Crystal Cotton Revisited

[Orange46]

GM, I think you have the essence of the scenario. I just hate piling up cash or building everywhere unless I need to. The dividends give you a real reason to make all of the money you're making anyway. Hawk, if you can credit 2 people for this scenario, GM deserves the other credit.

I tried to cut down the express loads in the scenario, but I never actually tested to see if my instructions worked. In my other scenarios, I was successful in getting the express loads down. Unfortunately, express loads go up geometrically with the number of stations (actually, houses at stations, I think), although one of the patches cut this down some.

Also, KL, the coal iron mismatch happens frequently in RT3. It's a design flaw that hopefuly will be fixed in a future version of the game. The whole economy model, while good, is not perfect and needs to respond better to imbalances. Elsewher I've noted my desirs toward this end so I won't bore you here. But, that is why us humans are here - to ship coal to the iron heavy mill.

[KevinL]

Well, I finally got silver, but it was a struggle! Going for the gold now. I quite like the dividends as I was making loads of money and no reason to spend it. I had paid $45 million without really trying and company cash was about $11m at the end.
I went for ammo and the crystals, of course. I was absolutely concentrating on making the ammo, dedicated grain trains to a small station that just fed the ammo warehouse. I found the train crashes were a lot less once I cut down on the number of loads per train to four.
The thing with passengers I think is a feature - or fault - of the basic game itself, the way RRT3 was programmed to begin with. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think one of the (official) patches was meant to calm down the production of passengers a bit.
Don't know what's wrong with your coal and iron, there should be an equal chance of either or both appearing in the coal/iron regions. Do you go into the Editor at all, or are you more of a player? If you look in the Editor, you can see where the different regions are and what should be in them.

I guess you're just a better player than me. I also have a hard time with the people stealing my ammo from St Louis and shipping it across the river to the warehouses themselves. Crystals are easy because there are lots of cotton near Memphis, but I still couldnt get even 100 loads delivered after 50 years. How many trains are you running to the warehouses? I can only afford two dedicated trains (set on high priority) from each city to the warehouses. And I try to connect each city on the way with either a medium or large station, and run another train to each city to make money. As I make more money I create spur lines that go directly to the warehouse so they dont have to run thru the cities. I'm making 2 million or so per year towards the end, and I'm spending it on new trains or stations, but the dividends put me a million or more in the hole. This last time I think I ended up with $35 mil in dividend payments.

[Hawk]

Hawk, if you can credit 2 people for this scenario, GM deserves the other credit.

Done!

[Grandma Ruth]

Orange & Hawk, thank you both kindly. You're true gentlemen!

But you won't be happy to hear this. I've found a fault with the Silver and Bronze events and I'm going to have to give some thought to how to put it right. I was doing fine, almost got the Gold - in fact I met every target except the dam' weapons quota. When it ended, I didn't get the Silver I expected or even the Bronze, but a Lose!! Was I mad!

I can see what's wrong - the silver demands you have less than $50m in bonuses, where I had more than that. I just need to look at it and think a bit. Any ideas welcome!

Kevin, I hope you're not going to abandon this scenario! Let me fix this and then maybe you'll have a go at the umpteenth version.

[Grandma Ruth]

I think it's finished!! I have asked Hawk to replace the previous version with what I hope is the final one!
I have tested it with a sort of "sandbox", I still haven't actually won fair and square but I am at least fairly confident that it's all working right.

[Hawk]

The new version is now available.

Ruth and Richard.

[edbangor]

I played this one last night, and the first thing to report is that it appears to work perfectly so thanks for all of those invlovled

On down side is that I completely messed it up and when time ran out I "lost" (first time that's happened since I restarted playing RT3)
What's worse is I'm not sure what I did wrong, so it was probably a lot of minor things mouting up, but I was unable to get anywhere near the 250 targets for Bronze, although crystals were close. Weapons and Ammo though were pittifully short but that due to me waiting too long to realise I had to set up a production chain to produce them as the native supplys were no where near enough to do it 'naturally'.

Maybe next time.

[Orange46]

Can you believe that I have never played this scenario - i.e. the final version! But, since I can now play in 1.06, I will have to give it a go after I try to connect a bunch of Mississippi river cities in another scenario.

[Pat in the desert]

I just downloaded and tried this scenario in the last couple of days. First without reading any comments , then after finding it vague and confusing I looked at the comments.
The scenario starts out very slowly. You can't do bonds or anything in the stock market so it's strictly a cash economy. And the density of the cities and resources is very low. After studying the map I started in Memphis and connected to Jackson and also to some cotton farms just past Jackson, since Memphis had textile mill and some warehouses that demanded cotton. That generated some money. Expansion was horribly slow - it took 2 years to get from Jackson to Paducah which is too small to generate much traffic. Then it was almost 2 years later and I was crawling towards Mt. Vernon. When I said "this is not fun" and went into the editor. A scenario should not be like a death march. I put in some people (houses and such) into cities from Mt. Vernon to Chicago and a few others. And a little cash to lay track with.
So now I have gotten to St. Louis and Chicago and Nashville and starting to get a real network. The year is 1861. And now ALL the profits are being confiscated in the form of special dividends. And I mean all the profits. Company cash is left at 600 or 700K in the hole. there's no way to build a network all the way over to the Eastern side of the map if one can't even replace crashed trains or lay track. Can't see how this was fun or interesting. So i have revisited the editor and am taking out all the 'dividend' confiscation events that I can figure out. Taxation Without Representation . That might make it at least playable for me.

[RayofSunshine]

A real challenge, Par in the Desert? But you are not alone. I have had the same difficulty with the financing. It is a great scenario, but it takes a lot of time and attempts to get a medal, or some time "anywhere". But as you can see, there are 9 pages of comments, so others are having their difficulties as well. However, some strides have been made by Grandma Ruth to find some of the biggest problems, and an updated version does have its merits and gives more success in achieving goals. Just keep trying. That's the Tycoon way.

[Pat in the desert]

For me at least it was impossible to do as written. Too many of the financial tools were taken away, at least for my skill level. It's kind of like being a car to drive only to find out the tank is empty and 2 tires are missing. Also it has to have a fun element. As I was trying to lay track and build a station for one city a year - or less - it occurred to me that this was no fun. Maybe I'm taking the wrong approach to it. Or else this one is only for those that enjoy an extreme challenge.
By the way most of the pages of discussion were from when several of the RT3 folks helped to develop and finish the scenario. Not much from people that played it.
On my edited game, I now have enough money to build track and stations and route the trains. I now have Consolidations which make the hauling a bit faster and easier (by the way I moved the original start up 5 yrs to 1850 to get the better locos sooner). Now the challenge is to get the right cargoes to the right stations in enough quantities to meet the goals. Generating crystal in Memphis - no problem. Just have to haul it to one of the eastern terminal warehouses. Generating ammo and weapons looks like a challenge. even when enough resources are provided for these, the rate of production appears to be very low. And generating machinery, which is used to generate several of the other products. The machinery keeps getting shipped to other cities where I didn't want it to go. Also when machinery is delivered to places like the 2 warehouses West of Moline, the rate of production of the result products ( grain or corn ) is very slow, like only 4 units/year. I don't think it's going to make it.

[Orange46]

Until recently, there were very few really difficult RT3 scenarios. Thus, the goal of many of my scenarios is to make it unlikely that the player can get gold on the 1st and sometimes 2nd try. Usually, I warn about this in the introduction. It was developed when 1.06 first came out, and the scenario is probably easier than I would have made it, since if you read the earlier stuff in this thread, I could not finish the scenario due to the Vista/1.06 problem. Lately, I have wanted the player to stick with the game to the end, gold or not, so I have added some help (though usually not as much as players would like), but that was not the case with Crystal Cotton. As for difficulty in understanding what was going on, I thought that Grandma Ruth did a nice job of fixing that up, but keep in mind, this is a scenario designed to humble experts. Now, if Bel and Ray had been involved, I'm sure that it would have been renamed Crystal Clear, as these two players are good proof readers, err, game testers.

[Pat in the desert]

That confirms what I was starting to realize. This one is XD - eXtra Difficult. I'm just not up for this level of challenge in my game playing as I have enough challenges in my life. I have moved on to some other scenarios. One is the Russia scenario from the download section which is an updated version of a campaign map. It is pretty easy on one level but has a challenge on the troop haulage requirement. I may do comments on that when I get a chance.

[RayofSunshine]

BOY, there are been so many comments and suggestions on both "how to play the scenario" or what could make the scenario better, that I don't know what I could add.

WELL, except that this is a great scenario, and one of which I have never been able to get the GOLD. SO, I attempted it again. Lucky to get the Silver. Maybe.

I don't remember my attempt some time ago, and tried to at least get the BZ, by attempting to haul the 250 crystals requirement. With the "supply" and the "demand" being on the opposite ends of the map, the attempt is interesting.

As previously mentioned, the economy is not the greatest, and linked with the number of engine crashes, it is a challenge. And again mentioned, that there isn't any "bonds" available, it does make the challenge even more interesting.

The scenario has a good concept to the goals, and I believe that this was an early creation of EPH, who has amazed us with a constant flow of challenges from his talent and imagination.

Hats off, but can only be saluted as Hawk has not incorporated a "hats off" icon yet. LOL But this is as close as it comes.

[RayofSunshine]

A B-I-G OOPS. Sorry EPH, but I cannot give you the credit for the Crystal Cotton, although you rank with the tops of the user creators, and your scenarios show it.

B-U-T the credit goes to ORANGE46, and his talents, time, and imagination. Some times I type and think too fast. And I will also have to say the slow memory.

So, just a B-I-G thanks from all of us members for another great scenario.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Pat in the Desert,

Seeing that your post is "48" you are comparatively a fairly new member. BOY, I can remember some of the frustrations on trying to play some of these scenarios at that time of membership. SO, don't get discuraged. I just went to a different scenario, as like most members, we, well most of us, are playing for the enjoyment of the game I even play scenarios which don't have any medals or even goals.

Now Orange46 is one of a number of top creators. And he has some of the better scenarios with a challenge. AND we are fortunate to have benefit of his talent and immmagination. I remember that he had some "negative" opinions of RT3 at the beginning, and it sounded as if he was contemplating a finish to create. BUt, after some e-mails, he decided to reconsider, and to make scenarios with a little more difficulty that those which he had receated in RT2 Edition.

Actually, this doesn't have much to do with you, Pat in the Desert, and the playing of the Crystal Cotton scenario, but just a little background of its creator. And like I mentioned of my early frustrations with RT3, I just went onto a different scenario. Eventually, like the Crystal Cotton, and other more difficult scenarios, I have gone back in my later years, to attempt to win the challenges.

OH, you did not mention the level of which you were playing. Some of my frustrations were that of attempting to play some of the more difficult challenges in the Expert level. I learned to curb my ego by finding more enjoyment with the Medium. Once I played a very difficult one in the Easy level. Not much of a challenge, but a lot of fun.

Good luck in your endeavors. Sometmes we just have to "humble" ourselves.

[RayofSunshine]

Well, it isn't unusual for me to be at a stalemate with a scenario. this one has me at a standstill. First there is a starting "revenue" of $800. I was not able to locate any "starter" depot. Hence due to the lack of revenue, I initiated a MED depot in MEM. I laid track to a East and a West cotton field, with 2 Norris engines running to each of them. I did manage to buy a water/stand, and held back for revenue, so as not to deplete it by the purchase of a maintainence shed. BUT, it got to the point that the engines were running empty to the cotton fields, and that depleted the balance of the revenue.
There isn't any "bonds" or the ability to "sell" stock in this scenario, so after 2 years, there wasn't much sense to just watch the 2 engines running back and forth, and eventually, to be in debt.

the 2nd attempt was due to the possible error of the purchase of a "large" depot in Mem, and trying to lay track northward. The attempt shorted my revenue to place a 2nd depot, and then purchase a Norris.

Any one have an idea of strategy?

[RayofSunshine]

Still . Might have made a mistake from starting from MEM, as after 30 years, I managed the cnn to STL and CHI, but the Special Dividend is running my revenue down hill, to the point that I have been operating in the "red" without revenue to replace crashed engines. Have only managed to get 110 loads of "corn" to STL. With 18 engines, the majority are operating hauling low commodities for the requirements. Corn, Grain, Machinery, Iron. Being that the "total" goal is that of the Whse near CLE, it would be better to start in the CHI area, as although there are 100 loads of "crystal" in MEM, it is a long way to transport them.

And with a mention of transport hauls. Mathematically speaking, it takes a full train consists of 8, to haul 250 of any of the commodities. So that is 250 cotton for the crystal at MEM, which is 250 crystal to CLE. That in itself of 1 train load takes 2-3 years, one way, and 25 train loads. It might be more efficient to retire them on completion

250 ammo from STL, which requires 250 corn.
250 weapons from CHI, which requires 250 meat, which requires 250 livestock.
And don't forget, there is also a requirement of 250 produce to CHI as well.

This definitely is a challenge, and some real imagination to get all those requirements completed. Even in 50. But I am really enjoying this type of scenario. Keeps the mind working. LOL

[Orange46]

This is perhaps the hardest scenario I developed. In the original playtests in 1.06beta I had successful starts in Memphis because of all of the cargo coming out of the wharehouse and in St. Louis by shipping corn and grain into the city. But, when I tried to play the original recently (which was my first actual playing of this scenario in its final version in 1.06), I had no success with starts in the south. So, I moved north, running a line from Chicago to either Milwaukee or, if I could reach it with the paltry funds availabe, a cattle station somewhere to the west. These starts kind of worked, but meat was was a real problem. I just could not meet the meat goal without doing way too much micro managing. It wasn't fun. So, I made some changes, including expanding Chicago south of the river and putting in a second port there. In my first test, I ran a line up to Milwaukee and points north to get funds and it worked. I ran 2 more tests using a similar strategy, and they worked. So, I put out the 2nd edition.

Yes, money is scarce. Hey, that's what I usually did. You need profitable runs first, then you need to get the meat, grain and cotton shipments going. The weaponized meat brings in lots of cash, so after getting the northern line built, go east young man, that's where the money is. After connecting to the interconnect near Cleveland, build south. Don't worry about produce or corn until you have the cotton flowing to the east (via Chicago), then produce everything like crazy.

And of course, you know that you don't need to build a maintenance shed until you really need it, and you can even scrimp on the water tower, especially if you're not hauling much. Don't build a station in Chicago or St. Louis that overlaps both wharehouses, and preferably doesn't overlap either. Memphis hasn't been a problem in that regard, but there's always a first time.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Orange46,
Yes, this is along the line of your other created scenarios. I had a lot of fun trying to figure out how to get the medals in them as well.
Took your suggestions, of which I found to be better to start in CHI rather than MEM, and cnn to the CLE Whse. That being completed, I layed track to 1 of a liquidated AI city, that was inline to a Produce Grove. That also was in the vicinity of same AI liquididated city, for a "slaughter house", lay a couple tracks to Cattle Ranches. That would take car of the Produce and Weapons requirement for CHI, so I started to lay tracks to STL.

There were both Grain and Corn on the way to STL, so that would help in the requirements for the STL Corn and Ammunitions.

But then the hit the fan. I got nailed with the Special Dividend, and that with the decline of the economy just dragged everything down hill.

However, that was not the decline of progress. Most all of the "meat" arriving into CHI, was not being used in the requirement of the Weapons, but being hauled away to other cities. 250 commodiites are difficult enough, but to be 'scalped' of the potential commodity, is not helpful. Of 15 loads of meat, I only was able to acquire 2 weapons.
Very disappointing.

Keep us guessing Orange46, with your talent, imagination, and challenges.