SUOMI -Finland (rrt3 1.06 beta) ready for testing

[arop]

Atached to this topic you will find my latest map, called SUOMI -Finland. Any comments and suggestions are welcome

[Moggie]

My idea!

[arop]

Yes your idea, but my work with some assistance from Thietavu. You are welcome to add/change events, it's still a beta version

[Moggie]

I seem to be the one who throws a "Why not make...." into the air and then somebody grabs it and makes it a reality. I have nothing against that!

[thietavu]

Played the beta for about 5 hours last nite. ;) Some observations:

- The three routes were easily done. Also, making the profit targets seems to be doable.
- The 51% ownership is beyond my skills, since I've never cared about the financial system of RRT3 - only trains. :) But I shall lose the game because of that, since I have no idea how to do this. The more I buy my shares, the less ownership I seem to end up having. Weird... Anyway, I kind of doubt if this kind of a winning condition is necessary? Building those railroads was, after all, a political necessity in Finland - it had nothing to do with the stock market.
- Therefore, I'd rather consider something else instead. Maybe restrictions in rail available at any given time, for example.
- The resources seem a little uneven. There are basically only logs and iron available now, which makes developing industries kinda challenging...
- No grain and orchards? Southern and western coast are full of fields, apple orchards etc. in real Finland. This again restricts building new industries.
- Those problems above may very well be because I run this on TrainMaster, not RRT3 1.06... So, if I complain for nothing, sorry for that! :)
- I might consider making the Russian places "active" here, since they were and still are an important piece of Finland's trade.
- Maybe some more detail in the landscape? Now it's a bit like Finland is only a flat piece of land with many lakes and some trees here and there. Well, that *is* pretty much the truth, of course... :D But in real life, Finland has a bit of variety, too - different kinds of forests and fields, swamps, etc. :)
- Maybe also some more balancing of the towns? Now the size difference between real towns and tiny villages is very small and sometimes missing. I know it's a lot of work to google the sizes of them all, but it does add to the sense of realism. I myself spent countless hours with my China Ultimate and Scandinavia maps just googleing (etc.) around, trying to find out the real size and industries of each of the almost 200 towns in both scenarios. But it was kind of interesting, too. To find out where there were mines, fortresses, ports, etc... :)

But overall, once again... Great work! :)

I made some more of the small naming fixes.

[Hawk]

I doubt that this map will play right in TM due to all the industry differences, and if you edited it in TM, it may mess things up for the version it was created in.

Anders - I would suggest backing up your current map if you download the TM version in the post above. I don't know how the TM version will work in 1.06, and it could possibly mess up your version.

Maybe Ned or Blackhawk can jump in here with better info.

Nothing personal Tommi.

[Moggie]

From the Russian side at least St. Petersburg should be activated. Maybe Viborg as well...

[Moggie]

Hehe .

"RRT3 presents

A Thietavu production

An Arop map

From an original idea by Moggie

SUOMI-FINLAND"

[nedfumpkin]

I doubt that this map will play right in TM due to all the industry differences, and if you edited it in TM, it may mess things up for the version it was created in.

Anders - I would suggest backing up your current map if you download the TM version in the post above. I don't know how the TM version will work in 1.06, and it could possibly mess up your version.

Maybe Ned or Blackhawk can jump in here with better info.

Nothing personal Tommi.

I have to dash out so a quick reply here...Hawk is correct. TM and 1.06 maps are not compatible at all for play. In the editor you can usually load them unless there are things placed on the map.

[thietavu]

I doubt that this map will play right in TM due to all the industry differences, and if you edited it in TM, it may mess things up for the version it was created in.

Anders - I would suggest backing up your current map if you download the TM version in the post above. I don't know how the TM version will work in 1.06, and it could possibly mess up your version.

Maybe Ned or Blackhawk can jump in here with better info.

Nothing personal Tommi.

Yes, the fault is mine - since I only play TM these days, I didn't even think of the possible compatibility issues. :( I have made no TM-specific changes to the file (only changed some names), so hopefully the file isn't damaged. Can't check now since I only have TM installed. Sorry for the mistake!!

[Blackhawk]

- No grain and orchards? Southern and western coast are full of fields, apple orchards etc. in real Finland. This again restricts building new industries.

I don't know what this map actually looks like, but as the farms in RT3 and the agricultural communities in TM are different that alone could make it a different experience in TM vs RT3 1.06. I'm also not entirely sure how it works if a farm in RT3 would show up in TM as an agricultural community or just not show up at all. (whether it shows up or not probably has to do with the file names and what the game searches for and if it finds the file. I think in TM the files were renamed to include community in the name, so it's likely the majority of the farms won't show up, unless there is an equivalent TM version, like cotton.)

As for saving in TM and going back to make further changes in RT3, I'm not sure, but it may have an effect on the city recipes on what is likely to appear or not. Since some industries aren't available in TM, saving in TM and then loading the map in RT3 may have reset the likelihood of that industry appearing in a city/region to zero. I haven't actually checked this out so it may not actually change anything.

I would check the city/regions and see if the correct likelihood of industries appears or not. That is probably the main thing that may have gotten changed if saving in TM rather than 1.06 has an effect. Otherwise if just names were changed and no industries, events, or anything else TM-specific were added, I can't think of anything else that may have been affected.

[thietavu]

Well, not sure if anyone likes the idea, but... What about making this a TM map? TM is, after all, more advanced and (I think) more fun to play then the original RRT3.

[arop]

Definately not If you wish, you can make a TM version of your own!!! I appreciate the work Ned Fumpkin and others have done, with their TM, but I absolutely disagree, that nukes are more important than (copper) ore (in TM electric cords are made from steel). Casinos seems to be more important than cement (concrete ) plants, but I use some of Ned's nice new buildings and the vinyards in my private 1.06 version. Nope! there will be no TM maps from my hands in the near future. If I should make this map a TM, I could start setting all the industry in towns and countryside all over again, and get a result not sarisfactory for myself. Now I'll get this 1.06 job done, no matter who to credit, before my vacation to England-Wales in the beginning of June. There will be an improved version very soon, think I'll A) remove all stock market (and the 51% win condition, while VR, the Finnish State Railways was 100% state owned in these days). B) During the Civil War, economy will lay in shambles and a couple of years after, and C) Wall Street 1929 will have a serious impact too in Finland, just trying to make it somewhat more difficault to win the game by industrial profit. D) Maybe I'll implant a limited trackbuilding qoute of 300-500 sections of track per year. E) Concerning the sice of the towns and cities, I have found all the necessary information on the Internet: A city (like Tampere) with 213.000 inhabitants is set to 213% in the editor, a village with less than 2000 inhabitants 12%, some small junction towns to 20-30%. F) St. Petersburg and another little russian town, just across the border, supplying Finland with Iron ore are active. It would look strange if the finnish state, after 1918, was running railways deep into Russia. Due to the break of track there will be no access to Sweden. Twice I have been in Haparanda, I've never seen rail traffic with ores from Sweden. I rather think, that ore is shipped on barges from Luleaa (Sweden). G) Agriculture in this map is concentrated along the coast an around small inland villages served by rail. (due to the climate, grain being grown exclusively in the southern coastal part of the country). Feeding stuff, like corn, has to be imported

[Hawk]

Yes, the fault is mine - since I only play TM these days, I didn't even think of the possible compatibility issues. :( I have made no TM-specific changes to the file (only changed some names), so hopefully the file isn't damaged. Can't check now since I only have TM installed. Sorry for the mistake!!

Have you considered multiple installs of RT3, since TM is so different, you are limiting yourself to only maps made for TM. You can't play all the other maps.
Here's a thread discussing the matter. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2363

[arop]

Attached to this answer you have the latest version (SUOMI -Finland, beta 2 for RRT3 v.1.06). By now this map is nearing its completion and from now on I only expect some minor adjustments after some testing. What's new: A) The win condition to have at least 51% of the stocks has been removed, while the stock market is disabled (reason: VR = Finnish State Railways=no stocks). B) Track building has now been limited to 500 sections per year. C) The Finnish Civil War has a negetive impact on all production for 2 years. D) Wall Street 1929 will have a, 10 month delayed, but a very negative impact on factory production for 5 years. D) Some other (major international) events are added) Any comments and suggestions are still welcome

[thietavu]

Yes, the fault is mine - since I only play TM these days, I didn't even think of the possible compatibility issues. :( I have made no TM-specific changes to the file (only changed some names), so hopefully the file isn't damaged. Can't check now since I only have TM installed. Sorry for the mistake!!

Have you considered multiple installs of RT3, since TM is so different, you are limiting yourself to only maps made for TM. You can't play all the other maps.
Here's a thread discussing the matter. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2363

I had multiple installs before I had to re-install Windows some months ago. For some reason, my TM continued to work without any re-installation of RRT3 (it's in a separate folder), but I lost my RRT3 then - and I've been too lazy (so far) to re-install it. All my time has gone to testing and improving my own TM maps China and Scandinavia. But you're right. Might be the time to get back to mainstream RRT3 again. Then I also might not ruin other people's maps...

[arop]

I think you should. It will take very very long, if ever, until TM can offer as many new maps as RRT3 1.06

[Moggie]

I have an 1.05 installation, an 1.06 installation and Trainmaster.

[Hawk]

I have an 1.05 installation, an 1.06 installation and Trainmaster.

Same here, and I also have a default unpatched install. Don't ask me why, but I do.

[thietavu]

I now have RRT3 1.06 installed again... Tested the new beta. Everything seems to work fine now (small typos there still, but easy to fix) - EXCEPT for one gamekiller bug... The yearly track building limit of 500 pieces was set as "one time only" event, which makes it impossible to build more than 1000 pieces of track. I tried to fix that bug myself, but my RRT3 crashed every time I tried to save the file. I hope someone else has more luck with that.