Rail Baron East

[Orange46]

I always run my trains with up to 8 cars, unless going thru mountains, but in this map the hills aren't too bad and my Altoona line trains had 6 cars and ran fine. I did spend time finding a good route to keep the grades down, however.

Engine maintenance gets very high very fast in RT3 and it pays to replace engines after 10-20 years in scenarios that last 40 years or more. In this scenario, however, I cut maintenance in half so that you don't have to replace the engines. My normal rule for replacing an engine is to subtract the annual maintenance cost when new from the current maintenance cost, then multiply that by the age of the engine or if less, the number of years left in the scenario. If that number is a lot greater than the cost of the engine, I replace it. So, if the engine cost $40k, and its last full year maintenance was $20k and its new maint cost was $9k, I should theoretically replace it if it was 6 years old - 11x6=66. The reason is that you will spend at least $66k extra in maintenance over the next 6 years on this engine, and you can buy a new one for only $40k. I did ignore interst, so in reality I probably would wait until 10 years to replace this engine, and probably even longer because it seems sacriligous to get rid of an engine before its 20 years old.

A more precise formula would be (maint current - maint new) x (years old or years to go) > (enginecostnew + (enginecostnew x interest) x years). If interest was 10%, then we get:

(20 - 9 ) x years > (40 + (40 x .1) x years)
11 x years > (40 +4 x years)
(11-4) x years > 40
7 x years > 40, or about 6 years!
You save at least $11k a year and pay only $4k in interest, for a net of $7k x 6 = $42k and that is greater than a new engine costs.

So, what if you can't buy that engine, and the engine you can (or want) to buy costs $120,000. I just ignore the cost of the actual replacement engine because it is probably worth the extra cost. In most situations, you would rather buy a Consolidation over a Baldwin because of the extra speed and hauling capacity.

So the final formula is ((last full year maint - new full year maint + (original engine cost x interest) x years of expected use > original engine cost

Aren't you sorry you asked

[belbincolne]

Yes - cos its 7pm and am allowed to drink from 6pm and dinner (me cooking for family) is 8 and I dont know if I can get to that point sober and ..... I'll re-red this tomorow

[RayofSunshine]

Yup, it seems that everyone has their own way of operating the game. But suggestions and hints from other players are tried, so as to improve their game plan.

First off, starting from the Planet engine, I start with 3 consist and will run them in % of their maintainence cost. So due to length of haul, they are replaced accordingly. 5-8

The rest of the newer engines coming on line, I continue to increase the consists as well as their longevity of maintainence of 10-12 years. I like the older engines.

During my consist of 2min which can decrease to 0, depending on the size of the town, to a max5. Again, I will max them at 8, depending on terrain, and the number of stars.

Newer engines e.g. Pacific and "Wheelers" I will run for 20, and gettng into the Northern +, I don't like to run them any longer that 25. Their maintainence just get too expensive.

By this time we then get into the diesel and then the electric. These also are kept to the 25 year limit. Well at least the diesel, as a different configuration has to be used for the electric, as some are very low.

Right now I have finished the PRR system in 1952. With only 7 systems completed, I am afraid that it will be into the 22nd Century before I get all of them completed. LOL

Well, that is if I am able to complete that "strip" into Canada. However, I don't see any city in Canada on the map. Oh, and if Armageddon comes in 2012 I won't have to be concerned about getting the scenario completed. LOL

[RayofSunshine]

From the threads of other players, it just depends on the level of the economy when you boot up the "new scenario" . Bel had a great economy with the C&O, and I am in a struggle. The L&N was a push over. Hardly any Recessions, but operated with good economy level in the Normal.

That brings me to Orange46 comment, to connect to any city, but a requirement to build your own company depot for the credit. Now the question. As a player may have a lousy economy, basically operating with maybe 1 to 1 1/2 stars, but can connect with a close by city of 4-5 stars, could that player take an advantage and make that cnn?. NOW that isn't the way you have created it to be played, so, wouldn't have be in line of that being a """cheat"""?.

Next question. You, Orange46, mentioned something similar, but had a problem trying to fit a depot in a later Rwy. Now etically, to conform to the "rules of the road", that after a player has gotten an adequate amount of revenue from cnn to the 4-5 star city, that he just bulldoze the track and depot, to make room for any future required rwy?

I would rather play a scenario of which the user created program requirements, but I thought that my idea would be in conformity of a Tycoon thinking.

Any way, being that these depots are so close together, and without trying to ZOOM every time to get a better enhancement, I just rename the depots with the Rwy. Just a thought.

Ran into a situation in the L&N which I had not notice in previous rwy agenda, was that in the notification of a new engine being available that the price is not the same as that to which you may want to purchase later. e.g. The FP45 was shown prices $210, but when I tried to purchase it, the price was $420.

And Bel, I don't believe I will have a problem with the C&O to cnn DET to BUF via that Canadian strip. Although it does not appear in the "pink or green" avaialbe territory map or the map to "cnn the dots" for the routing, it does appear on the regular map of which to lay track. I was not fussy in the "test" trial, and the cnn took a goodly amount of bridges to a sum of $8.0K, but will pay more attention with the actual laying of track for the connection. As long as there isn't a city on that strip, there shouldn't be a problem. Well at least since I can use a large station for BUF, and DET should not be a problem.

Back to the "drawing board".

[RayofSunshine]

Have a problem Orange46, but finished the C&O by year 2000. But this is a question which others may not have considered. Or they do "math" different then me.

Finishing C&O completes 8 agendas for 1 medal point. To get 2 medal points a player has to obtain 14 agendas. However there are only 12 railroads. Also, to get the GOLD a player has to have 3 medal points. Well, I believe that is the way you have in the ledger.

Is there some hidden agendas which will surprise us in order to advance to GOLD?

[RayofSunshine]

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. If I would just read the ledger, and do a little figuring Orange46.. I did have to do a little math. C&O is only the 7th rwy, but received 2 rwy points once completed. Hence the 14 required for Silver, getting 2 medal points. That's a grand total of 3. And I didn't use a calculator either. But my fingers came in handy. LOL

Which brings me to any item. Why is B&O the only rwy which continues to issue stock? And like Belbinoe mentions, or the equivalent thereof, these previous rwys look like a bunch of ant farms

[belbincolne]

Children (and g/children) now gone so can collapse and re-read Rays posts.

The top strip - I needed no bridges and cost was negligible.
5 * cities - I would connect if sensible BUT its going to cause problems later on when you need to connect to it for another RR and its already pretty full. I've only done it once. When you've finished with it though, as you say, you could demolish it before moving on to next RR.
Engine cost - there's actually a lot of scenarios where trains are listed at half price - I've just got used to it

Now to give it another play

[Orange46]

In the initial instructions, I said that you could build the railways however you wanted to, as long as you connect to the required cities with company stations. I have only tested it by building as I've stated before, according to the instructions , and by connecting to cities that the track ran thru anyway. If you need money, it is probably better to connect to that 5*, rather than go to Iowa. But, as to bulldozing track and stations, that's using the any strategy to win philosophy and is akin to running cargoes back and forth at a loss to meet goals, or going into the editor to win the game - I can win any scenario without ever hitting the start button or building more than 1 piece of track by the last method. The goal of this scenario is to have fun, but the secondary goal is to build functioning railroads that are fun to watch. But, in the end - it's your game to play as you see fit. Sometimes, when presented with tasks that I don't feel like doing, I've been known to ignore scenario goals or regift cargo. In this scenario, I included lots of ways for players who are in trouble to get cash so that they don't have to cheat or start over. If you go in the red by $500,000, you get a lift, and you can always go to Iowa. If you build all 14 RR's (ok, 12, but you get credit for 2 at the start - the B&M and NYNH&H that are in New England but can't be built because only their NY destinations are on this map - Albany and NYC respectively), who needs a medal - you just completed a mini campaign by building 12 working railroads!

[RayofSunshine]

Hey Orange46, I am in agreement with you on playing the scenario as it is programmed by the user creator. I will cheat in using a "test" if necessary to see if my idea of operation is either feasible, or possible. Then I can either discard the idea or test, and go back to the regualr playing.

The reason I asked about ""using a city"" for revenue, and then to bulldoz it later, so as to make room for a later rwy, was just a comment of thought as to be basically ethical with your idea of your creation. Actually I found that instead to laying track/depot in a non requirement city, that a "required" city with just as many stars was just a distance up the track. The required city was not mentioned until later in your "routing", but have read your previous explanation, being similar to your last post, I just connected to the required city, and that solved the revenue problem. And I like your way of thinking.

And Bel, the test rail which I ran on the Canadian strip between DET and BUF, was just that. A test. So I wasn't particular about the cost at that time, I just wanted to make sure that it could be done. Hence in reality of the game, instead of the $8.0+K with all the bridges, there wasn't any bridges and at a cost of $2.0K, or there abouts.

Well Orange46, there must be a number of players almost finishing this scenario, so what and when will you have the next one either started or in the mixer?

[Orange46]

I hope to be done with creation for a while. There are too many scenarios out there that I haven't played and I only do my own when I get a bug you know where to do something that no one else has done. I just finished a scenario that you and Bel already did, and am now trying one that is a year old and totally unlike those that I design - LA&La.

[RayofSunshine]

Orange46 I can well understand your decision and opinion. I person does need a rest or some relaxation. We thank you for your time, effort, talent, and imagination.

And yes there are a few new scenarios. A number of them I have on hold, as I was some what impressed with Bridging the Miss. and wanted to see how the Red Baron compared in its creation.

Although not new, there are a couple,or a few, scenarios which I had enjoyed playing. One has to do with the Chicago area, another that of a Seattle Yard, and another BOS They are unlike the Metro versions.

But Bel and I are not finished with the Red Baron. I was waiting for the GOLD, only to find that I have to get all those "credit buried" rwys back in the red. Sort of threw us a curve, but a real different concept of any previous creation.

You know, you could make a sequal of the Bridging the Miss, with the same extension. Just a thought, but good luck with the La&La.

[Orange46]

Gold is easier than you think. It's only 1 RR, unless you went to Iowa. You get a game victory point for each fixed RR. I did not think that most would be happy with fixing railroads, so it's optional to fix more than one, or the number you need to get to 3 points.

[RayofSunshine]

The extension may be optional, Orange46, but I just thought I would play it to the end, not only to see what the different rwys had done since they took over, and what might be at the end of the extension. Maybe a Platium Medal or a Diamond Ring or Stickpin. LOL. Anyway, it is something of a twist. My problem is that now the graphics are becoming jerky, as the memory must be get plugged up with 50.5K+ and I only have completed 3 of the extension rwys.

But I can see the reason for the multiply loans/bonds which are encountered during their longevity. 1st would be their incorporating "dbl track", and then at some point they are purchasing the most expensive diesel engine, and just too many for a smooth operation, by basicallly onperating a singe engine between only 2 stations. Hence, the 8 consist trains are "bumper to bumper" , and also piled up on top of one another between each set of depots. A real mess. One time I counted 36 engines in a pile and at least 6 coming from both directions.

It is a wonder that they are able to exist, as competitive rwys at the same depots are not much less in their totals.

Off to see what kind of a deal I can make once all the rwys have gotten out of debt. LOL

[RayofSunshine]

Well I can see the reason for my system to get sluggish. Practially all the rwys had invested into the DD 080 X and hauling an 8 max haul. And although I had a number of the rwys operating on 7-12 engines and believe the max of a couple less than 20, they were now operating with a min of 12 but max to 30-36. The systems I created had engines servicing 3-4 cities. Now the operations had engines mainly operting between 2 cities. Then, at least 8 of the rwys were near max with their bonds, and even after I took all of them out of debt for the medal points, they were still issuing bonds, even though I left them with a goodly "cash", and added water/sand/maintenence to eliminate that problem only to a few of them. In my opinion, althoough they were making a profit, their systems were so "ant like" congestion, that they were looseing their haul revenue, just trying to get out of the "waiting to get a clear track", both after getting a consist, as well as trying to get to the their destinations. But that is their problem. But I do see that there is an advantage of using the "funding via IOWA", rather than "issuing bonds", but now it is hind sight.

Thanks agian Orange46, for the creation. I hope that all will enjoy it as much as me.

[belbincolne]

Not been able to play for ages and was stuck real bad on N & W - took a bond at only 8% but that was enough to keep me in the red for years and eventually (from 1945) in around 70 I got profitable and completed in 74 thank goodness. Thought at one time I'd have to give up on Gold and take some cash. Had a message a couple of times saying why not declare Bankruptcy to releave cash crunch - meant to save and try and then forgot - presumably if I had I'd have lost immediately?

Anyway in 74 I could finally move on to Seaboard. Was in deep reccession so at least rails were cheap and quite rapidly the economy went to boom and got 5 bonds at 5/6% and was well away so by 80 I'd made the connections and in 82 (connected 2 extra towns for more trains) I got carryings target.

On to the next one. Proved incredibly easy again. Connected them all in 88 and did haulings in 89 so now I've just got started on the last one for Silver. Looks hard but its what comes after that worries me - those AIs are appalling its not just that most are running in the red with umpteen bonds but they've also issued lots of stock (they didn't ask me if they could and I held 100% of every one of them - that must be against the law????) so now I'm a minority holder in them all.

Only one to go???????

[Orange46]

Not only is it against the law for them to issue stock without asking you, it is a violation of the scenario conditions. Can you issue stock for your current RR? No, and neither should they, but the AI cheats big time. This problem almost killed the scenario, but much to your regret, it didn't. Hang in there, Ray did.

[belbincolne]

Puzzled cos I connected final one in 1999 and had loads in 2001 and was asked to clear debt in N&W where I still had 100% stock so quick takeover and did it in 2003. Thought this gave me Gold but message moved me on to NYC. When I left it I had 100% - now I had 10% and although I'd tons of cash I couldn't buy enough to take it over and failed. Restart and placed some rail in Iowa - still couldn't take it over.

Restart from N&W and completed that again and this time I got Seaboard where I'd 100% and did that by 2007 still didn't get Medal (what would I have got Silver or Gold the message isn't clear - am I just playing on for Super Gold or something?). Anyway I was told to take over anyone so chose a 100%er with loads of high debt which again was an easy clear and then (and finally?) was asked to do Balt and Ohio - I only had 8% of this so had to use all my cash to take me over 10% and the shareholders turned me down so a restart and did same but then placed track in Iowa and tried again. Still turned down - and thats where I gave up

[Orange46]

If you have 3 or more medal points, just go to Iowa or select to get your medal when you fix the next RR.

[belbincolne]

Did that and got Gold so no problems with the scenario as far as I was concerned - although it took a heck of a long time - now its one of the other new scenarios as soon as the good weather we're having here finishes.

[Orange46]

Warning to All - this is a long scenario. Think about it, you build 12 railroads. My games went from 1829 to at least 1950, and usually longer. But, for most of the game, you are not managing a lot of trains.