Reconstruction

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.06.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

I just finished two games on the latest map starting in North Carolina. I think that North Carolina might be the hardest place to start at the moment if you don't jump borders (I did both times). Some seeds would make for a very slow game in the early stages. In my opinion Mississippi is probably the easiest start. If you start there you can make a ton of money without crossing borders. First with industry and then rail it may even be possible to save the 6M or so you need for the required territory access and buy the rights all at once before '73. This force will make the game quick and after making the connections a player could end up waiting a couple of years for the win requirements to come up in '80.

On one play (North Carolina) I tried to play a sharp game, buying into another state and going heavy with early industry. I managed to save enough to force the territory rights when they were 1M each excluding Virginia. Then I worked on making the connections. I had connected most of the map by '80 and chose the tourist option again. Then I had to save up almost 10M for access to Virginia. I made the connection, hauled the passengers, and got the win right at the end of '82. My goal was to try to come as close to a situation of having to wait as I was able. I was unable as I always had plenty to do.

On the next play (North Carolina) I decided to play a similar strategy but bought the territory access rights one at a time for full price. The results are pretty much the same so "forcing" the rights doesn't seem to give much advantage unless you start in Mississippi. I had made all the connections around '83 and would have had a win except I chose the Oil challenge. Because of this I had to wait till '90 for Diesel and the Oil Refinery to appear on the map. Even after they appeared it takes a couple more years for Diesel to reach full price. In '92 the upgraded Refinery only produced 2.7 loads in a year. This put the win during '93. In those 10 years I had connected to every territory and all the towns that the AI weren't in, and some of the towns they were. The intense growth in those years along with expansion shot the company above 15M profit per year. These were plays where I played for the win according to the current game goals, instead of trying to poke around testing things.

I used the new warehouse that converts Ingots to 2 Machinery and it works well except that when Coal is present it wont convert Ingots as the Coal to 2 Concrete chain is more profitable. Concrete is fairly easy to make out of Ceramic (from Rock) so maybe this could be fixed by making the conversion of Coal only produce one Concrete. I know Crystals are sort of a useless cargo at present, but you could make them into Goods as a type of Glassware or just have a demand for them at the ports representing export of somewhat precious stones to exotic places where they would make more sense. Would look better than have them sitting there doing nothing.

I don't mind another industry goal or a new haulage goal, but in my opinion a general requirement at the end may kill some of the current re-play value. Which, I agree, is very good. This is a fun map to test. !*th_up*! I don't know if you want to do that much more work on the map, but I could see specific extra challenges based on your starting territory as a possibility to add another challenge without killing the re-play value. The easier start territories could have slightly more difficult challenges in the end. Maybe announce it in '80 just after the current win-route choice requirement. It could even be further determined by the difficulty option the player choose to play with (for example: Expert). Just an idea, do with it what you will.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

RulerofRails wrote:
I used the new warehouse that converts Ingots to 2 Machinery and it works well except that when Coal is present it wont convert Ingots as the Coal to 2 Concrete chain is more profitable. Concrete is fairly easy to make out of Ceramic (from Rock) so maybe this could be fixed by making the conversion of Coal only produce one Concrete. I know Crystals are sort of a useless cargo at present, but you could make them into Goods as a type of Glassware or just have a demand for them at the ports representing export of somewhat precious stones to exotic places where they would make more sense. Would look better than have them sitting there doing nothing.
Wow you got 2 games in before I even finished my last one on the last version of the map! ^**lylgh Anyway, to further comment on this part of what you wrote. Yes, some use for crystals may be nice rather than them piling up. Alternatively, you could always use an event to -100 or -200% crystal production so no crystals are produced at all.
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RulerofRails
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Thought I should add that I was also reminded while playing that the current 0.1 per year demand for Machinery of all Factories in 1.06 (It isn't visible in the Industry information window but you can tell from the demand map) is easy to overwhelm. The in-progress re-do of the 1.06 cargoes includes an added demand at all the mines and at the logging camp that will increase their production when they are supplied with Machinery. This will stabilize the price of Machinery and make it much more useful to make. I am guessing this over-supply problem is the reason you made the conversion 1 Ingot -> 2 Machinery?
Blackhawk wrote:Wow you got 2 games in before I even finished my last one on the last version of the map! ^**lylgh
I am having too much fun with it. ::!**!
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EPH
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

The warehouse converting 2-for-1 is probably just an accident. Should that be changed to a straight 1-for-1 conversion or left alone?

Glad to hear you folks like this scenario. As I've said before I think there are a lot of ways to go at this one...

Still waiting for a verdict on whether it is too easy, about right or still too hard. (No rush though - play it as much as you like before you decide). I think the single change with the most impact was taking out all of the 'decrease credit rating' effects; those made it impossible to borrow. Now you can borrow (and build), just at high interest rates.

I think it will probably be best to just reduce crystal production to 0 and let it go. I'm not aware of any factory-sized glass production in the South and not sure I've ever seen freight-car loads of materials hauled around for that purpose.

Any other thoughts? Anyone?
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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RulerofRails
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

I don't think the 1 Ignots -> 2 Machinery is a problem. I would leave it and change the first conversion to 1 Coal -> 1 Concrete. This should make the warehouse convert the Ignots in preference to Coal when both are present as is likely in Alabama where I have seen it appear most often. I believe when a warehouse has two conversions available it picks the one that would make it more money.

My preference is always for maps that are difficult on Expert. I would somehow make it impossible or at least much less desirable to jump out of the small states from the word go. Using access rights or money available, but not by adding cities or re-doing seeding (I like the seeding and cities on the current version). This and the harder credit from the original would be my pick. That would make some of the starting locations quite a challenge and give a lot of re-play instead of the current version where buying into Mississippi to place industry is a sure route to a quick win. I believe that the fast growth that happens in the middle of the game will even things out enough that even slow starts should be playable and winnable. If you do this I wouldn't make any new goals as the player should stay occupied much closer to the end of the given time. !#2bits#!

Yep, no Crystal production works best. Good idea.
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Blackhawk
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Alright I finally finished my first run through of this scenario, except I was using the previous beta (the final beta that used the machine shop).

I started in Missouri, bought into Tennessee and Arkansas and built a Textile Mill in Memphis and I think a bought a cotton farm or two. I focused on buying up industry early on, especially the first 5 years when there was the discount. I was able to finish in 1894-1895. I was just waiting on some diesel to reach Paducah. I could have gotten it there a couple years earlier if I had built the refinery sooner, but I waited a few years thinking maybe one will pop up and I won't have to spend 2,700k to built it myself.

One thing you may want to do is give the player a couple months to decide on whether to go with the oil, steel, or tourist requirement. I got the initial message and though okay, I'll have some time to check out and see where the oil wells or the steel mills/iron/coal would be, only to have to decide right away. Since my railroad was based more in Arkansas and Mississippi I took the oil since that seemed the closest.
-There is also a typo in the initial briefing (fortune)

I took a quick look at your latest revised version. It may be a little more difficult starting in the Missouri area without the warehouse in Paducah that was in the prior version. In my opinion the a 1:1 conversion would be better for both the coal > concrete and ingots > machinery. I'm not sure there is a strong demand for all that excess machinery, and more importantly, that might create a warehouse that is far too profitable considering machinery is one of the most expensive/valuable cargo in the game. Although I haven't played this version of the map unlike RoR.
Also you can make the warehouse buildable by the player if you want. I haven't played the scenario yet so maybe it is buildable but I didn't see it on the list right at the start. Ex. If you want just the ingot > machinery conversion you could call the warehouse ":Foundry" and then go into the Industry list in the editor and check the box next to the industry now called foundry. Then it should become buildable by the player in the game. There are still several warehouse slots free so you could always create 2 new industries and separate the coal > concrete and ingot > machinery conversions and alleviate the problem RoR mentioned of coal converting before ingots. [In my play through of the old version the furnaces were actually better at converting ore than rock even though there wasn't much demand for ingots which was a little odd.]

The following link is a quick mentions the various ways you can name a warehouse in 1.06. viewtopic.php?f=66&t=957&p=37200&hilit= ... ing#p37200

Edit:
Still waiting for a verdict on whether it is too easy, about right or still too hard. (No rush though - play it as much as you like before you decide). I think the single change with the most impact was taking out all of the 'decrease credit rating' effects; those made it impossible to borrow. Now you can borrow (and build), just at high interest rates.
Early on I didn't take any loans out, but after a few years the interest rate went down to 8-9% and I took out a bond or two. Eventually the interest rate went down to 5-6% so I took out several bonds and had a few up to 8-9% again after there was an event that raised the interest rate/downgraded my credit. But a few years later the interest rate went down to 5% again and I maxed out my loans at 5%.

My style of play largely relies on industrial profits, so the 1million in industry profits seemed too easy to accomplish, even being a silver medal requirement. I think I had that completed within the first 5 of the scenario after I had a textile mill and lumber mill and a cotton farm or two. During the duration of the scenario with all the cotton farms and the occasional grain/rice farm they were easy ways to make money, especially if you bought them when they were first spawned. Most were giving ~8-10% return, if I bought it after it had been around a few years, or even better if I bought it shortly after being spawned, so they were a pretty easy investment.
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Hawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

It just dawned on me that this thread was in the wrong forum, so I moved it.
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EPH
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Thank you Hawk!

Newest version is attached to the first post of this thread. I have incorporated requested changes including:

1) deleted machine shop for warehouse that converts ingots to machinery, crystals to ceramics and coal to concrete - in small amounts
2) tweaked seeding to be lower for Mississippi and higher for Georgia
3) adjusted access costs: $1 mil at start and $5 mil for highest level (for standard territory)
4) fixed typo (thank you! Typos REALLY bug me).
5) adjusted 'challenge' so it is announced at the start of the month and the choice comes at the end of the month

Some questions to answer:

1) I have not played this on hard or expert. Is it winnable?
2) I have noticed that starting location pretty much determines the challenge you pick: if you start in the west, oil; center, steel; east passengers. Is this a good thing?
3) On reaching gold, the medal video fires before the newspapers - how to fix this?
4) I usually 'win' in a range from 1888-1993. Should the challenge be pushed back to, say, 1885 to give more late-game playing time? Or would it be interesting to have an 'intermediate challenge' based on starting location - (sounds good but I have no idea what those would be).
5) Is this one 'done'?
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Hawk
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EPH wrote: 3) On reaching gold, the medal video fires before the newspapers - how to fix this?
I take it the idea I suggested in an email didn't work?
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EPH
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I've tried moving the events around - didn't work. The Gold event has to fire at any time the conditions are met... I originally set it to fire at the end of the month. The 'Win' events for the challenges also fire at the end of the month. The challenge 'win' is usually the last thing the player needs to get for Gold, but the Gold plaque and video always fires before the newspapers for the challenge 'Win'. I tried moving the Gold-Silver-Bronze-Lose events to the bottom of the chain but that did not change the apparent firing order - Gold video still plays before final newspapers show.

I tried setting an event for the end of the month to evaluate a Gold win and reset a variable, then having another event at the start of the month to actually fire the Gold win. Result? Video still fired before any of the newspapers... So an event set to fire at the START of a month, according to a variable set at the END of a month, still fires before other events set for the END of the month. !facepalm! !hairpull!

All I can think to try now is to poll for a Gold win, set a variable to the year-month and then only fire the Gold win if that variable + 1 matches the current year-month. No idea if this is possible or workable. **!!!**

Anyone have any thoughts?
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Blackhawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

By the newspaper events, do you mean the ones that say you successfully hauled oil/passengers/steel?
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EPH
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Yes... the order that SHOULD happen is any newspapers for industrial profit, company profit, steel win, tourist win or oil win should fire and then the Gold medal newspaper should fire.

I fixed it... here's how.

There is now a Gold evaluation event (start of the month) that decides if Gold conditions are met. If so, it sets Game Variable 3 = to Game Year Month (YYYYMM).
Any newspapers (set to end of month) fire.
Gold medal victory event (set to start of month) fires IF Game Year Month is > GV3.

Tested this on a save-game that was caught just before gold medal win, and all fired correctly.


That degree in computer science does sometimes come in handy. The trick is in figuring out how to work with what the game gives you.
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Blackhawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

Did you change the victory events to then do its final check in January 1902 now instead of December 1901?

Also I noticed a typo in one of the steel events in Birmingham having the I and the R reversed.
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EPH
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The event that checks for a Gold win has as a condition that Game Month Year must be <= 190012. Silver, Bronze and Lose all have condition of = 190101.

I've played out two runs on Hard and got Gold on both (event fires properly! !**yaaa ). I looked through the steel events and found the 'Brimingham'. Thanks to you that is fixed now.

I also bumped up the starting economy for Kentucky-North Carolina-Virginia.

In my last game I started with a paper mill in Bowling Green and a meat packing plant in Somerset, later built a brewery in Paducah. Parlayed that into access to Illinois and a railroad from Cairo to Paducah - consistently profitable. Extended railroad from Paducah to Bowling Green and Somerset.

Second stage was taking out massive loans (total debt now $9 million, from 6% to 12% interest) to buy access to Tennessee and Mississippi with railroad to Jackson TN and Memphis. I was then able to extend (slowly) to Jackson MS and Gulfport. I thought at this point the game was probably lost since it was 1885 but I kept going; picked 'Oil' challenge in 1885 and started shipping oil from Gulfport and then New Orleans when that route was laid.

Bought access to Louisiana and set up a 'ring' route from Jackson-Gulfport-New Orleans-Baton Rouge-Jackson. Extended railroad from Bowling Green to Nashville, then waited to pile up enough money to run from Nashville to Chattanooga. I also made major efforts to pay down loans...

Last stage was buying access to Georgia. With money coming in I was able to build Chattanooga-Atlanta-Savannah and buy an oil refinery for Baton Rouge. The Pullman Strike event kicked in - very nasty. Was almost paralyzed but finally able to buy access to Florida. In October of 1896 I completed track from Savannah-Jacksonville-Ocala-Tampa for the 5th connection; November 1 the gold medal fired. By that time I had all loans paid off and was making easily more than $5 mil per year in profits.
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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Blackhawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

I meant to say earlier but forgot it in my post. I haven't played this newest version yet, but RoR has been able to get gold on expert and I got gold on the previous version on expert. One way to possibly make it more difficult to win would be for a player to have to accomplish 2 of the challenges. I'm not sure of the feasibility of this but it's just an idea. If it is difficult to accomplish, it could always become a requirement for only those playing on expert difficulty.
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EPH
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Yeah, it needs something to fill in the last 5-8 years of the game. Requiring 2 challenges could mean having to buy your way through just about every territory in the game unless you only took steel and tourists. There's a lot of money in the end game, but maybe not enough for that. As I've said before, I think your choice of starting location plays a big part in the challenge you take, so tackling a second one just might not work.

Inspiration doesn't always come when you need it but I'll keep thinking on it. Maybe it is time to dial down the economic growth of the first 10-20 years a bit.

Let me know if you have any ideas. And thank you for your help!
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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RulerofRails
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I am just stopping by, no time to play right now. Are you definitely going to dial back the economic growth? If so, will wait to test out difficulty. The previous version was definitely winnable on Expert as I showed from some of my runs.

The Passenger challenge is really quite easy to accomplish and I have often gotten it the same year I finished making the connections. I always got it legitimately without any lame bate and switch tricks. The Steel goal is slightly harder as it takes a little while to get mill up to speed and maybe a year or two to make the delivery (depends on the network). The Oil is the hardest as not only do you need to haul across about half the map vertically, but then you need to wait for the Oil Refinery to appear to make some Diesel to haul.

Every time, bar one, I have played the map I could have easily completed the Passenger and Steel challenges. The Oil one would have set me back more as an addition. As a side note, Cairo is able to be connected for a connections count without buying access to Illinois. Don't know if this is a problem as I figured that people that build in that corner of the map would go for the Oil challenge. Will play it again when I have time. Am excited to try out some of the harder options such as Virginia without crossing borders early.
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Hawk
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

EPH wrote:Maybe it is time to dial down the economic growth of the first 10-20 years a bit.
Dial down the economics more? This map already has a boring first 10 years. Don't make it more boring. :mrgreen: If anything dial down the economics towards the end of the scenario, or is this map only intended for the expert players out there.
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Re: Reconstruction Unread post

I just started the latest (as of Friday) version this morning. Started in LA 'cause there was Livestock pouring into New Orleans (built a Meat Processor) and then built a Distillery to process the Produce/Sugar that were there or migrating in that direction. Also bought a newly-placed Lumber Mill to the west that was just starting to turn a profit. Only a couple of years into it, no rails yet, but will probably do that next to connect NO to Baton Rouge, and then west to the Lumber Mill. Playing on Expert, and I'll let you know how I'm progressing.
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EPH
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RulerofRails - not definitely going to dial back the economy and certainly not in the beginning. Might lower the growth in the first 10 years from 12% to 10% and trim the growth in the second 10 years from 5% to 3 or 4%. The map is abundantly full of resources in the late game. I'm more concerned with finding something for the player to do that will stretch out the game another 5 years or so... this one is pretty winnable by 1890-3 and I'd like it to run a little longer.

Oddly enough I've found the steel to be very easy, oil easy and passengers hard... getting folks to leave the Northeast is easy (heh) but getting 8 passengers a year into Palm Beach takes work.

Never tried going into Cairo without buying Illinois - that I will definitely have to fix.

Hawk - I wasn't clear, and I apologize. What I had in mind was a small reduction in growth of 1 or 2 percent, particularly in the second decade (see my response to Ruler above). I've been increasing the density rates at start so the high growth rates lead to a very dense map later. If you guys think that's a mistake I won't.

Wolverine@MSU - Hi Wolverine! Good to hear from you. Sounds like a classic opening to me so you should be in good shape. Don't be afraid to take on a lot of debt as long as you spend it on rails and industry that will make a profit. Watch out for cotton fields - a textile mill is always in order. :-)


I'm most interested in finding something to keep the player occupied for a little longer in the late game. It doesn't bother me if the map is rich in the late game except that it may make the scenario end too soon. Oh, and if anyone has suggestions for additional challenges let me know.


*Note: I'm working on a version with a few small changes:
1) Increased starting density; reduced growth in second decade
2) Added a 4th challenge: connect 12 territories (Cairo, Birmingham, Palm Beach and *To East Coast probably count as territories, as does each state)
3) Put a 'ring' of Illinois around Cairo
4) Bumped up the steel requirements to 50 shipped and 25 delivered; oil requirements to 50 oil and 10 diesel

Let me know what you think of this in principle... I'll be out of town (Philadelphia and New Jersey) during the week so no permanent changes until 4/17 at the earliest.
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." - James Branch Cabell
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