a couple of 8 consist of steel to my "weapons plant", only to have them return back to Athens "tool and die". Although there wasn't any revenue from Athens, I was more interested at the time to get the steel to the plant for weapons. Sort of back fired, but the return revenue made up for the non-revenue from Athens.

So I ended up with a Gold, with 11 or 12 VPs.

But seeing that others were having the same problem with the attainment of the 1000 hauls, if that figure is changed, the 12VPs could be obtainable, and a lot of fun in the challenge. Great scenario Brunom.

[brunom]

Congrats on that Ray. 11 out of 12 is nearly perfect!

I'm still waiting on more reviews, before I call the beta stage finished and start painting, but I am happy with the result so far. I've made a few extra changes, which will appear only in the first RC (release candidate, with the map already colored):

- troops production and weapons prices will spike every time Crete rebels or conflicts start (Russian-Ottoman war, Greek-Ottoman war).
- one extra barracks is spawned when VP4 is presented.
- some texts have seen minor corrections
- VP10 now asks for 700 cars moved, not 1,000
- Chalkyda channel has ports pre-laid on both sides, to make sure cargo moves into the island and out of it
- I changed the opening briefing, to warn about PNW goals (see below)

question... in one of the first comments, arop mentioned he wanted to see more towns.. well, he normally does, and I normally don't plot so many, so what does the rest of you say?
second question... I am under the impression that even a baby could get at least 4 vp's.. any suggestions about correcting vp targets for the medals?

B

...<.>... ...<.>...

At the end of this scenario, you should have 10 victory points if you want a GOLD medal, 7 victory points for a SILVER medal or 4 victory points for a BRONZE medal.

You should be aware that the victory points will be awarded depending on targets that are varied. You will have haulage targets, company profit/revenue targets, personal wealth targets and city/territory connections demands. Use a varied and careful strategy to reach success.

Over the length of the scenario, there will be 12 opportunities for VP's - only - so don't waste them!

[Hawk]

Personally I think awarding the VP's when the condition is met would be a good thing.

I also think VP7 is a bit too easy. If I remember right, in 3 or 4 different attempts I've ended up with more than 50.

And.....I don't think 20 is an unreasonable goal for VP3.

[Blackhawk]

Maybe I'm being too harsh here, but I'd say for gold you should have to get at least 11 out of 12 (or at least for those playing on expert). As long as you give the player warning that there will be a PNW requirement at some time then I don't think it's unfair to require 11 out of 12 VP, proving that you can master each area of play.

Then Silver could then be 8 or 9. (It would assume you could do everything else but the 2 Personal Wealth goals). And then Bronze could be maybe 6, as that's at least half the VP points and requires some effort to get.

As for the amount of cities, I think they're sufficient. If you create too many cities then it takes away from the aspect of this scenario in it being a difficult place to try and make a successful railroad.

I also agree with Hawk, it would be nice if you were awarded VP points once you satisfy the goal, but as long as the VP's are awarded that's all that matters in the end.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I agree with Blackhawk and Hawk about awarding VPs when the condition is met. It would also reduce clutter in the Ledger if the notices about pending VP completion were removed when the VP is awarded. Some of them keep showing up well after the conditions are met. You could add a couple of conditions to the "ledger" events associated with each one to check that the conditions HAVE NOT been met and only have them show up if the VP has not been awarded. Most tasks were met very early on after they were annonced, so I found myself playing several years in a row on the fastest speed, just to get along to the next one. I realize that some of the tasks are "time-based", but other ones could be presented as soon as all previously assigned tasks have been completed. I'm not one for long drawn-out scenarios, especially if there's a lot of idle time in between assigned tasks.

As for the scenario itself, I found it very easy to get all 12 VPs even on Expert, with no "Tycoon tactics" necessary, just smart playing, such as issuing stock every year for the first few years, and buying it, then buying back stock and selling when the PNW and cash VPs arise. I was getting lots of PAX to their destination simply by linking several cities to the destination and running trains back and forth. I got to 20 PAX in a year or so, and went way beyond that as time progressed. The 1000 loads was a snap too. With a fairly extensive network of rails and 80 or so trains, it was easy to get ~1500 loads per year. The only one that took any great degree of planning was getting the troops moving. The secret here is to be constantly monitoring the station that covers the destination barracks and look for troops wanting to go there. As soon as I saw some, I set up a train and sent them. It only took a few years to get the 5 loads, but I did have to build my own Weapons Factory, and supply it with Steel and Lumber to get the Weapons haul requirement. It meant stealing some Steel from the Athens area (where I had built a Tool & Die plant), but once the goal was met, I stopped sending the Steel and sold off the Weapons Factory.

I think the number of cities is just right, but I was a little disappointed that I only had a few years to exploit the last available territory. Building rail to the last two cities was just that: build the lines and collect the VPs. There was little opportunity, or incentive, to expand the system in the final territory.

[Hawk]

but I was a little disappointed that I only had a few years to exploit the last available territory.

It would have been nice to have access to Thessaloniki sooner to be able to utilize the steel there for the weapons factory.

[brunom]

Thanks for all your comments..

I've been short on "hobby time", which means a colored version is still to get started.

Some short replies to your comments:

Unlike you fellas, I like the idea of having VP's awarded (or not) at a specific date. It helps the player to compare his performance with what is expected for a regular player (if you have $12M PNW and the game expects 7.5, you know you're doing good). I appreciate that for expert player it will become "clutter in the ledger", but a lot of the VP's aren't that easy. The ledger "page" may fill up during specific periods, but it never overflows.
Also, the Patrai-to-Corinth VP works better if checked at an end date, as you can gather from previous posts. If this was to be the only one not awarded "on completion", it could look awkward.

I agree that the top part of the map is almost useless. If you take a look at the thread I wrote in the Map Edition sub-forum ("HOW TO: Make an historical scenario"), you'll understand that I cropped the map based in the modern country borders. Only later I found out that Makedonia became part of Greece 60 years after the first trains. This was a problem which I tried to solve by making it a long scenario (though I know not everyone agrees it is a nice trade-off)
In this scenario I won't change it. However, once the map is colored and released, it would be easy to clean all events, change borders to present day borders and rewrite a simpler scenario, say, in the 1960's. That would make the whole of the map much more useful - and in that one could include the major coal mines currently explored in Chalkyda and northeast Makedonia.
To be considered...

B

[brunom]

Scenario finished. Painting it was a mess, basically because colors are "opposite" to the typical pattern - Greece is greener in the mountains and dry/dusty in the lower coastal regions. A satisfying result was finally achieved, some trees thrown about to make for forests in the mountains, and that's the end of it. I will not look at this map again with "paintbrush tools".

Maybe... in the future... I could reprogram it to make it a 1957 scenario. I think the map asks for it - either by me or by someone else.

Thread closed, attachments removed, file submitted to the archives.
BM

[RayofSunshine]

Good job of painting Brunom.

[zerium]

brunom, you did a fantastic job!
I like scenarios with different tasks and victory points. Only the first task (what a start:D) was a failure for me. Maybe I didn't understand the task, one cargo was transportet to Piraeus, five to Athens in the first year. Anyway, the other tasks worked for me.
In my opinion the task to connect 16 cities is to easy, i connect them all (on expert) except the one city on the island. And for a long period, the shares were to cheap, less than 50% of the real price. At the same time in the middle of the game with the long time tasks, I had nothing to do and buyback a lot of shares to increase my net worth. So it was easy to get the task with 7,5 million in cash, buyback shares, rise dividend...
Anyway, i had much fun and alwayss something to do. Not easy in such a long scenario.
And, of course, innovative and interesting way to tell us something about the younger history of greece and nice idea to create different regions with access after historic events.

[brunom]

Thank you Ray and zerium

Glad you enjoyed the scenario. It wasn't the most pleasurable to create (paint wise), but it turned out ok.

B

[yianni79]

I have just downloaded the map. Bruno, thank you for giving me opportunity to play this senario. Ok, it is nice to play all around the world, but there is nothing like home...

Anyway, at a first glance there are some town names that need to be corrected. Will you correct them if I send you the proper names?

[brunom]

Hi Yanni

Of course I will correct it - I wish I had a "local" for every map I create.. However, mind that the game is set in the XIX century, a lot of the names are spelled like they were at the time, sometimes with "Ottoman" names.

I'm not sure if changing historical names either of Ottoman or Slavic origin to modern Hellenic names makes the map any better but, send the list of changes and we'll get the work started.

If any cities seem misplaced, please let me know as well.

B

[yianni79]

I was absent during all this period. I will have to check the 19th century names of towns. Once I am done, I will post back. I hope that I'll find more free time. A few towns may need small relocation, not big changes though.

Edit: It is hard to find free time during summer in Greece.

[RayofSunshine]

I have a little confusion on the idea of the "points" awarded.
On my 1st attempt, some time ago, I received a "point" award, as I had completed the requirement of hauling a "specific" commodity between Athens, and Preasus. And the instructions had indicated that it was an eash task
However, in my latest attempts in playing the scenario, I have not been able to received such "point", as the notice indicates that I had "failed to haul the specific commodity". Which brings up the suject, as to which commodity is of the "specific" nature.
Reason? I 1st tried the Distillery, as there being a supply of produce, although I don't believe I hauled alcohol.
Then being that the port at Preasus supplies "steel", I took out a bond for the Weapons Factory. Again I don't remember if I actually hauled any "weapons", to no avail.
So I then tried the Munitions, but again don't recall any "ammunitions" being carried, and still to no avail.
Lastly the only industry left in Athens, was the Tool & Die, but even with a bond, it was an inadequate amount for its purchase, which would have given me "goods" to haul.
That only left "milk, steel, and produce" being hauled, as I don't recall that of ammo and weapons.

NOW, what commodity is that "specific"? Of which I have yet to determine, and especially with the creators mention that this would be an """easy start""" to begin the attainment of points.

[belbincolne]

Well puzzled by this as the original played o/k but this time in first year I was so profitable that I connected every town in the area available. No Point awarded as I'd not carried anything from Piraeus - I'd actually carried 8 loads - and at least 2 from every other town.

[RayofSunshine]

Well, I even downloaded it again from scratch, in the hopes that it might change some configuration, although like you Bel, I basically hauled every commodity, with getting the "point". Only the notice that I didn't carry the "specific" commodity to Presus.

[brunom]

Guys,

I can't quite understand your troubles. I checked the events programming and played a trial run, everything works fine, as it should. What matters for that first VP is specific cargo being hauled into or from the port town. There's a small hidden region around the port building which encompasses the city, the game counts the loads of steel you transport out of that region and the loads of clothing you transport into that region. If both counts are 1 haul or more, you get the VP at the deadline date. The ledger also works well and allows you to keep track of it.

I can only see a problem if you placed the station too close to Athens and out of the port town... then, you get penalized for being "cheap", and it serves you right!

Happy Summer!
B

[belbincolne]

Well I'd checl - but see my Windows7 post